I chose Yale over Harvard and Princeton. Now that I've graduated, here are my thoughts.

<p>There are several H vs Y vs P threads, but they are generally pretty bad. I'm going to do what I can to actually be helpful. </p>

<p>Harvard was my second choice. I would still choose Yale, but my second choice would be Princeton. I should've focused more on comparing Y and P instead of Y and H. </p>

<p>Undergrad focus:
I don't really buy the argument that university size has a lot to do with how much they care about undergrads. At least I don't buy that it's predictive. Yale's medical school, business school, divinity school, forestry school, etc are fairly autonomous and and have different faculty than the College. You won't be competing with grad students due to the existence of professional schools because your professors won't be teaching at those schools. They have their own faculties. All three schools have fairly similar ratios of undergrads to grad students in the departments where your professors will teach. The smaller size of the university is often cited as a reason why Yale is better for undergrads than Harvard is, but I don't buy it. Yale and Princeton have reputations for a strong undergrad focus while Harvard does not. From what I can tell, those reputations reflect reality. The relative sizes of the graduate and undergraduate population may contribute to that, but what actually matters is that, for whatever reason, Yale and Princeton grads tend to be more satisfied with the instruction they receive. </p>

<p>Endowments:</p>

<p>Last year Harvard's endowment contributed $1.5 to the university's ($4.2 billion) budget. At Yale it was just over $1 billion ($3.1 billion) and at Princeton about $700,000,000 ($1.5 billion). Endowment spending per student:
P: $88473
Y $82583
H: $71428</p>

<p>It is difficult to tell what this means for you as a prospective undergrad. Each school within each university receives different amounts from the endowment. At Yale the med school more or less pays for itself through tuition, research grants and patient services fees, meaning it doesn't draw much of its budget from the endowment. The med school accounts for a billion dollars of Yale's budget and ~860 students, but, I believe, takes a relatively small chunk of its funding from the endowment. Non-science PhDs cost universities a lot of money because they don't bring in much research funding. I suspect that it's going to be the college and the FAS, not the professional schools, that suck up most endowment money. Harvard appears to have much lower endowment spending per student, but that may be misleading due to a large number of professional school students who (perhaps) don't actually get much of that endowment money. </p>

<p>That being said, Harvard and Yale's endowments include the endowments of its various professional schools. A chunk of that money is going to be reserved for law students, not you. Most endowment money is restricted. It's not a giant bank account the university uses however it wants. How it affects you will depend on how that money is restricted. Even at Princeton, where that money is not tied to professional schools, it's still going to be restricted to certain things. </p>

<p>Bottom line: don't pay too much attention to the endowments. They're all fairly similar. Try to find out what actual services they get you. Find out what funding is like for student activities. I know Yale spends a lot on student art related projects. Find out about fellowships. </p>

<p>Location:
Cambridge is clearly a better location than either New Haven or Princeton. I love Cambridge. It's the center of the academic universe. </p>

<p>New Haven is better than people think. It has a high crime rate, but that won't affect you. There is violence, but it's locals on locals in low income minority neighborhoods. You're very safe at Yale. You will, though, be quite often reminded of your privileged position in society because you see the impacts of income inequality and racial segregation, but you won't be affected by it any more than you would anywhere else. I'm grateful for my time in New Haven because I've been able to live in a wonderful place while not being removed from the real world. There are plenty of problems with modern American society, and it won't be as hidden from you at Yale as it would be at Princeton. I suspect I'll live a lot of my adult life in a wealthy bubble, and I'm glad that at Yale I've been able to see outside the bubble, even though I'm still in an enormously privileged and safe environment. I'm going to be living in New Haven for the next year, and I'm looking forward to it. I'm going to see tons of great live theater, hear great music and eat great food. </p>

<p>You are going to get more of a college town feel in Princeton or New Haven. Harvard seems very integrated into the city with less of a defined campus. I get the impression that much more of your social life will take place off campus at Harvard than it would at Yale or Princeton. I was more interested in campus life than city life at this stage in my life, and I think I made a good choice. </p>

<p>Courses:
Harvard requires 32, Yale 36, and Princeton 31. I'm guessing the reason Yale requires more is not to make you work harder than you would elsewhere, but to encourage you to take a wider breadth of classes. You can take 4 classes Credit/D/Fail. You often hear people talk about looking for a fifth class, meaning one that's interesting but not a lot of work. </p>

<p>It's getting late, so I'm going to go now. I'll write more later. If anybody has any questions, please post them. I don't think I've said anything earth shattering here, but I think that a lot of the H v. Y v. P threads tend to regurgitate the same information that is not actually all that relevant to students, so I'm trying to help. </p>

