I Don't Like Volunteering

Applying to College
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<p>"How would one count volunteer time like that? For instance, if I listed all the times I've helped people or made the community better, I could have several pages of items. But none of that stuff adds up. When students at school ask me for help with their homework, I might take 5 minutes and explain something. "</p>

<p>That kind of stuff doesn't go on applications. It's simply the actions that most people take to be nice to their friends, classmates and neighbors. If you put things like that on your application, admissions officers will wonder about your character because you'll sound like someone who thinks they should get some kind of recognition for simply being a normal, caring human being.</p>

<p>People who are doing volunteer work are doing the kind of things that you're doing as well as things that do count as volunteer work. </p>

<p>I can not tell you how unsettled I am to see how you're trying to find ways using ordinary kind behavior as a way of fattening your college apps. That kind of thinking disturbs me far more than that of people who spend thousands to try to impress colleges by doing "volunteer" work abroad (and I am not impressed by such "volunteer" work).</p>

<p>You do realize that people like me who respond to your posts on CC are volunteers, too, by your standards. Do you think we should be listing such things on our college and job apps?</p>

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<p>I think it is understandable if teenagers, in their personal era of self-absorption, do not feel like doing volunteer work. Naturally, I wish it were otherwise, but not everyone "blooms" at the same time. On the other hand, I also think it is completely just for top schools to flatly reject these students (unless they have some kind of unusual condition which makes withdrawl from typical social involvement their baseline). </p>

<p>There are enough kids who have great grades and scores, passions and achievements outside of the classroom, AND an authentic drive to help their fellow man. Those coveted admission spots should be reserved for the best and the brightest in every category.</p>

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<p>^^I disagree. It's not that certain professions (i.e., science) have some misanthropic people who are socially withdrawn (although there are some people like that.) If you are going to become a medical researcher, it is more altruistic to concentrate on school than to be juggling a bunch of community service activities. An overabundance of non-academic activities can distract you from real intellectual growth. In fact, Dr. Watson (discoverer of the double helix) said that community service by undergrads and high schoolers was a waste of time. He said this following a community service award ceremony at the University of Chicago.</p>

<p>There are certain people who will end up managing organizations and juggling activities as their main job, and I guess for these people maybe it is good practice to be organizing fundraisers, etc, during high school. However, for those whose goal is to do creative work, it is better to push yourself intellectually. Organizational skills can always be aquired later. A little bit of community service done in breaks from school (~50-100 hours) is not that bad, but it's important to not get bogged down. I did about 80 hours of community service over 2 summers, and while I thought it was rewarding to stretch myself a little, it would have been a really bad idea to do it during school or spend more time doing it. </p>

<p>Anyway, I've seen a lot of the community service activities that high schoolers do and it seems sort of mickey mouse a lot of the time. Aside from grunt work that people need like volunteering in the hospital/soup kitchen, the things high schoolers organize by themselves generally do not accomplish anything except to pad their own resume's. Also, elite colleges don't seem to do a great job at recognizing who is doing it genuinely.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I just thought of something I could possibly do. My school's computer administrator is extremely busy, and it's really taking a toll on her since she's...well...not young. I can design web pages, and I know a lot of the programming involved in creating web pages. The school website is not efficient, and it would be better if someone had time to update it frequently. If I helped with something like this, would that be volunteering or just something I should do anyway, since I'm taking one of the administrator's classes?

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<p>I know I'm a bit late on replying here, but yes, do it! This is definitely volunteering!</p>

<p>I'm a big fan of giving back to society, but I also understand your cynicism, and now that you've explained I understand better why what your friend has done bothers you. The key, as I hope that you've realized from this thread, is that you can transcend the cynicism-inducing practices of the people around you while still volunteering, and that you can do things that you enjoy while volunteering.</p>

<p>I know I sort of already said this, but it really is sad that the way volunteering is treated by college admissions - as another hoop that must be jumped through - CAUSES people who might have done it on their own to be cynical about it or turned off by it because they associate it with a distasteful process.</p>

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<p>"If you are going to become a medical researcher, it is more altruistic to concentrate on school than to be juggling a bunch of community service activities."</p>

