I can't decide between a Bachelor's and an Associates + I can't decide what to study. Help?

College Search & Selection
1

Please read through this. I expect that it will be fairly long and detailed but I am at a total loss.

Let me begin by saying that my college search has been less than ideal. I started considering schools during the latter part of my sophomore year and I’ve learnt a lot, but now that admissions season is here (and I am finding myself increasingly pressed for time), I have only committed and applied to one school. I have a “backup school” in mind that is super easy to get into if I absolutely have to take that route, but I’d rather not.

First of all, I haven’t really decided on a major. Well, I kind of have, but I’m having doubts. Throughout my high school career, I’ve had many ideas as to what I want to spend my life doing and most of those ideas have been short-lived. The two that have stuck around and been the most prevalent are a Business degree and a degree in Journalism/Literature. Now, let me tell you why:

I’ll begin with Journalism/Literature. From the day I entered first grade, English has always been my best subject. I’ve been blessed with a large vocabulary and a classical way with words (although, don’t judge me by my CC postings – these are mostly rushed and made late at night). As a freshman, I re-established the school newspaper at my then-high school and I later stopped writing for it because of the lack of opportunity for serious journalism. Still, I served for almost three years as editor-in-chief. I was also published in my local newspaper for the first time last summer and while I was in eighth grade, I wrote for a small technology blog. Journalism seems like a natural career fit for me and one of my career goals, presuming that I enter this career field, is to write ethically and honestly. However, journalism can be a difficult field to make a name for yourself in these days and the pay is less than stellar.

Now, on to Business. I was placed into a business class as a freshman and couldn’t get out of it. I feel like that was almost like a sign from the divines. I went on to take five or six business classes, which was more than I needed to complete the business pathway and I just really love business. I feel like business is so prestigious and offers up so much opportunity. Plus, the pay generally isn’t bad. I would say that I am equally as enamored with business as I am with journalism.

Now, past that, I can’t decide what type of degree to pursue. I really only have two options: an Associates or a Bachelor’s. The bachelors obviously would provide me with more immediate opportunity in the job market whereas an associates would probably require that I start at a lower position. I’ll also be honest and say that I’m not thrilled with going to college, but if I don’t, it will be much more difficult to go anywhere in life and I’d always wanted to take a gap year between high school and college but the funds just aren’t there and I know that the chances that I won’t ever go back to school if I take a gap year are very high based on general statistics. I feel like if I went with an associates degree, I could finish it in 2 years or so, enter the workforce for a year, and then decide whether to go back to school for a bachelors degree or stay in the workforce. These last four years have been hellish on me and I don’t know if I have the stamina to do another four years but as I said, I know that I need some type of education.

As I mentioned, I have applied to Columbia College in Chicago for journalism. I am also toying with several of CUNY’s community colleges. Some of the things that are really important for me are schools that don’t require the ACT/SAT because I am ‘anti-test’ and won’t be taking those exams (spare me the lecture – I’m not being intentionally rude, but I have heard it from people on CC until I’m sick of hearing it), and I’m looking for schools in Chicago, Boston, and New York primarily because of their public rail systems. I am not considering schools in my current state of Georgia because there are no cities (no, not even Atlanta) that meet my demands. College is kind of a catalyst for me to be able to relocate while the motivation and money is there.

So, what advice can you give me?

2

What can your family pay? It’s fine if no city in Georgia “meets your demands” if your parents are willing to pay for you to go OOS. Are they?

It’s also fine not to take the SAT or ACT. I think that limits your college options because the guaranteed merit awards that I know of are stats based. So, again, what your parents will pay matters.

The best aid comes from schools and goes primarily to freshmen, so starting at a cc means you’ll probably be full pay your last two years. You can only borrow ~$5500/year. If you’re low income (less than ~$50k/year), you may qualify for a Pell grant of up to $5k/year. As long as your parents are willing to pay for the last two years, that’s probably a fine option too, unless you want to go into finance where your UG college seems to matter.

Let us know your budget, GPA, and preferences (urban/rural, size, geographical area) and we may be able to offer some suggestions.

3

After speaking to a financial advisor, I have determined that I will probably take as much as I can in federal loans and then I will take out whatever else I need in private loans. It really depends on how the lender’s look at our income because it comes from a small business and it exceeds $200,000 if you look at the total income, but it falls under $50,000 if you look at what we actually keep and doesn’t go into mandatory business expenses. I also anticipate to have some scholarships (maybe up to a few thousand dollars). I have a small college savings account, but that money will almost certainly have to go towards moving, travel, and living expenses.

