<p>US News and World Report is not the only source which ranks colleges! Here is a recent article highlighting HWS's excellent standings in the rankings by various institutions, which include the school's commitment to service and the study abroad programs:</p>
<p>Hobart</a> and William Smith Colleges - Daily Updates</p>
<p>^^^ Are the HWS study abroad the traditional semester and year-long programs, or primarily the short-term (3wks in Jan or May) programs that are gaining popularity?</p>
<p>HWS study abroad programs are generally for the semester. Although it is possible to go away for a full year if desired. Most students go for the semester; fall or spring. I graduated from HWS several years ago. I went abroad for the spring semester. HWS is known for a large percentage of students participating in the study abroad experience.</p>
<p>It is good to see that other rankings are being made for HWS besides US News, which can never give an accurate portrayal of the quality of education that HWS offers. From comparing my experiences at HWS several years ago to friends who went to other colleges, I truly feel that HWS offers an education that is on par or better than many other schools higher ranked by US News.</p>
<p>For people not familiar with HWS, here is a posting of a summary/review by the online source “The Quick Overview by Campus Quick Looks” of a description of HWS from circa 2007 that is similar to the review style of the Princeton Review: </p>
<p>HWS:
Two small colleges combine to make big opportunities at Hobart and William Smith Colleges. HWS places an emphasis on interdisciplinary study, close student-faculty relationships, and student leadership and athletics.</p>
<p>History, Mission, and Geography:</p>
<p>Hobart and William Smith Colleges began as completely separate institutions. Hobart College (for men) was founded in 1822 and William Smith College (for women) began in 1908. Over time, the proximity of the campuses and reduced opposition to co-education caused the colleges to naturally begin to share resources, faculty, and facilities. By 1941, co-educational classes were the norm at HWS. Today, Hobart and William Smith Colleges remain an interesting combination of separation and unification. Men receive their degrees from Hobart and women from William Smith. Every club, organization, and committee has a leader or representative from Hobart and one from William Smith. Hobart and William Smith have separate Academic Deans and Athletics Departments, but the same admissions office, housing, classes, and faculty. Located in Geneva, NY, the colleges are about an hour away from Rochester and Syracuse, two hours from Buffalo, and five hours from New York City. The beautiful, spacious campus sits right on the shores of Seneca Lake in the heart of New York’s Finger Lakes region.</p>
<p>Academics:</p>
<p>Liberal arts are alive and well at HWS—a school with a longstanding tradition of interdisciplinary study. All students are required to complete a major and a minor or two majors in order to graduate. Additionally, one of these areas of study must be disciplinary (like biology, dance, or history) and one area must be interdisciplinary (like international studies, environmental science, or public service). </p>
<p>Other college requirements focus on breadth of Campus Quick Looks
Hobart and William Smith Colleges study; that is, there are no specific courses that all students must take but instead, their course selection must fulfill eight particular goals. As one faculty member said, “We hate distribution requirements—these goals are very different.” Students feel there is enough variety within the goals to ensure everyone is able to easily complete the requirements while taking classes they enjoy. All freshmen are paired with faculty advisors and small seminar groups during their first semester to ensure a personal approach and immediate connections between students and faculty.</p>
<p>Distinctive programs at HWS include the variety of interdisciplinary programs and unique majors and minors. Where else could you minor not just in Women’s Studies, but in Men’s Studies? How many other liberal arts colleges offer Architectural Studies?
In addition, there is an emphasis on life experience as well; students are strongly encouraged to participate in internships and study abroad programs. In fact, HWS provides more than 30 different study abroad options—an unheard of amount for such a small college. Service learning is a popular option at HWS as well—even faculty members are encouraged to participate. For example, faculty members were allowed 90 days of paid leave to aid the relief efforts after Hurricane Katrina. Service learning projects are offered as part of first year orientation and several ‘alternative,’ service-oriented, spring break trips are also planned each year.</p>
<p>Student Body:
One benefit of the Hobart and William Smith Colleges partnership is that there are twice as many opportunities for leadership on campus. Each college has its own student government and each club on campus has an equal number of leaders representing each school. Club options are limitless and range from the Flying Squirrels (ultimate Frisbee team) to a cappella singing to paintball and glass blowing. Students are encouraged to start new clubs if their area of interest isn’t already represented. Some people describe the students as sporty and this is true—more than 75% of the students here participate in some kind of club or varsity team.
