<p>I agree. Please stay.</p>
<p>Shogun - hang around. I know this is a touchy subject and it is bound to get touchier. The implications of this transcend Army/Navy Football. I certainly hope the folks who thought up the ASO rules were not simply out to figure out how to get Army to Beat Navy!.<br>
Not knowing what happend behind closed doors and the 'intent' of the ASO, we can only speculate. We have heard it all now we must see how this will all play out.</p>
<p>As of today - 4 Army football players have signed with NFL teams. Campbell with the Detroit Lions (the GM's son plays Army Football), Tolson with the Giants, Trimble with the Chiefs and Viti with the Bills.</p>
<p>I watched the Espn spot on Caleb Campbell and the "round table" discussion -
the suggestion was made - will teams draft Army players to keep them out of Iraq? This was most disturbing to me. Yet 4 teams have signed players.</p>
<p>I fear the backlash - not all publicity is good publicity.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I watched the Espn spot on Caleb Campbell and the "round table" discussion - the suggestion was made - will teams draft Army players to keep them out of Iraq? </p>
<p>As of today - 4 Army football players have signed with NFL teams. </p>
<p>I fear the backlash - not all publicity is good publicity.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yep. I wonder how many other third rate Div I 3-9 teams had four players sign.</p>
<p>This is probably the most significant thing to happen to SA football in decades. It plays out on so many levels, many probably not yet identified. And it affects Navy tremendously.</p>
<p>I cant quite make up my mind on this issue to be honest, in principle I have a real problem with people getting out of their service obligation in return for playing sport well but then I think if its a couple of guys each year and they can really have such a big impact in terms of recruiting and the face of the Army to the nation and they are able to live with their choice then it makes sense to let them go.</p>
<p>I think if its going to be long term Army policy then I dont see how Navy and AF cant follow suit. There is no doubt that West Point has suffered casualty figures far far higher than either USNA or USAFA (I noticed the USMA class of 2006 had its first death on active service in the last couple of days) but I really dont think too many people applying to a SA focus on such things, I certainly didn't. So for any young scholar athlete who would be happy and proud to serve their country as a military officer but in the back of their mind dreams of making it in pro sports Army is going to be the perfect fit. Thats a problem for Navy and AF.</p>
<p>Former West Point mission and values.</p>
<p>"...your mission remains fixed, determined, inviolable. It is to win our wars. Everything else in your professional career is but corollary to this vital dedication. All other public purpose, all other public projects, all other public needs, great or small, will find others for their accomplishments; but you are the ones who are trained to fight. Yours is the profession of arms, the will to win, the sure knowledge that in war there is no substitute for victory, that if you loose, the Nation will be destroyed, that the very obsession of your public service must be Duty, Honor, Country."</p>
<p>General Douglas MacArthur's farewell speech to the Corp of Cadets May 12, 1962. Someone should walk over to the statue and read the inscriptions.</p>
<p>I am paraphrasing an interesting point from a poster on another site.</p>
<p>Major Corporation makes offers to the top ten graduates in each class because of their "exceptional skills". They could then do Reserve Recruiting Duty on weekends. Corporation sues Army for unfair labor practices if it says no to Company but yes to Lions.</p>
<p>Where does it stop?</p>
<p>’69, great post (#100) and remarkable on many levels. I hope Shogun takes note of your comments does stick around. This wouldn’t be much of a forum if we all agreed on every issue. </p>
<p>I think it’s only natural to come to the defense of an individual or institution that one enjoys a close association with. I think it’s also important to recognize the difference between critiquing or criticizing a policy rather than an institution and the individuals within it. </p>
<p>We live in a country that is “divisive” and divided by design, as it is the foundation and truly the basis on which our government is supposed to function and resolve differences without resorting to the kind of internal conflicts (civil wars) that have plagued many nations throughout history. Unfortunately when that division is elevated to a personal level, the system fails. So long as we focus on issues rather than individuals the system has a shot at working the way it was intended. </p>
<p>If there is any sense that the NFL is politicizing the policy by drafting players to keep them out of Iraq it will all be over with this year’s draft. I hate to sound so cynical but I rather doubt many NFL teams will elevate this issue to one of principal over profit…</p>
<p>Lets not kid ourselves. Of the four army players headed to the NFL, only one was drafted. He was not even drafted until the final round of the final day of the NFL draft. The fourth, who I haven't yet seen the name of, wasn't even on ESPN's board of potential draftees. We're not talking about athletes of the caliber of David Robinson or Roger Staubach. With the possible exception of Campbell and maybe the punter, and even thats a stretch, these guys aren't likely to make it off the practice squad. Seriously, how good are these people going to be as recruiters for the Army? </p>