It’s worth mentioning that Columbia College in Chicago is $40,000/year and while I’m confident that I could pay that, a lot of the money would have to come from private loans with HUGE interest rates. I’m not keen on doing that. CUNY’s community colleges are usually less than $8,000/year including books. An advantage of attending a CUNY community college would also be the direct path to a four-year CUNY senior college after graduation. The downside would be that, even though I would be working through school, very little money would go into paying back my loans while I’m in school because, though I love the city, New York is insanely expensive no matter which corner of the city you go to.

I would love some suggestions on schools if you don’t mind. My current GPA is 3.0, my budget is ideally under $20,000/year, and I prefer schools that are in an urban setting in the Northeast corridor and the midwest. Public transit, especially rail, is very important to me. I’d like to spend as little on application fees as possible, so schools with an acceptance rate of 80% or better are preferred. The actual yield rate doesn’t matter very much to me.

4

“I’d always wanted to take a gap year between high school and college but the funds just aren’t there and I know that the chances that I won’t ever go back to school if I take a gap year are very high based on general statistics.”

General statistics mean squat. What matters is whether YOU can benefit from a gap year.

A gap year needn’t be expensive. You can get a job, or just do local volunteer work during that time off. Since you are feeling burned out, I would definitely recommend that you take a gap year. Since you are interested in business, you could try working for a bit. Some employers are very good about helping to pay for an employee’s education, so don’t forget that either.

Likewise, there is nothing wrong with earning an associates degree and working for a while before you decide about completing a bachelor’s degree. Just be certain that either a) the associates degree will actually help you get a job, or b) the part-time job you hold while completing your associates degree will lead to a better job, or c) both.

Columbia College Chicago is lovely, but it is not worth the colossal amount of debt that you are proposing taking on. No college or university is. You can only borrow the student loans on your own. Your parents will have to co-sign the private ones, and they will have to qualify for those loans every year. What is your plan for years 2, 3, and 4 if your parents are denied those loans? Do you really want to have to drop out of college and get a job and start paying down $XX,XXX in debt without a degree of any kind?

Is that $20,000 budget what your parents can pay plus your student loan, or are you proposing to somehow borrow the full $20,000 each year?

To find a college/university that costs less than $20,000, run the college-matching search engines for places there the tuition and fees for out-of-state students will come to no more than $10,000. That will leave you the other $10,000 for your living expenses. Your budget will be tight, but probably workable.

With a GPA of 3.0 and no SAT/ACT score, you cannot expect any scholarship money. If you had a good test score, however, even a GPA of 3.0 would be enough to guarantee you admission and some merit aid at a few places.

5

My parents will qualify for those loans every year. They own four properties in two states so if it came down to it, and we have discussed this so I know that it won’t be an issue, they could use those assets as collateral against a loan. Money is not an issue when it comes to my education.

That $20,000 is the maximum amount of money per year that I would ideally spend on my tuition. That is what I can pay when you combine my student loans, scholarships, and parents money.

6

How is it that you are certain that you will qualify for any scholarships? Are you guaranteed some that would come to a certain amount of money because of a particular activity you are engaged in?

If your parents have enough real estate to serve as collateral, and they don’t mind selling those properties if they need to to pay off your loans for you one day, then this plan may work for your family. Just be certain that both you and your parents have a plan for paying down the loans if one of the co-signers becomes disabled or dies. The standard recommendation is that each co-signer hold a term life insurance policy on the other for the value of the loan.

$20,000 is a tight but do-able budget, but you may need to be flexible about location. College Navigator finds 60 4-year institutions that offer Journalism type majors, and 197 that offer Business type majors where the GA in-state tuition and fees, or the OOS tuition and fees are no more than $10,000
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?s=all&p=09&l=93&ic=1&tx=10000&ts=GA

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?s=all&p=52&l=93&ic=1&tx=10000&ts=GA

Follow the links, and see if there is something that could work for you.

7

Er, forgive me, but it actually does sound like money is an issue here.

If your parents are using their properties as collateral against a loan, are they planning on borrowing money to finance your education (and repaying it themselves) or are they planning on co-signing loans for you to pay for your education (or otherwise expecting you to repay the balance)?