1 Like

<p>And please disagree with me if you think I’ve said something incorrect. Some of my observations are probably off the mark. </p>

<p>Thanks for writing this…always great to have a person who’s just finished something to give a perspective. </p>

<p>Yes, thanks for your opinion. My daughter chose Princeton over Yale. But some Princeton kids don’t seem to love it there while Yale kids seem to all be happy. Did you find that most Yalies loved the school?</p>

<p>As a parent, I was not pleased at all with yale – and my child just graduated from yale . . . </p>

<p>Yes, but it sometimes is a little forced. There has been a lot of talk about mental health recently and a common complaint is people feeling the need to appear happy all the time. I actually didn’t love my time there, but I do love the university and think they probably do more than anywhere else to make sure that students have a good experience. That being said, I didn’t go to Princeton, so I don’t really know how it works there. My perception is that people who dislike Princeton dislike it because they felt excluded from things, that social life was too stratified. I think that’s probably less the case at Yale than at Princeton, though it does happen.</p>

<p>One thing to consider too, is that people studying the humanities tend to be happier in college than science and engineering students, I believe, and Yale is more humanities focused. I remember seeing something about student satisfaction published by either Princeton or Yale that indicated that. The people I know who seem to think Yale is the greatest place in the world tend to be more humanities focused. </p>

<p>Great post my daughter chose Yale due to the strength of the humanities program and was uncomfortable at Princeton due to the existence of the dining clubs and did not apply. </p>

<p>Bugs, please, for the love of god, STOP SPAMMING EVERY YALE THREAD. If you were unhappy with you kid’s experience, that’s fine. BUT PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY. Your comments are bordering on trolling.</p>

<p>

DS was living there in the “gap” year after he graduated also.</p>

<p>New Haven is almost like his second “hometown”, close to 8 years and counting.</p>

<p>DS’s roommate for 3 years in college is a humanity major. At one time, DS told us that his roommate is always very contented with his life. We are so glad that DS had such a very friendly roommate in college.</p>

<p>DS also told us that, while in college, he valued the activities in the evening very much, sometimes even more so than his daytime activities. It seems to me that he had a very good time there.</p>

<p>OP, Thanks for your post. It is very informative.</p>

<p>@bugsliberty: Yes, bugs please TELL US why you and your child hated Yale so much. I can tell you exactly why my son loves Yale and why my daughter hates Harvard . . . so, please enlighten us as to why your family has been unhappy!</p>

<p>My son graduated from Yale a year ago, and liked it very much–my daughter just finished her second year, and also likes it very much, but has perhaps had a few more issues than he did, mostly related to interpersonal issues with other students. I don’t think she regrets her decision to go there at all, though. They are both humanities students, and I do think it’s probably true that humanities students are happier at Yale than STEM students–there is just so much for them, and it’s right there in the central campus area where they live–I think that matters. I think STEM students are generally happy too–especially if they have broad interests and also like the humanities.</p>

<p>My son also graduated a year ago. He loved his experience (in an integrated major that bridges math and the humanities). He viewed Yale’s location as a positive. New Haven is far from a world class city, but its location means student life centers on campus, something he loved. There are also opportunities for students to make a difference in NH and to help build a positive partnership between the city and Yale. One of the most satisfying things my son did at Yale was free tax prep for low income NH residents through a Yale undergrad initiative. </p>

<p>Great thread, thanks @GFM2014‌, DD will be matriculating in the fall so it’s always nice to hear what other students have to say. Can you speak to the study abroad resources? Your residential college? Career counseling resources? Finding on-campus jobs? </p>

<p>I would love to know what @bugsliberty‌ issues are with Yale. Everyone I spoke to during BDD loves Yale. </p>

<p>Even DDs adcom admitted during a conversation that no school is perfect every day of the week, which was nice to hear. Because DD had so many choices and was having a tough time figuring it all out. </p>

<p>FWIW: Going back through Bugs’ history, her daughter seems to have made an unwise financial decision to attend Yale and turned down a full scholarship at Wake. <a href=“Yale vs Duke Robertson - #18 by bugsliberty - Yale University - College Confidential Forums”>Yale vs Duke Robertson - #18 by bugsliberty - Yale University - College Confidential Forums;

</p>

<p>For the record, every college is full of rich kids who can afford to pay the full sticker price. My kids, however, are not among them, as both are on mega-financial aid that brings the cost of attendance down to below what we would have paid to our flagship state school. If we had the richness of choices that bugs’ daughter had, my kid would be at Wake – and I think that’s the regret that is leading to Bugs’ bad mouthing of the school.</p>

<p>And plenty of kids from affluent homes are pleasant, friendly, and humble. Rich is not synonymous with jerky.</p>