One academic Dean says that “though the faculty are pretty liberal, the students here are more moderate politically.” Students come mostly from the Northeast—46% are New York residents and an additional 30% hail from New England. Twelve percent of students identify themselves as students of color and/or international students. Though hoping to improve on these numbers, HWS is happy to announce that they are closer on the gender balance than most other small liberal arts institutions at 46% male, 54% female. Additionally, HWS is known for being generous with scholarships and financial aid—nearly 80% of the student body receives financial assistance.</p>
<p>Campus and Residential Life:
Surrounded by vineyards, the Finger Lakes, and farmland, Geneva, NY is home to Seneca Lake and Hobart and William Smith Colleges are on prime lakefront property. The two college campuses blend together to form one amazing landscape—this is a gorgeous place with incredible facilities. New construction on campus has enhanced the already impressive layout with new wireless residence halls, new academic buildings, and there’s a new field house renovation and turf football field on the way. Residence halls include a variety of options from traditional to apartment housing and from coeducational to single-sex options. </p>
<p>Dining Hall:
Students rave about the dining options—Saga, the catering company of choice for many colleges and now a part of the Marriott Corporation, was actually founded by HWS alumni, who began operating the school’s cafeteria while they were undergraduates.</p>
<p>Entertainment:
Students love that HWS brings entertainment and speakers to campus. Recent guests include the Black-Eyed Peas and Al Gore, among others. Though urban dwellers may find Geneva, NY to be too rural for their tastes, the tourist attractions, history, and culture of the area are appealing to many. One student from Denver, Colorado, comments that Geneva is “the perfect college town.” Students who find the campus or location too small take advantage of the many exchange and study abroad programs the college offers—“there is always a way to get out there and experience more of the world, if necessary,” says one student.</p>
<p>Athletics:</p>
<p>HWS is the place to be for quality sports. The Hobart Statesmen and the William Smith Herons each field 11 varsity Division III teams; the one exception is the Hobart Lacrosse team which is the lone Division I sport on campus. The athletic facilities rival that of any Division I school—because of the nature of the two separate institutions there are twice the facilities of most small colleges. Varsity athletes have their own field house with training and workout facilities and non-varsity athletes have separate facilities to enjoy. The Athletic Director comments that this “takes the pressure off” the general fitness area and allows all students to experience less wait-time for machines and less wear and tear on the facilities as a whole. Each varsity team has its own team room with a cubby area for each individual athlete—definitely an upgrade from your standard D3 locker room! HWS teams play in the Liberty League competing against fellow NY teams like Hamilton, Skidmore, Rochester, Union, and Clarkson. Students who enjoy playing sports on any level will appreciate the athletic spirit, facilities, and support on the HWS campus.</p>
<p>The College in a Nutshell:</p>
<p>Hobart and William Smith Colleges have blended together to offer the best of all worlds. They offer single-sex leadership and academic attention with coeducational classes and socializing. HWS has a beautiful lakefront campus rich in history but with new facilities and opportunities to enrich one’s education with time abroad or hands-on learning. HWS is putting itself on the map—as one of the most recent schools to drop the standardized test requirement in the admissions process, expect more and more people to “discover” all that HWS has to offer.</p>
<p>Also, </p>
<p>Here are some notable alumni from HWS: <a href=“http://web.hws.edu/alumni/remarkable/[/url]”>http://web.hws.edu/alumni/remarkable/</a> and </p>
<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart_and_William_Smith_Colleges[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart_and_William_Smith_Colleges</a></p>
<p>Hope this helps for those interested/questions about Hobart and William Smith.</p>
<p>“I truly feel that HWS offers an education that is on par or better than many other schools higher ranked by US News.”</p>
<p>Different students often need different environments to succeed, so precisely what constitutes “better” is a fluid concept. D2 who cosidering HWS, would not be prepared for the rigorous curric of D1’s USN&WR top 20 LAC, and if admitted (perhaps becasue of a legacy boos), D2 would struggle and definitely have difficulty graduating. I am certain, therefore, that of the two schools, HWS will provide D2 the better education; it does not follow, however, that HWS would provide a better education for D1 (who has a much stronge academic profile than her younger sib).</p>
<p>nyc, I understand your point: you want your daughter #2 to succeed at whatever college she attends, so an extremely rigorous curriculum of a US News top 20 LAC would not do her any favors. Perhaps there needs to be some clarification. mattJastin6 has posted on another thread which you may not have seen: “There are some very bright and hardworking students at HWS. I had friends who chose Hobart and William Smith over Cornell, Georgetown, Boston College, Colby, and Dartmouth, just to name a few.” His point is that you can get an excellent education at HWS. Students who obviously were capable of handling a more competitive curriculum, nevertheless chose HWS and made the best use of their decision. I firmly believe that college is what you make of it. There are achievers and there are slackers; you’ll find both kinds at Harvard and at Podunk State. I think that’s the point he’s making.</p>
