<p>The OPs son has two failing grades, not one. His current grades are Bs not As. The general rule of thumb is +1450 for Dartmouth and other elite schools. The OP asked about Dartmouth. My son had higher SATs and better grades from a very competitive feeder school. He missed out on one of his matches and his EA reach. However, he's been extremely well-served where he landed.</p>
<p>I don't know if URM would be considered here but I am american and my husband is from Pakistan/muslim. Would you put this down for the "race" questions and if so how would you list it? Its not really asian or I guess he could click "other".
I appreciate all the many opionons here, and the truth is despite if you don't agree I do think its a crapshoot, I truly do. At least in my sons school and within our own circle of family/friends we have seen many many situations play out in a way which totally shocked everyone, many getting into schools which no one thought they would even get waitlisted to and equally very qualified kids not getting into schools they were well qualified for. Many articles, books and publications do refer to this being quite arbitrary and make references to no one really knowing what goes on inside those doors, what they are looking for and how that funky kid who plays the cello, collects exotic pets, scored well but not superb on his tests, has a healthy GPA might just fit into what they are looking for, surpassing some who might have higher scores/gpa but are not "interesting" so I encourage him to continue to shoot for the stars and he is bound to land on one!</p>
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He has gotten in a few packets from some very high end schools like Dartmouth, neither of us knows why so he would never dream to apply to schools like that,
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I don't this student is considering schools like Dartmouth. If he is, he should build his best case, but realize that they are extremely high reaches, maybe beyond-the-beyond.</p>
<p>ctmom, I think a lot of us feel like it is a "crapshoot," "lottery" or whatever, sometimes. I think the common wisdom here on cc (which collectively is a <em>very</em> wise place ;) ) is that there is much logic to it when seen from the inside. But it is sometimes hard to see that logic from the outside - especially when we often see only some parts of the application/applicant. We don't see the recs, the essays, what the GC says, how the kid interviewed (if that was part of it). And it will ever be true that at the very most selective schools, students with every bit of qualification will not get in. The schools tell us that at every turn, because it is so. Therefore, one should never count on any school like that. In fact, one should never count on <em>any</em> school until you have that rolling or EA admission in hand.</p>
<p>Which, by the way, would be an excellent strategy for your son. Have him apply to some of the less reach-y schools on his list, which might have non-binding EA or rolling admissions. With that approach, he can have one or more acceptances IN HAND before December 15. From there, he can pinpoint the more reach-y schools he'd like to go for and focus on them.</p>
<p>Many of our kids took this approach. Makes for a much less stressful application season.</p>
<p>jmmom, no he is not applying to any ivies for sure. For whatever reason he has gotten mailings and invitations to visit, I have no idea why nor does he. In any case, though rolling and Ea sound good he will not be able to show any senior grades by those deadlines and most feel its really important that he be able to show as much of his senior year as possible, do you agree?</p>
<p>With regard to the other things besides the cold hard numbers, he has spearheaded a cultural club for american/pakistani students, has about 300 comm. service hours, and has held four jobs in the last three years, Two summer jobs and two jobs he still does. His essay is exceptional according to his english teacher, and two other teachers. That about sums what he has going for him other than his new found drive to really do his personal best and ithink for now that is going to have to be good enough and wherever he lands, he lands....its out of our hands.</p>
<p>ctmom - I don't know if he needs to show those senior grades for some schools. If you like, why don't you let us know which schools that he's considering do have rolling or non-binding EA options. He seems to be quite strong for some of the schools on his list. But, if I/we knew which offer the EA/rolling, we could look a little more closely at the accepted student profiles and see how he stacks up. </p>
<p>You would not believe how good it feels - to him and to you (and to we, your fan club :) ) - to have that early acceptance in hand. A kid with 1300+ SATs is a very very strong applicant for some schools (I'm not talking Villanova or BU here, for example; but some of the others on his list). He's got the 3.0/3.5 average. He has a lot going for him. If I were he, I would pick out the safety schools where his scores are in the top 25% and his GPA is a good % of the admitted students and go early, if I could.</p>