<p>So true. I agree with the last 2 posts. </p>

<p>^^ My son regularly hangs out with what he affectionately calls the 24-pack, 12 girls and 12 guys that have remained friends from his entryway since freshman year. My son is probably the poorest of the bunch (some of the kids are from ultra-wealthy families), but all of them, without exception, have been pleasant, kind, and friendly. So, I’m in agreement: rich is not synonymous with jerky.</p>

<p>@NewHavenCTmom‌ </p>

<p>I studied abroad in Africa for a summer using my international student award which was a $10,000 grant that I received through financial aid. Few people study abroad during the year. I believe everybody on financial aid gets an ISA with the actual amount depending on financial need. $10,000 is the maximum. Many people also travel the world with various groups like their a capella groups, the concert band and even some club teams, I believe. </p>

<p>My residential college was great. The master and dean were wonderful and always helpful. The residential college system is amazing. </p>

<p>Class has become an increasingly talked about subject at Yale. Lower income students are not complaining that wealthy students are jerks, but they do often feel uncomfortable at Yale. I was a “low income”, first generation student, and I would’ve been more comfortable and probably would’ve performed better academically if I had gone to my state university. Then again, my best friend at Yale is very wealthy.
There have been a few articles recently about the topic. <a href=“We Don't Talk About It - Yale Daily News”>http://yaledailynews.com/magazine/2013/11/07/we-dont-talk-about-it/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The problem is not specific to Yale. All of Yale’s peer schools are going to be drawing from similar pools of students. I think the residential college system probably makes it easier. The point of the colleges is to keep people from self segregating, but it can make it a little harder for “different” students to find a large enough community within their colleges. Anecdotal evidence tells me that lower income students are more likely to go outside their residential colleges in forming their social networks. I think senior societies can end up a bit segregated by class - not intentionally, just that like attracts like and the most successful and popular students are often the ones from more privileged backgrounds. Societies aren’t that big of a deal though. It’s my impression that this is a much bigger problem with the selective eating clubs at Princeton and maybe the finals clubs at Harvard. One advantage Harvard has is that it has a larger number of low income students, both in an absolute sense and as a % of the undergrad student body. Yale is focusing more on that now, so maybe that will change. I think of HYPS, S is considered the leader in this regard. A lot of the cultural organizations deal with class issues. From what I understand, though, low income white and Asian students tend to fall through the cracks. An Asian American student recently told me that it was often assumed that since he was Asian, he was wealthy. Groups that tend to be predominantly white also tend to be predominantly wealthy, since white students are generally the wealthiest ones. Again, I doubt this is Yale specific. In my experience, Yalies are great people; it can just be a difficult transition for some. </p>

<p>Edit: One other thing is that Yale is more humanities focused, which tends to attract wealthier students who have been more exposed to high culture. Maybe attract isn’t the right word, but it’s an environment that is going to be somewhat more comfortable for students with greater exposure to literature, music, philosophy etc. It’s not that Yale is snooty at all, but a lot of the students are interested in, and want to talk about, topics that may be unfamiliar to students that don’t have the same cultural capital. At the same time, though, that focus is one of the best things about Yale, and the thing that I appreciate the most from my Yale education. </p>

<p>Interesting…Do you feel that being in this type of environment, surrounded by those with cultural capital, increased your cultural capital? If you had it to do all over again, would you go to a state school? Or do you feel like Yale was the best decision?</p>

<p>I believe I’ve read that an Ivy League education is most beneficial to people who don’t have that kind of cultural capital (how they measured that, I have no idea). To give an extreme example, John F. Kennedy and George W. Bush would’ve been successful no matter where they had gone to school. A lot of people believe that this gain in cultural capital is the real benefit of an Ivy League education, and I think there is a lot to that, and not in a shady, nepotistic way. Most of your grades and formal learning come from reading books and taking tests and writing papers no matter where you go. A big difference between Yale and regular State U is the kinds of things you are exposed to and the expectations they have for you. This may sound silly, but I feel like I got a kind of “view from the top” that my friends who went to, and did very well at, public schools didn’t have. </p>

<p>I don’t know if I would do it differently. I certainly don’t think I made the wrong choice. Every decision has risks, costs and benefits, and choosing to attend Yale was a very solid decision. My grades at Yale were not good, so my options for grad school are limited. Still, I got way more support at Yale than I ever would’ve at a public school, I’ve been exposed to people and ideas that I never would’ve. Most Yalies will probably tell you that the most valuable thing to them was not their classes. That’s a good thing, because I believe that the classes at Yale are as good as you’re going to get outside of maybe a couple places like Amherst and Williams. </p>

<p>They have a summer bridge program now that is designed to help students from more at risk backgrounds adjust to Yale, and I think that seems like a very positive step. </p>