<p>mattJastn6, I like your #5 post. It gives a good flavor of the school.</p>
<p>“There are some very bright and hardworking students at HWS. I had friends who chose Hobart and William Smith over Cornell, Georgetown, Boston College, Colby, and Dartmouth, just to name a few.”</p>
<p>Yes, I did read that post. And I know that not only are there bright, hard-working students on every campus, but also that every year some students who could have attended top tier colleges/unis will opt for “lesser” schools (merit $$ being one, but by no means the only or primary considertion). </p>
<p>But the presence of a handful of Cornell-G’town-Colby-Dartmouth caliber students does not mean that the non-Cornell-G’town-Colby-Dartmouth school generally (or by some objective measure) povides an education that is “on par with or better than” Cornell, G’town, Colby or Dartmouth. I just think one should be careful about making over-statements in support of one’s school.</p>
<p>(I recall reading in CTCL, that Clark was such a diverse school that a boy from NYC met his first openly-gay student when he toured Clark. Now that may be true story, but what it suggests about the relative diversity of Clark and NYC Manhattan is, at best, a HUGE over-statement.)</p>
<p>nyc, </p>
<p>Education is what you make of it; there are educational opportunities at HWS that are on par or better than at higher ranked schools. This statement has nothing to do with your daughters, or which school they prefer. I think that you should be careful in making an overstatement when you are generalizing comparisons between schools based on US news rankings. You seem to not understand that the point I was making was that the teachings in the classroom setting cannot be accurately measured by US News. Perhaps you should do a little research into the study abroad programs at HWS, the qualifications of the professors, and the speakers who come to campus. Top quality. The students are also more intelligent than what you are giving them credit. You should also do some research into finding how successful HWS grads are after they graduate. HWS provides a top notch education. </p>
<p>I think that perhaps you should be careful in writing a post negatively about a school you really dont know much about. In previous posts, you were asking about HWS study abroad programs. You knew nothing about them. You were also asking about if a student needs a car. Its ok, this was also a very important question of mine (not really). The education, the opportunties, and the professional schools where graduates attend were important to me. Not whether I need a car. But you were concerned if a car was needed. </p>
<p>I write a nice post to try to help you out; then you get all negative. Perhaps you should choose a different school. There are many other applicants that will choose HWS and they will get an education that is better than higher ranked schools. They also may have cars, some of them very nice cars indeed, and drive them. And when they graduate and get a great job due to the top notch education they received from HWS, they will buy even nicer cars. Beamers and Benz. Plain and simple.</p>
<p>mattJ, I understand your point, I just disagree with you. </p>
<p>Preliminarily, I never suggested that USN&WR ranking was dispositive - - it is, however, a data point. You are entitled to give that data point the weight you think it deserves, as am I. (I suspect, however, that I were to suggest Alfred U and HWS were peer schools, the first evidence offered to rebut that proposition would be the rankings.) </p>
<p>Regarding the quality of education, you imply that only one who has first-hand classroom experience is qualified to assess an schools “educational value.” If that is the case, you have no ligitimate basis to opine that “HWS offers an education that is on par or better than many other schools higher ranked by US News” - - unless you have first-hand classroom experience at those higher-ranked schools. </p>
<p>FWIW, I don’t doubt for a minute that HWS has a program or two that is stronger than correspoinding offerings at some higher ranked colleges. I suspect, however, that this is true generally and not unique to HWS. (Likewise, there are probably lower-ranked schools that have a couple of programs stronger than HWS’s.) </p>
<p>But, do I think that HWS “offers an education on par” with Dartmouth, Cornell, et al - - no I don’t. Nor do I believe that St. Leo’s in FL offers an education on par with HWS. I don’t consider either statement to be “negative” - - any more than my statement that D1 is a stronger student than D2. </p>
<p>As for study abroad, I have investigated enough to know that colleges are turning increasingly to 3-4 week extra-fee programs. Perhaps you are unaware fo this change. </p>
<p>Finally - - the car. College is not just about academics. Parent posters are often concerned with social fit and frequently ask questions regarding any number of non-academic issues, including, whether students need a car. If that was not an issue for you - - fine, but there’s no need to denigrate another applicant family’s concerns, or suggest that I consider that to be the most important factor in anyone’s college selection.</p>
<p>Just as I think the overstatement is unnecessary, so too are the snide comments and personal attacks.</p>
<p>nyc, </p>
<p>Lets clarify some things.
