<p>Please note that the list elizabeth provided is flawed.</p>
<p>It says "Schools that chose more than half of their students through entrance examinations or other academic qualifications were not considered."</p>
<p>This implies that they rank less competitive schools where there is no basis for admissions. In other words, schools like Stuyvesant HS and TJHS, considered many to be the best public HS's in the nation are excluded from this list. </p>
<p>Summary: Bronx Science has more Nobel Prize winners than any other high school in the world. As a matter of fact, very few nations have more Nobel Prize winners than Bronx Science's 6. Founded in 1938, the first graduating class was in 1941. Within 10 years, 4 alumni would later be awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics. Two others joined them from the class of 1966. </p>
<p>No lisr is perfect. We all know the best schools in the Country are clearly those that get to choose their students. These are top private schools and magnet schools that are highly selective. The list, however, strikes me as a pretty god one for mainstream public schools.</p>
<p>Charlotte, NC does well:
Myers Park- #7 on uscollegeprep list (elizabeth's second list) :)
Providence- #48 on uscollegeprep list
Harding- #31 on washington post list (elizabeth's first list)</p>
<p>Raleigh, NC also does well:
Enloe- #35 on washington post list
-#42 on uscollegeprep list</p>
<p>What I find interesting is that all of these schools (except Providence) have exceptionally strong IB programs.</p>
<p>Here's a more current ver. I think Jay will update next summer. </p>
<p>Yes, Soccerguy, TJ has long been known to be a top school.
Newmassdad: Please post details if you can find the study which you referenced. It's been my (extremely) limited preception of top Cal HS that they do place more kids in the elite colleges, whereas the not-so-top HS never get a kid in. For example, one of the schools on Jay's list routinely places ~50 kids into Berkeley and UCLA every year, but, other HS in the state place 1-2, the val and sal.</p>
<p>I think that what newmassdad said is true of top private colleges, but not of schools like UCs that take a mostly quantative approach. When looking at 4.0/1550 students, one from a high school that is not filled with high achieving kids and not in an affluent neighborhood will stand out. At top UCs, the best CA high schools are clearly the most represented, but ELC was put in place for them to get a number of kids from the others.</p>
<p>I agree with nycschoolss, there are many schools not listed that are great, lest we forget Brooklyn Technical HS, with its famed reputation, share of Nobel Prize winners and various other luminaries in the sciences, math, and superb teachers!</p>
<p>I'll say it again, the Challenge Index should not be used to answer this question of "do I go to the best school?" It is only a measure of access to rigorous coursework in schools which do not require a qualifying exam to attend (private and magnets such as TJ, Stuy, and NCSSM). Does providing access to these courses to all students create higher expectations? Undoubtably. Does it translate into preparing ALL students for college level work? Yes. Can you use it to rank schools as to "best"? I don't believe so. I don't even like the USNews college rankings and they use something like 15 weighted categories. Mathews list only is concerned with one. Due to geographical and political influences, I can't imagine how to compare public high schools across the country with any degree of confidence.</p>
<p>Maize, you're right, and the original point of this thread was to uncover whay the majority of kids posting claim they go to a "top" high school. What data are they using?</p>
<p>Kirmum, you're sooooo sneaky. Nice job. No Child Left Behind Act, the Education Secretary, State Boards of Education, District Boards of Education, PTA's, etc., etc. are still trying to quantify this question. Can these kids do it? I'll keep reading...</p>
<p>My guess is that kids believe that they go to a "top school" because their principals, GC's and teachers tell them it is a top school -- its a self-fulfiling prophesy. Besides the kids who post on cc, I'd opine that most kids at so-called 'top' schools have not the faintest idea why they are considered 'top'. A good friend of ours is an educator in her school district, and she always reports back to us how her kid is doing at their 'top' school, at least according to the Principal's report at back to school night. However, thier 'top' school is not even in the top three in their city, at least based on quantifiable data, such as state standardized test scores and published SAT. (Demographics are a minor factor.)</p>
<p>Maize&Blue (as in UM?): Forget comparing HS across state lines...I have yet to see anything that even compares them within state, where, presumably, they have the same testing requirements.</p>
<p>bluebayou: I believe the study newmassdad was referring to was one done by a sociology prof at City University of New York back in 2001, who analyzed college admissions data for 1 million students (I'm not sure whether it was nationwide or not). Here's an excerpt from a Washington Post article about this study:</p>
<p>"Compared with students with similar test scores who remain at typical neighborhood schools, students at more demanding schools have lower grade-point averages, lower class standing and sometimes less challenging courses, the study reported. They also have much more competition from classmates for the limited number of freshman slots that elite colleges grant even the best high schools." </p>
<p>I can't link to the article because I got it off Newsbank.com, which is a subscription site, but the article is called "In College Admissions, Magnets Are Negative" by, coincidentally, Jay Mathews. Along with TJ, it featured my high school, Montgomery Blair High in Maryland, which I'm pretty sure is actually one of the best high schools in the country. It has a magnet program of 100 students per year, with an average SAT score above 1500 within the program. We usually have about 40 or 50 National Merit Semis per year, as well as the most Intel semifinalists this year, all from within the 100-student program. </p>
<p>Judging from my own tramautic college admissions experience there, I think it is true to some extent that being at an elite high school hurts your chances. But this is all kind of off topic. I think the best way of ranking high schools (if you even want to do this, which I don't really see the point of because kids pretty much go to whatever is nearby) would be some combination of average SAT, number of AP/honors courses taken, average AP scores, and percentage that go to 4-year colleges.</p>
<p>while my public certainly isnt elite, i was disappointed that it was ranked lower than some local rivals because my high school did not offer a strong AP curriculum, but instead, had the full IB Diploma curriculum. so i guess that'd make my high school underrrated.</p>
<p>New Jersey Monthly magazine ranks the HS in NJ every year. They at least attempt an unbiased ranking based on a variety of relevant factors. Very important to real estate agents!!</p>
<p>Thanks Moco. The link is attached. It's disappointing that any magnet school would not allow an already great student to take an AP or IB program, just to protect their perceived stars.</p>
<p>Maybe its my naivete, but I was astounded with the numbers accepted -- 12 into H! Besides private prep schools, do other publics do as well as Jefferson? Heck, where I come from, having ONE kid accepted into an Ivy is cause for celebration.</p>
<p>Only a few other publics do as well as TJ. Stuy and Bronx Science in NY are probably the 2. The top New England prep schools also have amazing numbers into the top colleges as well as a few top private day schools in major cities. After that, I do agree with the poster who says the other "top" schools are largely the function of zealous principals.</p>