<p>St. Joseph's, Fairfield and Quinnipiac look like they might fit that bill. If they have EA/rolling, we could look a little deeper into the accepted student profiles (the stats I posted were from collegeboard; they can tend to be a year or so old; so we would look for the Common Data Set for each school). These are all things we "veterans" here on cc can help you with.</p>
<p>Hey, we have no life ;). Seriously, many of us have gained so much here when our kids were in the hunt. We enjoy giving back to others who are newer to the process.</p>
<p>Thanks so much, I cannot tell you how much it means to have this "support system" in place. The thing is he is really not interested at all in St. Joseph's and for that matter not Quinnipiac or Fairfield either to the point where he doesnt' really think he would even want to attend if he got in! Its frustrating for me, Miami and BC offer EA as does Northeastern........not sure if he should take advantage of that though. I need some solid advice on this, also for race or ethic background what would you put he is half pakistani/half american, can we "play this up" at all? I would only want to do it if its the right thing to do. Thank you!</p>
<p>Does his essay focus on his dual identity? If not, he could check several boxes (Caucasian; Asian) and mention it in one of the shorter essays ("Is there anything else...?" His teachers or GC could also mention it.</p>
<p>By the way, teachers and GC's need as much help as you and S can provide to write effective recs. So your S should provide anecdotes that will job the teachers' memory; provide concrete examples of the things they want to write about (not just "student X is a wonderful writer" but "student X wrote a wonderful paper on Shakespeare's The Tempest, focusing on the relationship between Prospero and Caliban as colonizer and colonized....)</p>
<p>I agree with most that your son has a lot going for him. What he does need to work on is finding safety schools that he could feel great about attending. The book Colleges That Change Lives by Loren Pope is a good source for great schools that are admissions bargains. Your son's guidance office or your local library would probably have it. Do you--or does he--have geographic limits on where to apply? Going outside your local area can give another admissions advantage, because schools are looking for geographic diversity. My other favorite book on the subject--Winning the Heart of the College Admissions Dean--is packed with great advice and really stresses having 8 (or so) dream schools, some of them safeties for admissions and financial aid, if that's needed. A safety school your child doesn't want to attend is a waste of time and effort.</p>
<p>Agree with bethievt. bethie, I think ctm said that they do not want him to go outside of the Northeast. If they don't change that criterion, I think he really needs to cull his list - drop those schools he wouldn't even want to attend and find some safe schools he <em>would</em> want to attend.</p>
<p>ctm, has he visited? I think there is a "safety school" syndrome - kind of along the lines of "I wouldn't want to be a member of any club that would take me." It is hard, for a lot of kids, to get excited about a school that seems "lesser" in some way. But kids can and do step onto campuses of the less selective schools and feel they could really be at home there. So he NEEDS some safe schools that are similar to his dream schools in as many ways as possible, just less selective. If BU/Northeastern/Villanova are his dreams, then maybe American U or similar are the safer versions of BU? I certainly would have seen Fairfield/St. Joe's as safer versions of Nova.... do you think it's the <em>safeness</em> of them that harms the appeal? He needs to have a heart-to-heart with himself about that.</p>
<p>If you can see him breaking your geographic criterion, a school like Santa Clara University in (gasp) California is similar in many ways to Villanova - Catholic tradition but welcoming to non-Catholics, great area, really really wants to increase the male ratio. St. Louis U is another variation on that theme. There are many. Maybe Duquesne in Pittsburgh, U Scranton? These are just suggestions to start the brainstorm rolling.</p>
<p>As to what ethnicities etc to check. My opinion: every applicant should take advantage of every honest advantage they have. That said, I'm not sure which "boxes" fit him. At some schools, being Asian is <em>over</em> represented so not as much of a help, but possible a help in the schools he is considering.</p>
<p>Being Asian is "over" represented at some schools, but not at others. As well, being part Pakistani is going to be seen as an advantage at many, as there are not that many applicants of Pakistani origins, especially, first generation applicants.</p>
<p>Both BU and Northeastern are very large schools; but some of the NE LACs would welcome an opportunity to increase their diversity. I'd suggest Wheaton in MA and Bowdoin in ME.</p>
<p>So, marite, perhaps instead of checking the "Asian" box, would you suggest the applicant check "Other" and specify Pakistani or "half-Pakistani?"</p>
<p>Yes, this is what I would advise. There is a world of difference between, say, a student from the PRC and one from Indonesia or Cambodia, or Bangladesh or, for that matter, any other country of Asia.</p>