I never said that HWS provided a better edu than the above schools you mentioned. So, you are distorting the facts. I said that I “truly believe that HWS provides an education that is on par or better than many other schools ranked higher by US news.” I am entitled to do this. Don’t tell me that I am making overstatements, because I am not. </p>
<p>You are saying that I cannot make this statement due to my lack of experience. I am saying that you have less experience than myself. In fact, it appears your knowledge of colleges comes from posting on these message boards. </p>
<p>I spent four years at HWS. I know students who transferred into HWS from better ranked schools, and said that they prefered many of the professors at HWS to other schools. I also know from my experiences abroad, and interacting with students from other schools, that the caliber of students at HWS are very similar to students at many higher ranked schools. I also know that the education I received at HWS allows me to interact with students from high reputation schools. I also know that HWS grads go to professional schools where students from higher ranked US news students go. HWS has a great reputation with graduate schools. I know this from personal experience and with interacting with friends who go to other schools. I also know that the speakers who come to HWS can be the same/similar big time speakers that go to higher ranked schools. I also know professors at HWS that taught at bigger name schools before coming to HWS. </p>
<p>Have I sat in a classroom of other ranked schools? Yes, infact during my college tourings I visited several school classrooms and met their students. While brief, I got a feeling of the class atmosphere. I also graduated and took more classes at a university with a great ranking and I was very happy that I spent my first four years at HWS. Unlike at this university, I was not taught by any adjunct professors at HWS. I also liked the small classroom size at HWS, something that you do not always get at better ranked schools by US news. </p>
<p>You really need to do some research, other than the research you do on these college message boards before making statements. In fact, you are stating things about my college experience that you have no idea about. You also are distorting things that I said. I dont like it. </p>
<p>Why dont you call the school itself instead of asking on message boards for advice? Or, you know what, have your daughter call the school. She is the one attending school, yes, or is it you who plan to enroll. I mean, you are the one on this message board thinking you know so much about all these schools/and asking all the questions at the same time. Are you going to write her college application essay also?</p>
<p>Also,
when was the last time that US News sat in a college classroom and got firsthand experience to enable them to make distinctions between schools?</p>
<p>"I never said that HWS provided a better edu than the above schools you mentioned. "</p>
<p>Your exact statement from post #4, “From comparing my experiences at HWS several years ago to friends who went to other colleges, I truly feel that HWS OFFERS AN EDUCATION that is on par or BETTER THAN MANY OTHER SCHOOLS HIGHER RANKED by US News.” You referred to specific schools in another HWS thread.</p>
<p>You are certainly entitled to that opinion and I am entitled to disagree.</p>
<p>I am glad that your experience at HWS was so positive. I maintain, however, that there is a way to express the positive without overstatement and without denigrating other people’s experiences or opinions.</p>
<p>Come on, guys, mellow out.</p>
<p>This school is a real gem, with great administration, that has navigated the economic crisis much better than peer LACs.</p>
<p>Gasdoc, I agree that HWS is a real gem with a thoughtful, enthusiastic, well-organized administration. How do you know how well the school has weathered the economic crisis in comparison to other schools? I’m not questioning your statement, but I am curious about your sources of information.</p>
<p>To start with HWS has relied on their endowment for only 5-6% of their operating budget - which allows them to ride the downturn in the market better than institutions whose endowment account for 25-30% of their operating budget.</p>
<p>Ah, thank you. Interesting. Have you researched the financial statements of various colleges?</p>
<p>Some dual degree programs at HWS that some may have interest in: </p>
<p>I have a friend from Hobart at the Washington University architecture program. :)</p>
<p>JOINT DEGREE PROGRAMS:Hobart and William Smith offer several joint degree programs for students of promise who are interested in pursuing pre-professional certifications. </p>
<p>Engineering:
HWS offers joint degree programs in engineering with the School of Engineering and Applied Science at Columbia University and the Thayer School of Engineering at Dartmouth College.</p>
<p>In general, students in these programs spend three years at Hobart and William Smith, and then two years at the other institution. At the end of five years, the student receives a B.A. or B.S. from HWS and a B.S. in engineering from the cooperating university.</p>
<p>The Dartmouth program is structured a little differently. There, a student usually spends the first two years at Hobart and William Smith, the third year (or part of it) at Dartmouth, the senior year at HWS, and a fifth and final year at Dartmouth. Upon completion, they receive two degrees, one from Hobart and William Smith and one from Dartmouth. </p>
<p>Business:
Joint degree programs with both Clarkson University and the Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT) allow HWS students to complete the requirements for a Master of Business Administration (MBA) degree in one year rather than the usual two or more.</p>
<p>Admission to the 4+1 programs at Clarkson and RIT is available to students who include foundation courses in their undergraduate programs and meet prescribed admissions standards. </p>
<p>Architecture:
Hobart and William Smith offers a 3+4 joint degree program in architecture with Washington University in St. Louis, Mo. Under this arrangement, the student studies the first three years at Hobart and William Smith and the last four years at Washington University. After seven years, the student receives a B.A. from the Colleges and an advanced professional degree in architecture from Washington University. </p>
<p>It is also possible for students to spend their third year at Washington University and come back to Geneva for their senior year before returning to St. Louis for the remaining years of graduate study.</p>
<p>Nursing
HWS and the University of Rochester School of Nursing have established a 4+3 program that provides third-year students a guaranteed seat in either the one-year post baccalaureate program leading to RN licensure or the three-year program leading to nurse practitioner certification.</p>