Hunting a brilliant small college

College Search & Selection
21

<p>Though it's not in the Southeast, Smith College is brilliant. Smith is a wonderful place and is known for small classes, academic excellence, terrific advising and mentoring, and available, committed professors. It has a real sense of community, and an open curriculum which gives you lots of room to explore your interests. And, the opportunity to attend a top grad school if you do well at Smith.</p>

<p>Smith is part of a 5-college consortium (with Amherst, Hampshire, Mt. Holyoke and Univ of Mass). You can take classes at any. There is a free shuttle bus to get to classes and activities at the other campuses. So you get the best of both worlds.</p>

22

<p>To generalize, many higher quality schools don't offer a 'business' undergraduate degree. So don't overlook schools because of it. I don't think it will be as highly regarded as other degrees for ivies etc. And of course a serious and demanding undergrad school or department will be considered equally or likely with more weight along with gpa for grad school. </p>

<p>For example, there is a widely read paper out by a grad student or prof (not sure) at Carnegie Mellon's (top rated) Computer Science PhD program, that states that a 3.3 at a school with a highly regarded undergraduate department would be considered with the same weight as a 3.8 from another school.</p>

<p>At schools like Brown U, for example, most Business minded people will get an Econ degree. But they also have a sort-of business degree in the Commerce, Organizations and Entrepreneurship program which is rather multi-disciplinary.</p>

<p>You don't say what degree you are interested in for grad school, but can we assume a MBA? I'm not sure because no one would say only Ivies if looking for top MBA schools. If that's so, then what you need is a great school for undergrad that has businesses come calling at recruiting time. Then you need some 5 or 6 years <em>at least</em> of stellar work experience. I know a guy who is going to University of Chicago's (top rated) MBA program. His undergrad was in Electrical Engineering at Princeton. But he was recruited into businessin a management training program at a tech firm. Yes, his undergrad degree helped him get the job. Did he have an easy time getting top grades? of course not! that is too transparent of a strategy.</p>

23

<p>Hi,
-Gadad, let me say I'm looking for a conservative but non-Christian/non-religious school. Lots of homeschoolers do go for Christian schools, especially in the Bible belt where I'm from; I just happen to not be one of them.
-Consolation, I've PMed you an answer - hope you get it, my computer kicked me off when I tried to send it! Great question. Yes I did take the SAT IIs.</p>

<p>And since someone else was asking about my SAT scores, here's the list:
SAT I - 740W, 730CR, 600M. You can imagine, I'm kicking myself for not taking advanced math, calculus or trig in high school. If I'd pressured my mom she'dve let me but.......
SAT II - 500 Math I, 520 Physics, 620 US History. Bleh average.</p>

<p>BrownParent, can you explain your first paragraph a little more? If I understand rightly, you're saying a business degree from X college would not be as welcome to grad schools as an economics degree from X college?<br>
And you're saying that an Economics undergrad degree will prepare you for an MBA as well and better than a BBA will? (just double checking.)
Yes, I was thinking MBA. I'm not restricting myself to only ivies for grad school but I want to have a chance for them, you know? Don't want to make a wrong turn now and limit myself later...
And you're saying that before I think about grad school I should get 5 to 6 years of work experience? And have an undergrad degree that's more practical? </p>

<p>And how did people ever learn about colleges before internet forums??? : )
~Grace</p>

24

<p>Of course take everything I say with a grain of salt, I'm sure there are more informed parents out there. My experience just comes with going through the college process (dd was at a small private boarding school with pretty good advising), and from working at a major US bank in a major US city, as well as from knowing other people who went into business from differing backgrounds, and from CC, of course!</p>

<p>Most everything I read and hear, is that you want to get into the best possible college that suits you, that is affordable for you.</p>

<p>What I am trying to say is this:</p>

<p>o - school rankings for grad schools are not necessarily aligned with undergrad rankings. most often not. There are several very top ranked MBA programs that are not Ivy, so (since Ivy designates a football conference) Ivy has no meaning in this context. Non Ivy top schools include U of Chicago, Northwestern, Berkeley, Stanford among others. Anyone planning to get an MBA should be planning to get into a top ranked national or regional program in order for the payoff to be worth it.</p>

