I am completely baffled at how people come up with a "dream" school

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Okay here’s my predicament... I will leave out a lot of specifics because I’m hoping that there are more people here who are in my general situation (I can tell this is going to be a long post)</p>

<p>I just finished my junior year, I live in PA, ** and basically I have a decent shot at any school except some in the top 10**</p>

<p>I’ve done some thinking about my potential major, researched rankings and whatnot, and made a few visits. I’m not completely clueless, but during this whole process I’ve had a nagging question in the back of my head: What am I missing?</p>

<p>How do people decide on one or two schools that they definitely want to go to? How do they reach a level of certainty when they can wholeheartedly strive towards a school without fear of regret? </p>

<p>Lots of people say “getting into Harvard is a complete crapshoot”… well that sums up how I feel about PICKING a college. It’s a crapshoot. The things that really matter (like the people you will meet, the classes that you will take, the relationships that you will develop, the day-to-day details that make up your life, etc.) are things that cannot be predicted. </p>

<p>IMO, only the superficial aspects of a college can be determined beforehand, so why do people have dream schools?
1. Some people feel a “vibe” when they visit…. Alright, unless this is some sort of religious epiphany, I cannot see how a visit would be profoundly helpful. Are you sure you’re going to like the small college campus better than the inner city once you live there? Are you sure that that particular small college campus is better than the other small college campus you visited last week?
2. College research…. Testimonials? I don’t trust them. School website info? I can barely read through the marketing language.
3. Academic rankings… Well supposedly the educational experience does not vary that much when you’re talking about the top 50 schools, for example. And I still haven’t decided my major.
4. Opportunities... Again most colleges have ample clubs/job opportunities. Anyways, unless you've planned out all of your college years, how can you be certain about what you will want to pursue?</p>

<p>My point is, first of all, I don’t know exactly what I want. Sure I have some preferences, but it’s not like I even know what it’s like to actually ATTEND a big college vs. small college. I really don’t know how to articulate what would be conducive to my success, or how I would go about looking for it. Secondly, there are way too many factors, pros/cons, and similar schools to make me have more than a vague idea of which ones I prefer. </p>

<p>Thirdly, and most importantly, the whole crapshoot idea (that applies to the IMPORTANT things: IMO the people you meet are way more important than the type of school or the "vibe" you got in one of your visits for example). Maybe I decide on a top college, invest large amounts of time and emotion into getting in there, and then be completely miserable. OR maybe I take the list of top 50 colleges, throw them into a hat, pick one out, and then have the best 4 years of my life</p>

<p>I’m joking about the hat idea, but I’ve considered it. I know it's mostly WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT (so again, why have a dream school), but maybe with the hat idea I’d have less regrets (it’s harder to regret a random draw than it is to regret an active choice you made when you didn’t even know what you really wanted). Or maybe I’m just made for Communism? Eh</p>

<p>-------------------------------- (now to some specifics)
Fine, I can narrow down my choices a bit... probably going to major in business (though still unsure), prefer larger schools, prefer relatively rural medium-sized college town, and thats about it!!</p>

<p>But none of these "criteria" are even that important to me.</p>

<p>So basically I have next to nothing decided, and don't expect to make much progress. BUT I STILL WANT TO APPLY EARLY-DECISION SOMEWHERE.</p>

<p>I've often heard people say "dont do early decision unless you have a school that you really really want to go to above all others"</p>

<p>Well how about if you know that you wont have a school that you really really want to go to above all others?</p>

<p>If they're almost all the same to me, should I pick one that I like better than the rest (even though I'm unsure on all), apply early, and get it over with?</p>

<p>I mean if I wait an do regular decision with like 10 schools, get accepted into 7-8, I'd STILL have to decide on one school amongst several that I'm unsure of.</p>

<p>So even though I'm lacking in conviction, should I do early decision anyways because regular decision would just be delaying the inevitable?</p>

