<p>sakky, you are making huge generalizations. I don’t think its fair to say that most engineering firms refuse to offer opportunities to develop your career. Also, when you say that engineering is good for average students, you are once again making a huge generalization. I don’t care if over 50% of Harvard grads work on wall street. We are talking about Harvard! Half of their parents are probably investment bankers!</p>
<p>Listen, I agree that some business grads have more earning power than engineers, but as I said, if you are counting investment bankers or management consultants, this is an extremely small percentage. Much smaller than you are making it out to be. If we don’t consider the top 10 or even 20 business schools in the country, we are still talking about 99% of business grads as there are literally thousands of higher education institutions in this country.</p>
<p>Moreover, it’s not accurate to say that if you are above an average student that engineering is not a smart career choice. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Other careers always sound like they are so much better until you realize that they are not all they are cracked up to be.</p>
<p>I think the OP hit the nail on the head. Most engineering students I know chose engineering chose engineering because of the misconception that engineers make a lot of money. Our starting salaries are higher and there seem to be more entry level positions available for graduates so that’s probably well that misconception came from. Also a significant amount of my classmates do not intend on being engineers at all -including myself. They have aspirations to attend law and medical schools or transition to business. </p>
<p>I believe we try to appeal to younger students (K-12) by showing them cool “bill nye the science guy” experiments. Making rockets, building structures with straw, etc. Instead, we need to show them the thick books of transport phenomena, heat transfer, thermodynamics, and fluids they will have to learn.</p>
<p>Some of those folks from humble roots may surprise you, if your mind is open to being surprised. I worked with people with degrees from… nowhere, literally, who were more than competent.</p>
<p>If travel is what you want, put “willing to travel” on your resume. I did not do that, yet I traveled a lot - more than a family person would want to do.</p>
<p>Treetopleaf, sorry - I do have a pretty negative view of cal poly SLO students primarily because I had to deal with this ridiculous character during one of my internships. He thought he was better than everyone for some reason. And ironically, my friends from college also had issues with SLO interns in their respective internships. I know I’m not being open-minded, or even rational at all, but damn, I sure do dislike cal poly grads lol. </p>
<p>I think the bigger point I was making though was…why work so hard to get a degree from Stanford/Berkeley/MIT, pay $40,000 a year in tuition, suffer through a ruthless and unbearable workload, if the end-game is just to work at a standard $50,000-$60,000 job that any cal poly student can get as well. I know the cal poly student COULD be just as bright as the MIT student, but regardless – if the cal poly student can get the same job that i’m competing for, then I feel like I’m not getting the most out of my degree…I would have just gone to cal poly also then, and have a much better time completing my degree.</p>
<p>I found myself wanting to disagree with a lot of what Sakky wrote but I have to admit that a lot of what he writes rings true in my view. I was a CIS major which is a bunch of business courses and a few programming courses and had jobs at corporate, enjoyed traveling and working in a wide variety of business contexts. I moved over to engineering later on and the variety was great in the beginning (travel, project leader, etc.) but I settled into a role player after that so that there’s not as much variety and excitement. That was okay because I transitioned into a time when my family demands grew considerably.</p>
<p>no LongPrime, i dont think i’m being that irrational with what you referenced ---- I meant im obviously being irrational because i dislike cal poly SLO students based off a bad experience with one of them during an internship</p>
<p>I never said that. What I said is that most engineering firms do not offer opportunities comparable to those available at the top consulting or finance firms. Again, I reference you to the haunting words of Nicholas Pearce:</p>
<p>Even at M.I.T., the U.S.'s premier engineering school, the traditional career path has lost its appeal for some students. Says junior Nicholas Pearce, a chemical-engineering major from Chicago: “It’s marketed as–I don’t want to say dead end but sort of ‘O.K., here’s your role, here’s your lab, here’s what you’re going to be working on.’ Even if it’s a really cool product, you’re locked into it.” Like Gao, Pearce is leaning toward consulting. “If you’re an M.I.T. grad and you’re going to get paid $50,000 to work in a cubicle all day–as opposed to $60,000 in a team setting, plus a bonus, plus this, plus that–it seems like a no-brainer.”</p>