<p>o- only reputable MBA programs will accept you into the program unless you have a lot of quality work experience. 5 to 6 years is absolute minimum and not typical.</p>

<p>o- very often, an undergraduate Business degree is just for someone who want to get out into the workplace. Many, many top rated undergraduate schools do not offer a Business undergraduate degree. Many business skills are learned on the job. The college is educating you to be a more critical thinker who can rise to many occasions, rather than a trained pre-professional. </p>

<p>o- I do not think business programs in general are well regarded at top grad schools. Exceptions are likely the very, very best undergrad programs. And perhaps people who specialize in accounting or finance and have gone on into management. Having hard technical chops such as engineering, computer science etc are excellent bases for business people who plan to manage others in those fields. Someone who just did a survey type degree with one marketing class, one programming class, one banking class, and all will be weak in comparison.</p>

<p>Wrong turn and limit yourself? I would never have let my daughter do a business undergrad degree as I think that is extremely limiting. I even go as far as to consider it vocational and not encouraging of a brilliant career. I do think it services some people who are focused on specific things. And I know some people who went to decent state college who started their own small businesses that they are happy and successful with. That is not to slight anyone who chose this path, cause not everyone has the opportunities that you and my daughter do. I won't mind if she does an MBA down the line, if that's where she gravitates to.</p>

<p>I think your lack of calc or even pre-calc might be a bit of a liability, as well as the scores for some reachy schools, but you should have a shot at some really good schools. Put some reaches in there. Don't blow off a great rated school, unless you really feel you can't do the work. Your homeschool background may be interesting diversity to schools. Good luck!</p>

25

<p>I agree with BrownParent. I was faced with a similar dilemna when I was an undergrad and my father highly recommended that I study business in grad school and focus on a Liberal Arts education as an undergrad.</p>

26

<p>A third vote with Alexandre and BrownParent - I just left a similar message for a student on another thread who is weighing an Ivy-type education and pre-Pharmacy. And Richmond and Smith are certainly nice suggestions as well for the type of ambience you're describing.</p>

27

<p>Since the original poster wrote that she wants a conservative Southern school, Smith should not be considered as it is one of the most liberal schools in the nation. Also, as math is the weakest of the OP's tested subject areas, elite economics programs may be a bit much when considering the transition from homeschooling to college.
The Univ. of Alabama's Honors College may work, even though on the campus of a large state school, as the OP will qualify for a significant merit scholarship if she applies now. Conservative, super clean cut, amazing honors student housing & many "familiar" faces will make the transition easier.
Alabama, Wofford College, Furman University & the Univ. of Richmond should all be very welcoming environments to which the OP should easily adjust to while continuing to grow. Alabama offers a residential living community that makes the school even more family like than does the Honors College & she can be in both (but will sacrifice the luxurious honor's housing to be in the residential college).
Flagler College in Florida (on the beach in beautiful & historic St. Augustine) also should be considered. Very small, family like & business school oriented, along with other majors.</p>

28

<p>Rollins College in Winter Park. Small LAC, many years at the top of the regional USNews rankings for the Southeast for LAC's/U's with Masters Degree programs. Strong business department, and the Crummer School of Business ranks high on the MBA rankings for such a small school. Has a party rep BUT if you are there to learn you can get a great education. They do have MANY go onto med school, law school, business school. Not cheap but good merit aid esp with your scores. Kids/parents love it or hate it. You'll get all sorts of feedback. But there are alot folks with successful careers in business/law/medicine who graduated from Rollins. As well as successful careers in academics, the arts, english etc.</p>

29

<p>OK! All this is really helpful to me. </p>

<p>To switch gears a bit - what does everyone think of Sweet Briar College compared to, say, Davidson, Emory, or Washington & Lee? It has very high rankings, for what that's worth and still suits me best of all the websites I've seen (groan, I know, no substitute for a real college visit but I live overseas!). What has everyone heard about Sweet Briar? Would it suit the purposes I've laid out here, do you think?</p>