<p>Congrats if you read all the way down here, hope I made sense</p>

2

<p>I didn't visit the school that I applied ED to until like August 20th. I fell in love. Applied ED and I'll be attending in the fall.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, you'll have basically no idea what kind of school you want until you visit one. Just visting a single school will give you some idea of what you want. And then you can go from there.</p>

<p>Talk to you college counselor!!! He/she has experience and know which schools are similar. He/she should be able to point you in the right direction.</p>

<p>You've got six months until you have to send regular decision apps in. That's A LOT of time. Plenty of time to narrow down a list. Your college list should be something you spend a lot of time on. It's not going to be easy. But if you don't put the time into it, you're not going to end up somewhere that you want to go.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

3

<p>Yeah, I agree. There's no such thing as a perfect school... atleast not for me. I'm not going to like EVERYTHING about a university, and I have accepted that. I have narrowed my list down to 3 schools with good ED advantages. From there, I just strategize. Some people don't like the fact that I'm doing that and not applying to my ABSOLUTE first choice [which btw I don't have]. I say that it's not necessary to have an absolute first choice to apply ED. It just has to be around top 3. You don't want to end up with NO GOOD UNIVERSITY to go to. The ED advantage is probably exactly what I need to boost my application, since I would be screwed if I apply RD xD</p>

4

<p>Well the "vibe" is what you feel/get from the people that go there. WEnt to visit 4 schools, and NO DOUBT there is a vibe you get. One I visited, was like High School scene revisited, scratch that one off the list. Another, full of kids like myself, felt "comfortable" there. Another within a city itself, too impersonal for me, too scatered. Went to another 25,000 students, looked like a city. Wonderful atmosphere, could see myself there, however, my parents pointed out, some lectures will have 200+ in them, VERY easy not to show up, why bother, you can't hear or see the professor. So visiting them is something I think you have to do, at some point, that might be the time to visit them to pick from the acceptances?</p>

5

<p>I think you've hit upon a crucial point-- colleges are, in all reality, more or less the same.</p>

<p>You're going to find students who do nothing but study all day; you'll find students who sit and play Super Smash Bros. for hours on end. You'll meet students and professors that you really, really like, and you'll probably meet students and professors that you really, really don't. Some classes will be easy for you, some will give you a headache; you'll meet some students who are as dull as cardboard and others who are just amazing in every sense of the word; you'll have a chance to do what you love, whether it's play pickup basketball, go to movies, do community service, or party. I'm describing my college experience right now, and I'm sure that a lot of current college students would agree.</p>

<p>And don't worry about what you do and don't like just yet-- my friend originally applied ED to a large, urban school, and when he realized FA wouldn't work out, he withdrew the application. When RD came around, he got full tuition to both his ED school and a small, rural school. He ended up choosing the small, rural school.</p>

<p>Every school has its strengths and weaknesses; just be sure to choose a school where you could make those weaknesses work in your favor. (For example, for me, large and small, rural and urban, were all unimportant; but I definitely wanted an intellectual student body and a core curriculum).</p>

<p>And in terms of applying ED... apply to a school you know you'd be happy at. You don't have to be IN LOVE with it, but you should at least know that you'd make it work in your favor if you went there.</p>

6

<p>I knew I wanted a top ten school with undergrad attention, a strong social life, a liberal-bending student body, a tight knit community, diversity, and a strong social life (with parties). Other factors like great campus, access to "playful" outdoors (i.e. rivers, frozen ponds for ice skating, sledding hills, etc), also factored in.</p>

<p>"Dream School": Dartmouth, Brown, Princeton
Accepted: Dartmouth, Brown</p>

<p>Also would have applied looking back: Amherst, Pomona</p>

7

<p>slipper....on those criteria [with the double post for "strong social life" (with parties per addendum)], Brown does not qualify based on "top 10 school" and Dartmouth does not qualify based on "liberal-bending student body," although that is obviously less quantitative, as is everything else you put down as criteria. Let's acknowledge we are talking at a fairly rarefied level and drill down through the Aetheria a bit. </p>