<p>ok some bottom line I should check asian or other and specify Pakistani? I can't think you enough for all this helpful advice, Iam feeling so much better!! Yes American is another school we are considering, have heard great things and we are going to look there and GW. He has gotten taken away with the "name brands" of schools and unfortunately Ca. is out of the question, for many reasons. We are continuing to look and Ireally agree with what someone said about the GC being someone who can provide A LOT of insight about my son,she doesn't know him really well but we are meeting next week and I am going "to fill her in" she may have assumed a lot but I dont' think even knows neither of his parents are college grads. I think she assumes I am because I hear from people all the time that they think I am highly educated and are surprised to hear I am not, a compliment of course so she may have assumed the same. I think the meeting will be very productive in getting this whole process off the ground. Thank you AGAIN!!</p>
<p>And ctmom, when you have that meeting... if you haven't planned already, include questions about the track record of his school at the schools he's considering. I think the best data on "likelihood" of acceptance is the experience of similar kids from the same school - although it is not perfect either.</p>
<p>If your S isn't already sure of which teachers should do his recs, a good GC might also know who takes the time to write really good ones.</p>
<p>a personal insight - if your son is considering communications as a major and Syracuse is on his list, I will say that acceptance directly into Newhouse is very, very competitive. I've seen percentage reports as low as 10%.</p>
<p>However, if a student is applying to Syracuse, gets rejected from Newhouse, but lists LAS as their second choice and gets in, it's much easier to transfer into Newhouse once you're already a student at Syracuse. Several of my daughter's friends have done it that way.</p>
<p>Regarding whether schools ask about the parents' education, I vaguely remember a place on the Common Application that asks the highest education level of each parent. So it does get asked.</p>
<p>Also, regarding your son's 9th grade year and family issues. If he has any secondary essays to write (you say he's already finalized his primary essay), and he wishes to speak to the struggles he experienced and lessons he learned along the way that sparked his new-found priority on academics, then I say go for it. He doesn't have to focus on justifying the 9th grade stats, but on how he was able to take the lessons he learned from those difficult times and apply them to his academic goals and identifying new priorities in his life. I do think adcoms like to see students who face adversity (and we all know that certain family issues are rank with adversity and it's amazing kids dig themselves out)and are able to apply the lessons they learn to other areas of their lives.</p>
<p>American is a great school--I know 2 students there now who are taking full advantage of the DC location. Another good NE school and admissions bargain is Clark U in Worchester MA.</p>
<p>Check "other", and write "Pakistani" next to it. Your child will be at a disadvantage if he is lumped in with Asians.
Find a financial safety school that he likes. (VERY IMPORTANT!)
Maybe apply to some schools a little further away - geographical diversity will help in the merit aid/admittance department.
Having parents who DID NOT graduate from college is a HUGE admittance boost at many elite colleges. If he is interested in any of the ivies or top colleges, go ahead and have him apply. These schools often have more generous financial aid policies, and such high costs that more people qualify for need-based aid.</p>
<p>For Communications and a less hyper-competitive shot than Syracuse's, look into Ithaca College in rural upstate NY (same town as Cornell, but two different schools). They have a new interdisciplinary major called "Culture and Communications" with a dean dedicated to just the interdisciplinary majors.</p>
<p>My S didn't get into Syracuse U, and didn't get into Ithaca College's communication school. (Don't cry, he got in to 2 other places and is thriving now.)</p>
<p>But he had such a good reception from Ithaca College, even though they didn't take him into that very competitive Film/Communications school he wanted (yes, l0% admit rates are no fun).</p>
<p>Ithaca, along with the rejection from the Film/COmmunications department, sent an acceptance IF he'd pick a less popular major. On that list was something called "Culture and Communications" with some of the same courses, and plenty of exciting flexibility. Another Interdisciplinary major was Geriatric Studies, truly interesting.</p>
<p>I don't know but I'm guessing rural Ithaca College could use a bit of help on its diversity. It's an extremely progressive rural community in terms of its
politics, culture .. so, not your typical upstate farm town, by any means! Also it's gorgeous there. </p>
<p>There's a lot to recommend for a small private LAC; the kid won't get lost in the shuffle.</p>
<p>Throw in your flagship state university as a safety. I think he would get in at just about any flagship with no trouble. I would think the improvement in grades would help a lot, but BU & Northeastern are really popular right now, you just never know how things will shape up.</p>