<p>There biggest recruiting effect has already been realized with the possible dividends that the Army football has to recruit bigger name prospects. Your a bit delusional if you don't see the main goal of this program as anything more than a ploy to somehow improve Army's horrendous football program. It'll probably work, and in doing so, bring similar programs into play for both Navy and Air Force... Keeping in mind all the past arguments made about the commitments that we make when we choose a Service Academy, I think these types of programs also take away from the purest form of sports contest still present in this country, the Army-Navy Game.</p>
<p>^^^ that's the point, and good post. I don't think the vast majority of Navy folks want to follow suit and offer ASO as a way to remain competitive because it violates the fundamental raison d’</p>
<p>Now that we have seen that the ASO is going to attract the less than stellar, how will it be managed. As these rank and file move from pillar to post, will they have to return to active duty during the periods that they are not actually under contract? Half way through active duty work ups for deployment, will they be allowed to leave active duty again, gapping their billet, causing hardships among their "fellow" officer corps?</p>
<p>How in the world can you possibly make the statement that "Now that we have seen that the ASO is going to attract the less than stellar? What empirical data supports your conclusion? You insult every cadet at West Point. This sanctimonious love fest is making me ill and needs to stop. It seems like we would all be a lot better off Navy folks worried about the Naval Academy and let Army folks worry about West Point. Until the Naval Academy's house is in perfect condition its supporters should concentrate on the Naval Academy and stop worrying about perceived problems at West Point</p>
<p>OBTW, this is a Navy forum. As a guest, show a little decorum.</p>
<p>"Less than stellar". Only a few weeks ago, the proponents were stating that it would affect very few, maybe one football player every couple of years. Well we have had three to sign up as free agents. Is a free agent "less than stellar" than a draft choice? Absolutely. At least in my book. </p>
<p>FW, read the thread. This policy will affect the Naval Academy as much as it does WP. Therefore, it is indeed our problem.</p>
<p>USNA your statement was "Now that we have seen that the ASO is going to attract the less than stellar." What is your basis for stating that the ASO has attracted the less than stellar? Are you saying that Cadet Campbell is less than Stellar? Have you met with Cadet Campbell? Are you saying that he is somehow less than the other cadets? It is curious that the cadets from West Point, the people that know him, haven't made that statement, but you somehow feel justified in judging his character. I don't understand.</p>
<p>I also guess, using your logic, that the West Point thread should spend some time rehashing the Naval Academy's sex scandals because they will affect West Point at some time in the future. I think that is wrong and West Point cadets and supporters have passed on the opportunity to criticize the Naval Academy even though there is more than enough material to work with. More importantly than this being a Naval Academy thread, is the fact that this is a place for prospective college students to learn more about the service academies in order to decide if a service academy is right for them. The name of the site is College Confidential. It is not a Naval Academy site, it is not a Navy Sports site and it is not an alumni site for the Naval Academy. You are more than welcome to whoop it up with other Naval Academy alums on a site dedicated to the Naval Academy or Navy Sports and attack the cadets at West Point or any DoD directives you feel appropriate, collectively or individually, but this forum is totally inappropriate for such a discussion. As I said earlier in this thread, we are suppose to be on the same team.</p>
<p>SA's are not private universities; their polices and practices are open to scrutiny and comment by any citizen/taxpayer.... regardless of where their son/daughter goes to school or where they themselves graduated from. </p>
<p>The sex scandals you speak of are not the result of policy decisions, the two situations have absolutely nothing to do with each other in the context of critical observations or concerns about the policy in place in at military institution as it relates to fulfilling ones service commitment and the potential impact it may have at the others.</p>
<p>FWDAD, If you had read my previous response to you, you would have realized my "less than stellar" was referring to the cadets who signed free agent contracts, not Campbell who was drafted.</p>
<p>If somehow, you feel the sex scandals at USNA has something to do with WP, go at it. I will probably even contribute. The WP ASO policy does affect the Brigade and admissions to it. Therefore it is, in my opinion, a viable topic for this NAVAL ACADEMY portion of CC forum. If it makes you ill, you simply have the option of avoiding it.</p>
<p>I'll pass on the opportunity to trash the Naval Academy and like Shogun, I will fade into the night. Just remember..."College Confidential."</p>
<p>Too late...</p>
<p>You guys are throwing sand in the sandbox again........:eek:</p>
<p>I have been following this thread (the title caught my eye) but staying out of the discussion since this is the Navy forum. I feel I now need to say something before I burst. </p>
<p>It is clear that most of you dont like this policy. Nothing that is said here is going to change it. Only the policy makers can do that. Why keep beating this dead horse? It is what it is for now. </p>
<p>As an Army parent I am proud that one of the players was drafted into the NFL. Nothing you people can say will change that.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why keep beating this dead horse? It is what it is for now.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's wrong. That's why. No amount of rationalization or justification will make it right.</p>