<p>So often on CC threads, Bard is listed as a safety option. Right now, the selectivity seems to be about 28%, with the 75th percentile CR SAT at 740 and average GPA greater than 3.5. To me, this looks quite selective! And, when I see the academic requirements (L&T, moderation), it looks like a very rigorous school. </p>
<p>So, I guess my question is, is Bard less selective and rigorous than I think? </p>
<p>My son is looking for a school that will be as intellectually stimulating as possible, both in and out of the classroom. We think Bard would be such a school, but I do get mixed signals from what I read sometimes. </p>
<p>He thought the IDP seminar was great, and we wonder if class discussions would be as engaging on a fairly regular basis if he attended.</p>
<p>Class discussions are indeed as engaging…the lion’s share have 15 or so students, and classes are taught seminar-style.</p>
<p>I think the reason Bard appears less selective is due to the crossover-application couplings. In other words, people who apply to Bard generally also apply to schools like Brown, Wesleyan and Vassar, which are ranked higher (for whatever that’s worth).</p>
<p>I also think Bard is looking for “something else” beyond high grades, high scores, and the basic hard-driving extracurriculars. Indeed, the kind of people who would have Bard as their first choice are not likely to be cheerleaders or yearbook editors. They’re more likely to be entrepreneurs, actors, writers, and musicians. The grades and scores may be similarly high to Wesleyan applicants, but the applicant’s “big picture” is likely to be much different.</p>
<p>I could be wrong, but I think I’m right. ;)</p>
<p>Bard places a great deal of emphasis on reading, analysis, and writing.</p>
<p>Bard is also one of the few schools out there (Oberlin & Reed also come to mind) which has rigorous academics, but has embraced the arts with all eight arms. I would say if your son is looking for an engineering degree, there are probably better picks. But I’d say if your son wanted to double major in, say, Economics and Russian Literature, and if he loves the great outdoors (2000 students, 600 acres, you do the math), then put him on a train up to Annandale. :)</p>
<p>In addition to what Heyalb said - Bard has become much more selective in the last couple of years, so its reputation as a safety school is definitely changing. It is probably still a good bet for some Brown/Wesleyan/Vassar hopefuls but not an easy admit.</p>
<p>RE #3: circa 2003 Bard accepted 44% of applicants, 27% chose to attend, avg of midpoint SATs was 1325.
At the same time,
Wesleyan 26% 40% 1365
Vassar was 34%, 36%, 1355.
Oberlin 39%, 34% 1340
Connecticut College 34%, 32% 1308
(don’t have skidmore)</p>
<p>Skie is correct, if monydad’s numbers are from 2003. For fall 2009, Bard accepted 28% of its applicants, 34% chose to attend, avg midpoint SATs was 1330.</p>
<p>heyalb is right they are looking for something besides academics and extracurriculars. I received my acceptance letter today and I only had a 1280 SAT (Cr + M) and a 92 average. I interviewed through IDP and we didn’t really talk about academics at all, but I think what got me in was my honesty in the interview and my clear interest in “learning for the sake of learning”.</p>
Well said. My daughter got in far more selective schools than Bard, including the top-ranked LAC at the time, but she chose Bard. From the very first week of L&T she knew she had made the right choice. Bard was challenging but interesting, thought-provoking, and enlightening. The professors were stimulating, approachable, and involved. </p>
<p>Now in her third year, she knows it was the right choice…for her. The numbers are just numbers. The SAT range is because Bard is SAT optional. It could even be lower than stated but then as the father of a NMSQT finalist, I still know those numbers aren’t everything they’re cracked up to be. The fact that Bard only accepts “5s” for AP credit should give you an idea of their expectations. The existence of L&T tells you they don’t put much stock in high-school education, h-s rank, or GPAs. They’re looking for smart kids with a thirst for knowledge for its own sake. Not just for grades. </p>
<p>Bard is also far more self-selecting than other schools. Meaning few apply to Bard who don’t really fit. It’s a bit unique and that keeps the applicant pool low so the acceptance rate seems that much higher. It doesn’t make it a safety for anyone other than those who will thrive in a special place like Bard. You can throw those other schools’ stats into the discussion but none of them have what makes Bard such a special place for those kids who find it and want what it offers them. </p>
<p>This is not my only child, or the only college with which I have experience. And I always feel compelled to say Bard isn’t for everyone. It’s not intended to be. But if you’re attracted to it for the right reasons, you’ll love what it can give back.</p>
<p>You really need to visit Bard. My kid started with Bard on her short list, and included it on our first trip to visit a half-dozen colleges in the east. She should get in to a “top 25” school, but not a top 10. Bard qualifies. But we she decided less than half-way throught the tour that Bard was NOT the place for her. She didnt react this way to any of the other 13 we visited. I had the same reaction, which was a a first for me out of the 25 I’ve visited with multiple kids.</p>
<p>No one who knows Bard will ever tell you it’s right for everyone. Those who find it right for them will tell you it’s the best. My daughter visited three times. She was hooked on it from the first trip but understood that other schools offered better packages, better dorms, better food, had more prestige, and perhaps better networking as an alum. But weighing all that, she still couldn’t shake the great feeling she got from Bard, the faculty, the students she met, and the campus. And her experience there has been beyond expectations. </p>
<p>You should visit. And you might hate it. Ninety-five percent of the kids my daughter went to high-school with would turn up their noses at Bard. I’m glad they’re not there! This thread began questioning those standard stats that everyone uses to rank schools. Those facts don’t fit Bard anymore than a Bard experience fits everyone. It all depends on what you’re looking for and what’s important to you, and that should be unique for everyone. We don’t all drive Toyotas (and that includes Lexus). ;)</p>