Because if it’s the latter, that is a bad bad idea. Columbia College Chicago is over $40K a year, or $160K over four years. Even if you got a little bit of aid - let’s say $10K per year - that still leaves you with $120K to cover. Neither of the two careers you mentioned - or any career, really - can guarantee a newly minted BA with enough money to repay six-figure debt. You need to not only think about what it is possible for you to borrow, but also what it is possible for you to repay.

The CUNY community college idea is a better one, but still not necessarily doable - it really depends on your parents’ resources. Tuition at a community college in the CUNY system is around $7,000 a year for an out-of-state student, so if your parents could pay that out of pocket that would be great - but if not, your federal loans will cover most of that. The issue is going to be housing and living expenses, which I think can easily be around $20K per year or more in an expensive city like NYC.

Is going to community college in Georgia and then transferring to a college in Chicago, Boston, or NYC an option?

Also, why specifically public rail systems? There are other cities that don’t have trains but whose bus systems make it easy(ish) to get around.

8

You didn’t understand what I was saying. We are not using any properties as collateral unless we have to. Right now, we qualify for all of the loans that I will need but I was addressing some of a prior commenter’s concerns by saying that if at some point in the next four years if some unforeseen circumstance arises that would cause us to not be able to get the necessary loans based on credit alone, we COULD use a property as collateral if we had to. We have discussed that option because we like to plan ahead but it is not the plan at the moment. It is a backup plan to make sure that I will be able to pay for my education.

I did get accepted to Columbia College last night but I don’t think I’m going so that leaves me with CUNY and I plan to look into some other colleges under my new sub-$20,000 budget.

CUNY is doable. The tuition is not and will not be a problem. As for housing and living expenses, that will be a little more difficult but still doable. I plan to work and let’s say that I work for a fairly conservative thirty hours per week at the minimum wage of $8.75. That’s $1,050.00 per month. If my rent is $1,200.00 and I split that with a roommate, that’s $600.00 that I’m paying for rent. After I pay rent, I have $450.00 left over and $100.00 goes towards utilities (which is at the high end of things according to Expatistan.com), and $100.00 goes towards an unlimited-use MetroCard, so that’s $250.000 per month for food and anything extra so I’m in the green. That’s keeping in mind that my travel expenses are taken care of.

Going to school in Georgia is not an option.

Rail systems are much more efficient. Whenever I’ve visited cities, both in the U.S. and Europe, the bus situation has been much less ideal than rail. That’s just a personal preference.

9

Are you working now? Do you have experience juggling 30 hours of paid work with classes, homework, and other activities? Few college students can handle that many work hours.

Do you have job skills that would guarantee you a job at all, let alone one that pays more than minimum wage?

Re-run your income estimate taking into account the portion that will be taken out of your paycheck for social security, federal, and state income taxes. Even if you do earn $1050 each month, your take-home will be significantly less than that.

10

It’s great that you’re considering all options.

A couple of things come to mind with your current plan. An apt. in NYC or surrounding environs will be difficult to find for $1200.00 per month, I suggest that you double that estimate. Even splitting rent with a room mate will be expensive and that’s before you add in utilities, internet and your phone.
Are there other larger cities that you would consider that are not as expensive? Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Portland, etc.?

Need-based aid takes more into consideration than your families gross income. If your parents own a business and their net income is around $50k per year, you should be eligible for need-based aid. Have you run Net Price Calculators at those schools that you’re interested in? If not, be sure to do so.

Someone up thread mentioned that the most financial consideration is given to freshman, so a two year path in an expensive city, may be followed up by some expensive tuition at a 4-year to complete your degree.
Not to discourage you, but just to be sure that you’re keeping the potential primary goal - a BA degree - in your sights as you do your research.

All that said, here are a few additional schools to explore that will give you the academics you’re looking for, at potentially affordable prices, depending on merit vs. need-based aid:

De Paul - Chicago
Marymount Manhattan - NYC
Seattle University - Seattle
Loyola Marymount - LA
Lewis & Clark - Portland
Goucher - suburban Baltimore
Lesley - Boston
Simmons - Boston (if you’re female)

Good luck.

11

HappyMomOfOne,

I am working now, although I admit that since I attend an online charter high school, I can place work ahead of school at the moment and still do just fine. I’m very motivated and I know that once I am wherever it is that I go, I’ll have to do whatever it is that I need to do to survive and pay my bills. CUNY seems to be pretty flexible with class times anyway. Also, you can find some pretty great apartments in excellent neighborhoods in Brooklyn for $600.00 to $1000.00.