<p>No one has to spend 24/7 concentrating on school.</p>

<p>That doesn't mean that if one is spending one's spare time doing science fair and other activities that support one's academics and relate to one's career interests, one has to volunteer. But most people have some time to devote to community service. I also think that it's good for most people to give back since everyone, especially high school students in the U.S., is and has been the recipient of many people's volunteer services. Saying that one will give back by being a well paid researcher isn't what I mean when I talk about giving back for the unpaid services that people have given you.</p>

<p>"Aside from grunt work that people need like volunteering in the hospital/soup kitchen, the things high schoolers organize by themselves generally do not accomplish anything except to pad their own resume's. "</p>

<p>This is because many high school students do community service only to pad their resumes, not to truly help anyone or support some cause that they believe in. Students who are doing community service for altruistic reasons do accomplish good things even if it's just helping one child learn to read or cleaning up a neighborhood park.</p>

<p>"Also, elite colleges don't seem to do a great job at recognizing who is doing it genuinely."</p>

<p>What's your proof of this?
I can prove otherwise. Take a look at the link that I posted earlier for Harvard's Phillips Brooks House, the campus nonprofit that is student run. </p>

<p>Close to 2,000 students participate in PBH activities a year -- because they like volunteering. The projects that students organize and participate in are similar to those run by professionals. Yet, the students are volunteers who get no pay for what they do. Also, their projects aren't course requirements.</p>

<p>My experience as an alum interviewer for Harvard has been that places like Ivies are very good at sorting out those who are serious about community service from those who are doing it as resume padding. Those expensive so-called community service trips abroad don't impress Ivies even though many well off parents will send their students on such trips in hopes of gaining Ivy admissions.</p>

<p>Examples of recent Harvard accepted students whose community service impressed me during their interviews:
A student who had designed a web page for the local nonprofit that she was the only student on the board of. She had not included this on her activities sheet, but reluctantly told me about it after I asked about what she was doing as a new board member on the organization. She hadn't wanted to tell me about designing the web page because she hadn't yet completed it, and was doing it because she noted that their web page was very out of date. She thought that her deciding unasked to redesign their page was nothing to mention in an interview, but that was exactly the kind of self-generated activity that I was looking for, and it was a big contrast to studetns who have impressive sounding titles, but do nothing with those positions.</p>

<p>Another example was a young man who was accepted. He had been an Eagle Scout (which in itself isn't particularly impressive for Harvard since lots of Eagle Scouts apply), and had some state-level awards in a couple of fields, and was doing professional level software consulting work. </p>

<p>After he was admitted, I had him over to dinner with local alum who were volunteer interviewers. When he learned that one elderly woman alum had a computer that she was having problems with, he volunteered to go over to her house and help her. He did follow up on that even though there was absolutely no personal benefit to his spending time with that woman.</p>

<p>"I think it is understandable if teenagers, in their personal era of self-absorption, do not feel like doing volunteer work. "</p>

<p>Sure, it's understandable, but in my opinion, such people benefit if forced to do volunteer work by their parents, schools or by selfish interest in getting college admissions.</p>

<p>By doing volunteer work, they may find the good feeling that one gets by giving back to others. Truly, most people who do volunteer work willingly say that they get more out of the experience than they give. I certainly can say that's true for me.</p>

<p>If teens aren't pushed into exploring volunteering, they may continue being self absorbed throughout their lives, and may never volunteer. Instead, they may grow up to be the people who constantly criticize activities, their kids' schools, etc., but never lift a finger to try to make things better.</p>

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<p>" know I sort of already said this, but it really is sad that the way volunteering is treated by college admissions - as another hoop that must be jumped through "</p>

<p>This is a myth. I don't think that anyone can name one college that says that students must have volunteered to be admitted.</p>

<p>The very top colleges have such an overabundance of high stat applicants that the colleges are able to admit students based on creating a well rounded class in terms of interests, backgrounds, etc. and character. Someone who is high stat, but appears to be a very selfish individual, is not likely to be accepted even if such person has done volunteer work. Not having volunteer work on one's activity sheet will not cause someone to be rejected from an Ivy or similar school.</p>

<p>There are lots of students who somehow think that the way to impress places like Ivies is to do volunteer work abroad or amass hundreds of hours of volunteer work. What places like Ivies look for is passion about one's activities, and passion isn't determined by the amount of hours one devotes or how far away one goes to pursue one's passion. Passion is determined by how much energy, thought, etc. one puts into one's activities, and the impact one's activities have on oneself and on others.</p>