<p>I just want to say I agree with Proud Dad 100%. My freshman son sounds just like his daughter, National Merit finalist and all. It wouldn’t have been the right school for my older son who graduated from a more pre-professional oriented highly ranked liberal arts college, but I think that’s his loss, actually. It certainly would be the right school for me, if I were able to be a college student again!</p>
<p>The more I look at Bard, the more I realize what a fascinating place it is. I am particularly impressed with all the community initiatives it has taken and how that enhances opportunities for the students on campus. It really seems like a place that emphasizes the life of the mind, but tries to move education out of the ivory tower and use it as a means to improve the world.</p>
<p>Some of the opportunities available on campus that I really like the Prison Initiative, the West Point Exchange and the intergenerational seminars which area residents and Bard students attend together. </p>
<p>I was very taken by Botstein’s comments at IDP that most colleges run like banks, hoarding money in large endowments. I had never really thought about this before, and looked at the huge amount of money my alma mater is sitting on and then saw how much Bard is doing for the world with the little it has. I really don’t think I am going to give any more to my alma mater – they have enough to take them to the end of the millenium! – and no matter where my son ends up next year, will consider giving it to Bard instead!</p>
<p>I’m applying to Wesleyan and Brown in addition to Bard, but even if I get into them (unless they give me considerably more financial aid), I plan on going to Bard. I got a vibe from Bard that I got from no other school. I would much rather go a smaller, quirkier school than a larger, more prestigious one. I like the freedom Bard gives its students while still being challenging. I like how it emphasizes the arts while also being strong in science. I like the architecture. I like how every single student walking around looks like someone I’d like to meet and have a conversation with. I did IDP and I loved it. If every class at Bard is filled with people that are as enthusiastic and interesting as my fellow “IDP-ers,” next year is going to be HEAVEN. I can’t wait!</p>
<p>I think that the perception of many people is that it is a “safety school,” but that doesn’t mean that’s the reality.</p>
<p>I’m also curious how the reality of the student body matches the perception of it as a “hipster” school. I know that element is there, but my sense is that it’s more diverse than that (at least I’m hoping so). </p>
<p>Also wondering whether well-rounded political discourse takes place? My son is definitely politically liberal, but he is prepared to play devil’s advocate if he attends a school where opinions are all one-sided. I wanted to ask this question of Botstein at IDP, but time ran out and i didn’t get called on… </p>
<p>I am convinced that Bard would be a great, great place for him to go, but he is still going through with a variety of other applications and wants to keep his options open, which is a good course of action.</p>
<p>My impression, both from listening to Botstein, and hearing about the discourse in my son’s classes is that although the college is liberal it is neither dogmatic nor politically correct. In fact it seems a lot less politically correct than many of its peer institutions. We live in Berkeley, and my sons were indoctrinated in political correctness from an early age. We have no patience with it despite our own progressive leanings. So far it seems to me that Bard is a wise place, open to learning and thinking, and never accepting anything as truth until evaluated and analysed from all directions.</p>
<p>As for the hipsters - we’re West Coasters so I only guess at the term. Is there a negative to hipsters? I think of beatniks - which to me is appealing… Yes, there are lots of intellectual artsy kids who love to read and talk about ideas. I’m delighted those are the peers for my son!</p>
<p>Ok - I got the lowdown from my son on hipsters - now that he’s home. He’s not fond of them himself - says they wear tight pants, smoke cigarettes, take drugs, are arrogant and scornful. And yes, there are quite a few at Bard. But his love for the college is unabated! Went to a party last night where there was a high school senior accepted Early Action and he told her she’d be a fool to go anywhere else.</p>
<p>Thank you to everyone who has commented on this thread. I’ve found it very helpful!</p>
<p>My son was accepted to Bard EA. We visited it for the first time last week, just before it closed down for the winter break, so there were fewer students than usual on campus. The tour was brief, I didn’t get a single straightforward answer from any of the official guides and - having a cousin who failed moderation and let it wreck his life - I was filled with questions and concerns. </p>
<p>My son loved it. He loved everything about it. The students we met were brimming with excitement and plans for the future, gleeful and upbeat about the individualized attention they received from professors and the administration. As our tour guide put it, Bard is all about yes. Can I try to do this thing? Yes. Can I try it this way? Yes. There was a concrete example of Bard’s open-minded approach on campus. An art student, a sophomore at the time, took an art project from paper to completion with the school’s active backing and support. They supplied funds, art students and physics majors to work with her. The result is a sculpture on campus that is a combination of a merry-go-round, tether-ball action swing for four. It is fun, fascinating and belongs in playgrounds everywhere. And it was designed by a 19 year old who had an idea. </p>
<p>My attitude was transformed by that story, and the play-writing major who told me his dept’s senior thesis requirement is a full production of a play written by the student, performed by students, but directed and designed by NY theater professionals paid for by Bard! He’s just started his application process but my son may have found a home already.</p>
<p>thank you for your wonderful posts! bard wasn’t exactly among my top top choices but as i contacted bard’s football coach and other students and read many posts on forum, it become my 1st choice. i just hope, if i get in, i’ll get adequate fa.</p>