<p>Point is, all that came down to "feel" or "vibe" except for ranking, as to which you ignored Brown's. Still, I am sure you made a good choice for you. I think once one is satisfied that the school meets your academic interests and is reasonably well-regarded, it <em>all</em> comes down to how comfortable you personally are. Two visits, both during classes, are preferable if possible, including one overnight at or in the area of the dorms or the "collegetown." In my case, Yale could not budge me from Cornell after I hung out at the student union and met a dozen great kids and caught a few classes, including those in disciplines in which I had no interest. Seems paradoxically too obvious and too superficial, but the "feel" of the campus, its students and its classes ultimately controls if you leave preconceived notions behind.<br>
You'll spend most of your time on campus or immediate environs. The campus and its offerings are more important than what the location otherwise bids. Else why would anyone go to Hanover or Providence or, for that matter, New Haven or the middle of New Jersey? You will not be, if you are like 98% of your classmates even at Columbia, going to Broadway musicals or Carnegie Hall more than a very, very few times. I managed to go through Harvard with no "cultural events" other than a few Sox and Celtics games, and through Columbia without traipsing the Great White Way. I found the Cornell campus, and the surrounding small city, met all my needs as a student, hardly different than my experience in New York or Boston.</p>

<p>On the other hand, UC-Santa Cruz....</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
I think you've hit upon a crucial point-- colleges are, in all reality, more or less the same.</p>

<p>...</p>

<p>Every school has its strengths and weaknesses; just be sure to choose a school where you could make those weaknesses work in your favor. (For example, for me, large and small, rural and urban, were all unimportant; but I definitely wanted an intellectual student body and a core curriculum).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>hmm ... to me you made both sides of the argument. On one side ... all schools are somewhat the same (you can find whatever you're looking for to some degree at all schools). On the other side you're looking for an intellectual student body ... do all schools have bright kids? sure ... would I say all schools have an intellectual student body? not even close ... to me those words mean a concentration of kids focused on intellectual things.</p>

<p>So you may not have cared about urban or rural (I would claim most kids probably have a preference) but you did care about intellectial student body and a core curriculum. Most students looking at schools have some set of criteria that are improtant to them and this will shrink their potential school set smaller and smaller. </p>

<p>For me, many moons ago, by the time I focused on 1) region of country, 2) college town, 3) academic rigor, and 4) potential majors (inclduing architecture) there were only about 10 schools in the mix. After visiting schools I had a dream school as the "vibe" fit me ... for me, I felt I was at a school fitting all my criteria and the schools and kids felt comfortable and like I'd like to spent time with them. In hindsight my criteria could have included level of ethnic and economic diversity and the level of drinking and frats ... part of what created a "vibe" for me ... there was also the general feel of the campus and the kids which I describe as stealth intellectuals ... something I had no feel for at all until I experienced it. At the end of my visits (which were after my acceptences) I most definately had a dream school and it was not the same one as when I started the trip.</p>

9

<p>apply to a bunch of schools if you feel you have a good shot, and then pick the one you like the most of where you get accepted.</p>

10

<p>Perfect answer ^</p>

11

<p>how about your state school? penn state or pitt maybe?
penn state is in the one of the typical "relatively rural medium-sized college towns", is large, and has many many majors to choose from if you decided to change from business.. you'd probably qualify for the honors program, and it would be cheap :)<br>
I know a few people who just went to their flagship U if they don't really know what they want to major in/are looking for because it has a lot to offer and you wouldn't waste as much money..
if you decided you hated it after starting, then you could try and pinpoint what you hate and look for a college that is different and transfer, or you could spend a few days there and try to do that before you even apply ;)</p>