30

<p>OP, your SATIs are nice, but your SATIIs look like a potential problem for the most selective shools. My understanding is that those schools want the SATIIs to validate the homeschool curriculum. Your top grades in that curriculum aren't going to look particularly valid when accompanied by scores in the low 500s. I'm not sure what you can do about that, other than look at SAT-optional schools, or try to take another SATII--or even 2 more--in subjects where you are stronger than math and physics. (The Math exam you chose has a particularly unfavorable curve, according to conventional wisdom.) You still have time to do so, I believe, and get the scores in for RD consideration. I would only do this if you are certain that you could at least break 600. For the kind of school you want, 700 would be better. I'd suggest getting the prep book in a couple of your strongest subjects--English?--and taking a practice test using real time constraints, then scoring yourself. If you are within a reasonable range of your target score--above 600--then register for the exam(s) and devote significant time to prep.</p>

<p>Although schools <em>say</em> that they want the SATIIs for homeschoolers for this reason, in practical terms I do not know what kind of score they consider adequate. I do know that if <em>I</em> were an ad com at a highly selective school where students typically presented with SATs in your range, plus a good GPA in a rigorous curriculum and strong SATIIs, and I looked at your record and your scores, I would conclude that you are a bright girl who has not received a strong education to date. I would worry whether you would be able to keep up.</p>

<p>Another strategy would be to make sure you have suitable safety schools on your list: schools that have a solid reputation and offer a good liberal arts education but are a bit easier to get into. For example, you might want to consider The College of Wooster in addition to reachier places like Davidson. I think that you should also look at some of the women's colleges, specifically Mt Holyoke and Smith, although be prepared for a decidedly non-conservative atmosphere. <g> </g></p>

<p>BTW, I also agree with Brownparent.</p>

31

<p>OK! All this is really helpful to me. </p>

<p>To switch gears a bit - what does everyone think of Sweet Briar College compared to, say, Davidson, Emory, or Washington & Lee? It has very high rankings, for what that's worth and still suits me best of all the websites I've seen (groan, I know, no substitute for a real college visit but I live overseas!). What has everyone heard about Sweet Briar? Would it suit the purposes I've laid out here, do you think?</p>

32

<p>I find it mildly astounding that parents are suggesting Smith College for a staunchly conservative homeschooled student from the Bible Belt. This has to be some sort of a cruel joke, or the posters have not read all the posts in this thread. Smith College is a very, very, very liberal school with a significant & dominating lesbian contingent--although posters will argue that the school is only 25% lesbian. Please don't waste your time--especially if you are pro-life Northhampton, Mass. is not the place to be unless you enjoy abuse. Mt. Holyoke is very gay/lesbian/transgender /queer friendly also--but not as in your face militant as is Smith College.
Smith College is the radical left's equivalent of the fundamentalist right's Bob Jones University.</p>

<p>Sweet Briar College may be an excellent choice for the OP, especially if you enjoy horseback riding.</p>

33

<p>Also I think that the posts suggesting that top MBA programs expect at least 5 or 6 years work experience after undergraduate school are incorrect. Executive MBA Programs--typically paid 100% by the employer, but not always--require 5 years work experience. Most top MBA programs want two years work experience after college.</p>

34

<p>Ironically, OP's more conservative worldview would probably be welcomed by admissions committees at most LACs. Students at these schools often complain about the lack of diverse political views. If OP doesn't mind being in a minority position, she would have a lot to contribute to the intellectual life of these campuses and I think that admissions would probably welcome her. Nor is she likely to be alone: All LACs have conservative students-but they are often a silent minority. I should also add that some LACs are more welcoming of diverse political views than others, as a matter of school culture.</p>

35

<p>ColdWind, although I fully agree that Smith and MH could be culture shock to the OP--and said so in my post--I really think that you are grossly overstating the case when you equate Smith and Bob Jones University. The OP, like most students, will probably have to make compromises to find a college that offers what she wants that she can a) get into and b) afford, and the degree of conservatism at a school may be one of them. Besides that, we have no particular evidence that the OP is "a staunchly conservative student from the Bible Belt." She said that she doesn't want a religious school, although she would like a conservative one, and that she lives overseas. Let's not project too many assumptions upon her. </p>