<p>Actually, in this case, we are talking about schools comparable to Harvard. Such as MIT. Such as Stanford - grdschoolhopeful’s school. Nearly half of all MIT students who entered the workforce in the last few years took jobs in consulting or finance. </p>
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<p>I have always stated explicitly that engineering is a strong career choice for most Americans, as most Americans are average students at average schools. </p>
<p>But the CC reader population does not consist of average Americans. The number of postings within the MIT or Stanford subsection of CC vastly exceeds that of a given average school, if such a subsection even exists at all. CC doesn’t even have a subsection for Arkansas State. </p>
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<p>Nobody is arguing that consulting and banking are perfect industries. However, the trend is quite clear: many of the best engineering students aspire to become consultants or financiers, but few of the best business/management students aspire to become engineers. </p>
<p>Consider Ankur Luthra, arguably Berkeley’s best engineering graduate in recent memory, having won both the University Medal (equivalent to the valedictorianship) and being Berkeley’s first Rhodes Scholar since the 1980’s. He never worked as an actual full-time engineer, but rather, after earning his Rhodes MSCS at Oxford, earned his MBA at Harvard Business School and became a venture capitalist. </p>
<p>Again, the perennial unanswered question is, as always, why can’t engineering companies provide comparable career opportunities? Yet as long as they don’t, then the most talented people will continue to migrate away from engineering and towards other professions. Sad but true.</p>
<p>If only we can get engineers (actually all college grads) to think more entrepreneurial rather than to working for wages. </p>
<p>I imagine that many engineers go into financials because it is way to become a entrepreneur. I personally find that most business majors are not very business minded.</p>
<p>It’s those sale out fault that they weren’t able to see the potential of implementing & creating. They only saw $$$$$$$$$$$$$, prostitution of talent is only get them so far in this economy. Now these are the true innovators>> [url=<a href=“http://nextstep.com/index.php/reports/report-video/14-videoreport/72-techshop]TechShop[/url”>http://nextstep.com/index.php/reports/report-video/14-videoreport/72-techshop]TechShop[/url</a>] and there not even engineers. I saw another techshop video on some other financial segment and a guy came up with a stethoscope that hears the rhythm of flowing electrons in gadgets like a beating heart. These amateurs see the potential, those sale out see $$$.</p>
<p>I think an MBA would be a good route. We had an engineer that went for an MBA (the company paid for it) and then went into consulting for several years. I only found out today that he tried to get back into engineering two years ago through mutual friends.</p>
<p>His consulting gig required a tremendous amount of traveling (he went to other cities for
a week at a time) and he had a baby when I last saw him. My guess is that he wanted
to spend time with his family.</p>
<p>"I think the bigger point I was making though was…why work so hard to get a degree from Stanford/Berkeley/MIT, pay $40,000 a year in tuition, suffer through a ruthless and unbearable workload, if the end-game is just to work at a standard $50,000-$60,000 job that any cal poly student can get as well. I know the cal poly student COULD be just as bright as the MIT student, but regardless – if the cal poly student can get the same job that i’m competing for, then I feel like I’m not getting the most out of my degree…I would have just gone to cal poly also then, and have a much better time completing my degree. "</p>
<p>Thats my thought exactly! Why on earth would I put myself through hell at MIT (I’m not getting into there but whatever) when I can have the same job earnings at some lower ranked college (assuming I go to engineering and not consulting)? I mean this scenario pays off to be a “slacker”. So all those who enjoy life will do just as well me… who busts my butt all day. It makes no sense! As far as I can see I should enjoy life and not put so much effort into getting into some top ranked college. It will only get me bragging rights. I don’t think bragging rights is worth the work I’m forcing myself through.</p>
<p>For pursuing a career in banking/consulting with just an B.S. in engineering, it’s my impression that you need to graduate from a top 25 school, if not top 10. elite management consulting firms, such as mckinsey, bain, BCG, etc, only recruit undergraduates from elite schools. </p>
<p>obviously getting an MBA is always an option as well, but the traditional path to getting an MBA is working a couple years in industry after graduating from your undergrad, and THEN applying for business school. it’s very unlikely that you’ll be able to go to B-school right after undergrad</p>
<p>GoOakland, if you are only planning to go into engineering for your future, and you’re sure about it, then yes, I would say you don’t really need to focus on attending a top-ranked school. However, the higher ranked the better…it never hurts…you’ll have more opportunities usually, and job interviews might be slightly easier to come by.</p>