12

<p>Actually redcrimblue Dartmouth is about 80% democrat (in 2000 in "thedartmouth" poll 77% were Gore or Nadar, it was about 80% Kerry in 2004). Dartmouth has changed significantly over the past 30 years and liberals are the considerable majority. </p>

<p>Brown in my experience has a great social life. The spring weekends are fantastic, there are many house parties, and Thayer Street is always a party.</p>

13

<p>When in doubt, simply go with prestige and the quality of your intended major. Honestly, it's how many (if not most) people choose a dream college.</p>

14

<p>It is, as you said, about "feel". Or at least it was for me. I had narrowed my choices down to two schools: Wisconsin and Northwestern. I visited Wisconsin first and after that, I made up my mind. I still visited NW because my dad wanted me to "be sure", but walking around the Madison campus was enough to know that it was where I wanted to be for 4 years. Now, thats not really objective, so my saying go with "what feels right" probably doesn't help anyone who doesn't get a feeling like that on a visit, but thats how it happened with me.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
The things that really matter (like the people you will meet, the classes that you will take, the relationships that you will develop, the day-to-day details that make up your life, etc.) are things that cannot be predicted.

[/quote]

Did you consider all those things when picking a high school? Did you visit several high schools before registering for one? You probably didn't. Did it still work out fine?</p>

<p>Unless you have some very special needs you will be happy at a lot of places.</p>

16

<p>Hmmm... I'm rethinking a way to rephrase my comments in post 5 in light of what others have been saying. For me, a concentration of "intellectual" students was important to me because all my friends from high school are passionate about academics, not only performing well but making sure they are enjoying their experiences. </p>

<p>My friends have ended up at schools from SUNY Binghamton to Syracuse to Vassar to Oberlin to Wesleyan to Harvard, and they have all met likeminded people. I'm sure I would be happy at any of the schools I listed, with the possible exception of Syracuse (I would probably chill with the fine arts people and be fine). For me, though, I don't make friends supereasily, and I wanted to be in an environment that specifically attracted nerdy intellectual types. I thought this kind of environment would take a lot of the stress of making new friends off of me and would allow me to focus on enjoying myself. It did.</p>

<p>I actually DIDN'T like the "vibes" at my first-choice school and the school I currently attend when I visited. The campus was quiet, students were on their way to classes and didn't seem to be radiating sunshine or anything like that. What did sell me, though, was the tour guide, the class visit I made (six kids and a professor sitting in a cramped closetlike room and discussing a book that was translated from French) and also the personal attention and the quirkiness.</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
Unfortunately, you'll have basically no idea what kind of school you want until you visit one. Just visting a single school will give you some idea of what you want. And then you can go from there.</p>

<p>Talk to you college counselor!!! He/she has experience and know which schools are similar. He/she should be able to point you in the right direction.</p>

<p>You've got six months until you have to send regular decision apps in. That's A LOT of time. Plenty of time to narrow down a list. Your college list should be something you spend a lot of time on. It's not going to be easy. But if you don't put the time into it, you're not going to end up somewhere that you want to go.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I have visited several schools... Johns Hopkins, Princeton, Swarthmore, Cornell... but while I developed minor preferences, I could "see" myself going to any one of them (except maybe Swarthmore)... we're talking about high-level colleges all in the same part of the same country.</p>

<p>I suspect there is as much difference between two different class years within a school as there would be between two classes from different schools</p>

<p>My guidance counselor is young/inexperienced, and basically I've received the same advice that I get on this forum. Early-decision is actually Nov. 1 I think.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Yeah, I agree. There's no such thing as a perfect school... atleast not for me. I'm not going to like EVERYTHING about a university, and I have accepted that. I have narrowed my list down to 3 schools with good ED advantages. From there, I just strategize. Some people don't like the fact that I'm doing that and not applying to my ABSOLUTE first choice [which btw I don't have]. I say that it's not necessary to have an absolute first choice to apply ED. It just has to be around top 3. You don't want to end up with NO GOOD UNIVERSITY to go to. The ED advantage is probably exactly what I need to boost my application, since I would be screwed if I apply RD xD