I have quite a bit of work experience. I worked as an assistant bookkeeper for a local logistics company and I also worked as a librarian’s aid where I handled circulation tasks, ordering, payments, etc. Additionally, I build websites on the side and at $400.00 for six pages, I undercut the price of most competition and do pretty well. That’s roughly one website per month and I would still be able to do that no matter where I go if I had to. Experience shouldn’t be a problem. If anything, there’s always retail and food service.

12

Hop,

While Manhattan is expensive, much of Brooklyn hasn’t quite caught on to those prices yet. I use apartments.com to browse every now and then and I’ve found two-bedroom apartments for less than $1000.00 in (as far as I can tell from internet reviews and Google StreetView) nice neighborhoods and near transit.

I feel that CUNY would be a good choice for an associate’s degree to precede a bachelor’s because of the opportunity to transfer to a four-year CUNY school.

Thank you for the school suggestions. Some of them I have heard of, some not, but I will look over all of them and run them through the Niche engine and research further the one’s that fit my needs.

Thank you.

13

Just an FYI - as someone who has lived in both Boston and several European countries, the rail systems in either Chicago, NYC, or Boston are FAR cries from anything you’ve seen in Europe. The T is no reason to go into heavy debt (It wasn’t even in service for about half of last winter because of the heavy snow, and had to be replaced with buses)- think about travel costs to go to school that far away on top of the tremendous loans you would have- it’s a financial recipe for disaster.

14

Obviously, every rail system is different. The U.S. doesn’t invest as heavily in rail as Europe does so it all starts to get kind of run down (except for the Washington D.C. Metro – it’s gorgeous) but even so, I think I’d brave the NY Subway before I tried, say, the Metro Roma again any day.

Anyway, I appreciate all of the input I’ve received so here’s what I think I’m going to do based on all of this:

I’m going to apply this weekend to six CUNY community colleges in order of preference and assuming that I get in to at least one, I’ll probably commit for three reasons: location, price, and the guarantee that I will be able to continue on to a four-year CUNY school if I graduate with a 2.0 GPA or higher. I’ll save a lot of money on tuition by doing so.

I’m also going to apply to some other schools in D.C. and Boston so that I’ll have backups.

I know that there are still some things to be said, so go ahead and say them. I’ll keep replying but as it stands, I’ve made up my mind.

15

See if you could get into CUNY Staten Island without a test score.The campus is self contained and they’ve got a residence hall, but the ferry takes you right into Manhattan.
CUNY community colleges all follow “CUNY pathways” so that all your classes will readily transfer to 4-year colleges.
So, applying to a couple of them, based on their location (check out the location carefully) would be
BMCC is a popular one that is a feeder to Baruch, the “Business” CUNY.
However, right now, a student needs $1,000- 1,400/month for a room in an apartment. Some brokers pretend there are lower-cost possibilities, but they either fail to materialize or end up being dumps. That’s from very savvy apartment hunters in Brooklyn and Manhattan.

Apply to Hampshire because they share your philosophy of being anti-test. You never know, it may turn out to be affordable?

Have you ever considered Sciences Po’s international process? As far as I know, they look at your classes, your grades, you have a pretty thorough interview, but they don’t need a test score and one of their tracks is entirely in English. Not the cheapest, but within budget and Reims or Paris have all the rail transit you could wish for :wink:

San Diego has a light rail system but I don’t think SDSU or USD are test-optional. You could always attend a community college in San Diego, then transfer to SDSU. However you would always be considered OOS for tuition purpose and while total costs for CC are about 20K, total costs at SDSU would climb to 35K.

Minneapolis- St Paul (the twin cities) have an excellent public transportation network, as well as light rail stations up to the campus of the University of Minnesota. St Paul’s community college is very good and if you work part time for a year with part time classes you can be considered “instate” after a year. Same thing in NYS - work part time, study part time, and in a year you’ll be considered instate. This should help with costs and tuition - and they’re quite low whether instate or out of state. In addition, education is well-funded in both states.
Same thing in Missouri - which actually has the top undergraduate journalism school in the nation, and where you could potentially mix journalism and business. If you work part time for a year while taking 1 to 3 community college classes per semester, after a year you’ll be considered instate. And if you attend CC for two years no one will ask you about your test scores.

16

Also, check to see if any of your intended colleges accept CLEP scores as credits. CLEPs are tests, but can really cut the cost of education at certain colleges. Sounds like you could easily ace some of those tests without any pain.