<p>OP, I think that Sweet Briar's small size and comparatively sheltered environment might be a good thing for someone who has been homeschooled. On the other hand, you say that you are living overseas, and we have no idea of the breadth of your exposure to other cultures, urban or rural environments, etc. You might find a school like Sweet Briar a bit too isolated and "white bread." I am also uncertain of how Sweet Briar would be viewed by grad programs and potential employers. The old image of Sweet Briar as a school for well-to-do girls with horses may or may not be out of date, and it may or may not work against you in the business world. Have you looked at Agnes Scott College?</p>

<p>I know of a kid who went to Washington & Lee looking for a more conservative environment. (This is all through his mother.) After a year, he almost left because of (his perception) the pervasiveness of the drunken fratboy scene, and because of the narrow and frankly prejudiced mindset that went with it in many cases. He decided to stay, and has reportedly devoted himself with some success to making his frat more open to non-stereotypical members. The daughter of the same family went to Smith--she thought Wellesley was "too feminist"-- and loves it. You might want to check out the individual school forums here for advice from those who are up to date on the schools that interest you.</p>

36

<p>Agree with the above post re: Washington & Lee. Am sticking to my comparison of Smith's far left position as the equivalent of Bob Jones University's far right position; with the common factor being intolerance for opposing viewpoints on social issues. Try to announce that you are a pro-life, anti gay rights, conservative Republican at Smith & see what happens. Interesting comment re: Wellesley as I just had a student transfer to NYU because Wellesley was not liberal enough. And I know several current Wellesley students that are typical Northeastern non-activist liberals. Wellesley is much more centrist than Smith.
Mt. Holyoke is much more toward the center--although not centrist--than is Smith.</p>

<p>The OP specified that she wants a conservative environment at school.</p>

<p>Post #35: The OP wrote this in her Post #23 & also PMed me and shared that she is staunchly conservative & from the bible belt.
And I believe that she can find everything that she is looking for in a school--no compromises necessary.</p>

37

<p>Sweet Briar might be a good choice and might suit the OP's needs very well, but I do not quite see how it could reasonably be compared in academic or social terms to Emory, W and L, or Davidson. While those three schools are not necessarily similar to each other, collectively they simply seem to be in a different league from Sweet Briar (same image comes to my mind as a previous poster described) numerically and historically--just seems like apples and oranges to me, with the three aforementioned schools potentially somewhat daunting in this instance. </p>

<p>Perhaps paradoxically, I think Mount Holyoke, although far from the South, sounds like a better bet among the nationally known top-rated schools--its larger number of international students, some from rather conservative cultures/societies, might be a benefit in this case in the sense of exposing the OP to a more varied yet very nurturing sociocultural setting. The low SAT II scores will still be a concern but maybe not as much as for the coed southern schools.</p>

38

<p>From everything I've seen and heard, I think Sweet Briar is a fine school that provides an excellent undergraduate education. As is usually the case, if you do well academically and take advantage of all its resources, you will have no problem going into a competitive graduate or professional program from there. </p>

<p>I'm not sure how one could accurately compare it to Davidson, Emory, and W&L since they are all quite different in a number of ways, with differing points of emphasis. It's hard for anyone here to say which one is best for you because that's a subjective matter. They do have different levels of notoriety, but if it's a brand name you are looking for there are better choices than all of them. What's most important is that you can become highly successful, in equal measure, from any of these as a starting point. The lurking variable is which one resonates most with your specific tastes, interests, and needs? Which components of the college experience is really most important to you?</p>

39

<p>Davidson is what I thought of immediately.</p>

40

<p>Okay, ColdWind, I see your point. I was going only by what the OP publicly stated.</p>

<p>I actually think that Wellesley may well be "more feminist" than Smith in the sense of empowering women to compete in the professions and the business world: certainly it was in the past. W has always had female presidents, for example, while Smith got their first one in the 1970s; W has for a long time sent a high % of grads to professional schools, and so forth. On the other hand, Wellesley women are certainly not uniformly liberal politically.</p>

<p>Wellesley tends to have quite a lot of international students. Maybe the OP should take a look. (I don't know how they would view the SATIIs or the curricula that the OP has used as a homeschooler. I have the feeling that schools like Furman, Rhodes, and the University of Richmond would be more familiar with them.)</p>

<p>(Full disclosure: I am a W grad of the staunchly feminist/secular/pro-choice/pro-gay-rights variety. :) )</p>