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's what I've been thinking... I can probably narrow it down to like 5 schools that I would consider ED, but then what? Use my hat idea? All I'm saying is that random selection would be as good as a deliberate choice when it comes down to 5 top choices... and you're less likely to regret a random selection</p>

<p>
[quote]
Well the "vibe" is what you feel/get from the people that go there. WEnt to visit 4 schools, and NO DOUBT there is a vibe you get. One I visited, was like High School scene revisited, scratch that one off the list. Another, full of kids like myself, felt "comfortable" there. Another within a city itself, too impersonal for me, too scatered. Went to another 25,000 students, looked like a city. Wonderful atmosphere, could see myself there, however, my parents pointed out, some lectures will have 200+ in them, VERY easy not to show up, why bother, you can't hear or see the professor. So visiting them is something I think you have to do, at some point, that might be the time to visit them to pick from the acceptances?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Did not get "vibe" at any of the schools I've been to. Maybe it's because I've lived in 5 different states all along the East coast, so I could see myself fitting in in most settings (without a strong preference for any particular type).</p>

<p>
[quote]
Seems paradoxically too obvious and too superficial, but the "feel" of the campus, its students and its classes ultimately controls if you leave preconceived notions behind.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>See I don't really trust what "preconceived notions" that I do get. Did you end up going to Cornell? Did it turn up to meet your expectations based on the preconceived notions that you developed in all of one random day?</p>

<p>
[quote]
apply to a bunch of schools if you feel you have a good shot, and then pick the one you like the most of where you get accepted.

[/quote]

I don't think you understand my dilemma. Let's say we start out with 50 schools that I would POSSIBLY want to go to.</p>

<p>For regular decision:
I have to narrow it down from 50 schools down to 10 to apply to. Then, let's say I get into 7, then I would have to choose one from those 7 to attend. So basically the only schools I wouldn't have to weed out would be the 3 that I got rejected from.</p>

<p>For early decision:
I still start out with the 50 initial schools, but I immediately narrow it down to 1 and apply.</p>

<p>Since I am going to be just as indecisive come the fall as I will be in the winter/spring, having only THREE less schools to decide from would not be worth the admittance advantage and peace of mind that would come from ED, no? This seems strange that no one has thought of this before.......</p>

<p>
[quote]
how about your state school? penn state or pitt maybe?
penn state is in the one of the typical "relatively rural medium-sized college towns", is large, and has many many majors to choose from if you decided to change from business.. you'd probably qualify for the honors program, and it would be cheap
I know a few people who just went to their flagship U if they don't really know what they want to major in/are looking for because it has a lot to offer and you wouldn't waste as much money..
if you decided you hated it after starting, then you could try and pinpoint what you hate and look for a college that is different and transfer, or you could spend a few days there and try to do that before you even apply

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Maybe, but transferring is something that I would want to avoid at all costs.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Did you consider all those things when picking a high school? Did you visit several high schools before registering for one? You probably didn't. Did it still work out fine?</p>

<p>Unless you have some very special needs you will be happy at a lot of places.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I absolutely agree with you. That's why I am so indecisive, and am confused at how some people are so deadset on one school (e.g.: chanman )</p>

<p>But yes, I will probably go with academics/major with a little emphasis on location/setting, and then choose one to ED</p>

18

<p>I wouldn't be able to differentiate Princeton, JHU, and Cornell from each other, either, other than Princeton is the most competitive admissions-wise, Cornell is the biggest, and JHU is closest to a city.</p>

19

<p>Well I could differentiate them...</p>

<p>Cornell was by far the most isolated, Swarthmore was almost claustrophobically small, JHU/Princeton were pretty much alike</p>

<p>But I'm not too picky and I really don't know which kind I would like better</p>