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<p>I completely understand OP. I hate community service.</p>

<p>I like to work, however, when I am getting paid for it. I know it sounds terrible but it kills me to know that when volunterring, I am working hard for stuff I should be getting paid for and that I'm doing it for free.</p>

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<p>"I like to work, however, when I am getting paid for it. I know it sounds terrible but it kills me to know that when volunterring, I am working hard for stuff I should be getting paid for and that I'm doing it for free."</p>

<p>Who doesn't like to get paid for their work?</p>

<p>How do you feel about all of the people whose free work has helped you? </p>

<p>These include the volunteers who help with school activities, clubs, cleaning roadways, etc. For instance, in the schools that my kids went to: field trips, proms, senior celebrations, playgrounds were all funded or organized or partially staffed by volunteers. This was in schools that were very solidly middle/upper middle class, incidentally, and busy parents would take time off their jobs to help out with those things including by doing very boring work to help take the load off teachers. Parents who did this included college professors, lawyers, etc. who could have gotten lots of money spending the same amount of time doing consulting work or similar work for pay.</p>

<p>If you go to a place of worship, it's likely that your church's newsletter, Sunday School and even summer camp may be staffed or organized by volunteers. If you were in Scouts, your troop leaders volunteered. </p>

<p>If you drive down a scenic roadway and it's clean, probably volunteers cleaned it up through the Adopt a Road program.</p>

<p>Given the fact that you get a lot of support from volunteers, do you feel any desire to give back to others as you have received?</p>

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<p>
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This is a myth. I don't think that anyone can name one college that says that students must have volunteered to be admitted.

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<p>I phrased this poorly. For whatever reason, people BELIEVE that one has to volunteer to be admitted - after all, that's why this thread is in the College Admissions forum. That's why people list a volunteerism section when they're posting chances threads. My bad for not writing more carefully.</p>

<p>For those already in college who'd like to volunteer - consider Alpha Phi Omega (a national, nonresidential coed service fraternity). I joined it as a sophomore and it's a lot of fun. There are several hundred chapters around the US. I've gotten to do everything from helping inner-city toddlers and preschoolers decorate pumpkins at a Halloween festival (fun) to sorting food for food banks (less fun, in my opinion), to raking leaves at parks (fun, if the weather is good) to fulfilling book requests for an organization that takes book requests from prisoners (fun, and a bit more intellectually stimulating, for those who want that in their work, since you have to find books that match the often vague requests).</p>

<p>I became a volunteer springboard diving judge for a kids' league when I was 15 because I had been in the league myself and had been annoyed at the poor quality of the judging. :) Sometimes you find opportunities by looking at the problems that you or your friends have run into.</p>

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<p>"Saying that one will give back by being a well paid researcher isn't what I mean when I talk about giving back for the unpaid services that people have given you."</p>

<p>I think you are missing my point. It isn't about doing activities or even excelling at them. The level required for making substantial contributions is extremely high and you can easily fall into the habit of just spitting back stuff in class to get the "A" if you're not careful. </p>

<p>Generally, when scientists "give back" it is through something related to education but they do it later in life when they have their professional life more established. For instance, a Nobel Laureate founded a high school in my state and used it to launch a sort of movement to create opportunities for teachers to improve their education and teaching. I'd say he was better served waiting to do this sort of thing until after he had made his major professional contributions than had he continually juggled community activities during his education. Probably he could have still gotten an "A-" in quantum mechanics instead of an "A+" even if he was involved in community service activities, but would that be a good use of his time?</p>

<p>As for doing things like the kid who helped out an old lady with her computer, yes of course people can and should do those sorts of things, but those things don't find their way to a resume'.</p>

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<p>"Generally, when scientists "give back" it is through something related to education but they do it later in life when they have their professional life more established."</p>

<p>That's not true. You can't assume that just because someone who has gained fame and wealth gives millions as an adult, this is the first time they gave back to society.</p>

<p>I have friends who are scientists, and they have been giving back all of their lives. They didn't just start once they were scientists. In some cases, their volunteering as teens led to their deciding to become scientists. </p>

<p>For instance, my former college roommate is a doctor who is head of a research department at a medical school. I remember that when she was an undergrad, she volunteered by going to the south to register voters, and she also volunteered by testing people for sickle cell trait. </p>

<p>" Probably he could have still gotten an "A-" in quantum mechanics instead of an "A+" even if he was involved in community service activities, but would that be a good use of his time?"</p>

<p>As I said before, people don't have to do their academics 24/7. Virtually every student has some time that they could do volunteer work -- and they can do this in most cases without having a drop in grades. Anyway, one doesn't need to earn straight As to have a career as a scientist.</p>

<p>In addition, while you may be most aware of the kind of large contributions that some scientists make, you have no idea about the small things that the same scientists may be doing and may have done throughout their lives. For instance, I personally know a scientist who has become a multimillionaire due to royalties from a cancer research drug. I have seen that person do the kind of volunteer work that some people here would call trivial. While the person does donate big bucks -- millions -- to various causes, the same person also serves on local boards, volunteers in local schools career days, etc.</p>

<p>Anyway, most people in the world including most people posting on CC don't have the ability or passion to become multimillionaire scientists, and to make some enormous difference in the world. It's silly to say that one can't volunteer now because one is trying to get A plus grades so as to become a renowned scientist.</p>

<p>However, virtually everyone has the ability to make some kind of difference in the world.</p>

<p>As Martin Luther King, Jr. said:
"Everybody can be great... because anybody can serve. You don't have to have a college degree to serve. You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve. You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love."</p>

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<p>Northstarmom:: ""I think it is understandable if teenagers, in their personal era of self-absorption, do not feel like doing volunteer work. "...Sure, it's understandable, but in my opinion, such people benefit if forced to do volunteer work by their parents, schools or by selfish interest in getting college admissions.</p>

<p>I don't disagree.</p>

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<p>"While the person does donate big bucks -- millions -- to various causes, the same person also serves on local boards, volunteers in local schools career days, etc."</p>

<p>As I think I've said before, these things are more natural to do when you are an adult than a high school kid. Anyway, as a current grad student I have done some volunteering (and obviously its not to pad a resume' because no one cares what grad students do in their spare time,) but I would not organize any fundraisers myself just because it's too much of a time commitment.</p>

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<p>"I have done some volunteering (and obviously its not to pad a resume' because no one cares what grad students do in their spare time,) but I would not organize any fundraisers myself just because it's too much of a time commitment."</p>

<p>Very understandable. When I was in grad school, I did very little volunteer work. Between working, classes, and being married, I didn't have much extra time. I did serve on a local board for my college, and a board related to a local church. </p>

<p>I didn't have time for large projects like fund raisers, though. I had more time for volunteer work when I was in h.s. and college, and have had major time for vol work after my kids left home. Even when they were young, however, I did do volunteer work, but on more of an occasional basis than a regular commitment. I' particularly liked the kind of volunteer work that I could do with my kids: career days, assisting with clothing drives for the needy, Habitat for Humanity and similar things.</p>

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<p>
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Anyway, most people in the world including most people posting on CC don't have the ability or passion to become multimillionaire scientists, and to make some enormous difference in the world.

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<p>That's a pretty cold and unjustifiable generalization, and immediate unjustly generalizes about those who do possess both the passion and ability.</p>

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<p>I would never put random acts of kindness on a college application. That would be a colossal waste of everyone's time. What I'm saying is that my friend does not demonstrate such acts on a regular basis, and he has actually shown some rather inconsiderate acts on many occasions. Sure, he has volunteer hours, but he is viewed as someone with a holier-than-thou attitude toward life and he doesn't seem to have much real respect for other people.</p>

<p>I'm still taking all this in. I'm by no means writing off volunteering, but I seem to lack the motivation to get anything going with it.</p>

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<p>^^ dude, she said "most". You're free to prove her wrong, and you can, if you show that >= 50% of the CC and world population has the intention and, more importantly, ability to become multimillionaire donates-buildings-to-Harvard-type scientists. What is so unfair about a statement concerning majority?</p>

<p>EDIT: this post was directed at RootBeer</p>

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<p>"(that's why we go to college right? to get a job?)."</p>

<p>I don't have the vocabulary to express how depressing this mindset is...</p>

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<p>JB, why not do HabitatforHumanity during your spring break or something? It might be fun.</p>

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<p>I couldn't agree with you more</p>