I hate taxes!

<p>1) Product liability:
You want to stop government involvement in consumer affairs. Thus, there is no longer a CPSC or FDA in your ideal
world. This means that packages no longer have hazard warnings. There’s no minimum warranty
required on any good you purchase. Forget about (publicly funded) quality control on food. Drugs
do not need to go through a 5 year testing period. A company does what it is profitable to do, and a consumer
buys what he wishes to buy. Notice, however, that consumers now have far less information when making
purchase decisions.</p>

<p>Who does this effect? The rich could potentially create a private version of the CPSC/FDA where membership
fees will provide you with quality-controlled goods. The lower classes, however, will not be able to afford
quality control inspections. So, it will primarily be the working classes that lose. </p>

<p>These same working classes can’t sue for damages. Courts are now fee based. This means
that a judge’s salaries comes from plaintiffs and defendants. If “IKill Co.” is going to court every day,
then a majority of the judge’s salary is coming from the same company that these people are suing. There will
be conflicts of interest.</p>

<p>Does this mean that no one will sue? Hardly. There will be rich people who sue. There will be middle class
folks that go broke suing. There will be settlements and class action suits. But the individual cases aren’t
relevant. What’s relevant is that you’re provided an incentive
not to sue–by forcing plaintiffs to pay extra court fees. Less cases go to court, and product liabilities
go down. This doesn’t really help the “good” companies that are consumer-oriented, because they won’t get
many lawsuits anyways. It actually only helps the companies that previously would have been drowned in court litigations.
You are helping harmful producers find their market niche: lower class families who can not afford to sue, and have
no public protection from governmental agencies. </p>

<p>Most people would say this is bad.</p>

<p>2) Private Property rights:
As you said, you don’t plan to remove property rights. You simply don’t want government to enforce these rights.
Instead, you say that people should pay to have them enforced. I ask you: what does a person do to protect his
private? He goes to the police, or he goes to civil court. In your ideal world, these
entities are private.</p>

<p>What are the implications here? If you have private property worth $50,000, then is it worth
paying the police force a few hundred per year? Maybe not. What about if you have private property worth $500,000?
Definitely. If everyone pays a similar flat rate, then there is an incentive for the rich to buy a large police force,
and there is an incentive for the poor to have a small police force. </p>

<p>This is the opposite of what society needs. Even though a poor person has less assets, his assets are more
important (because of diminishing marginal utility). If you have a smaller police force controlling crime,
then it is the poor communities who are having their hard earned income stripped from them more often.
This is not allowing the working class mobility into higher income strata, and this mobility is an inherent
attribute of free capitalism. Not to mention that you’re increasing income disparity. Even if wealth redistribution
is not your thing, there is no reason to forcefully stratify society’s socioeconomic classes.</p>

<p>3) Intellectual Property rights:
Libertarians around the world are cringing at this one. We’ve already talked about why intellectual property
is a necessity for economic growth, so lets jump right into the implications.
You suggest that a private court system handle intellectual property disputes. This hurts the very heart of
innovation: the start up companies with no cash looking to find investors that will be the next “big thing.”
These companies apply for a patent–where? There’s no patent office without a government. Let’s assume there’s
a private equivalent of the patent office (although a private patent holding up in legal court is a strange
concept). Suppose, they’ve got their patent and someone tries to take off with a closely resembling concept.
We’re talking about the next generation’s Larry Page and Sergey Brin having to collect cash from someone
so they can pay off a judge to hear their patent protection case. </p>

<p>Now, some startups will manage to pay off the judges and defend their patent. Others won’t. Like before, the individual
cases don’t matter. But the long-term effect is that these early innovators know that even if they manage to make the next big thing,
and even if they patent in time, there’s STILL a chance that they won’t be able to defend their patents in court.
This reduces the overall number of innovators, and slows down technological advances. It won’t stop technology; it’ll just slow
it down. As mentioned, this decay in technological advancement has been proven to affect economic growth.</p>

<p>Excuse my typography and odd formatting; I did this on a text document.</p>

<p>move to the U.A.E. and you won’t EVER have to worry about taxes. Everything is virtually tax-free.</p>

<p>it’s nice cause…when i go to the store and if it says that something is for like…aed 10 (dirhams) and i go pay for it…it’s exactly that price.</p>

<p>btw you’re so lucky you got to make that much money.haha.</p>

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<p>I find this quite ironic. On the one hand a Libertarian may wish to dissolve all protection of private property rights, but would be completely unwilling to go into an anarchist system in which everything is shared, which would negate any necessity of this enforcement. Of course I suppose the Libertarian system doesn’t exactly value equality… </p>

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Rich people with private armies. Sounds like feudalism</p>

<p>I thought you wrote: I hate Texas!</p>

<p>Hmm…</p>

<p>I agree with most of your post justtotalk. However, I do think we should make the distinction between enforcing free market and controlling it.</p>

<p>A law that requires all products labelled “whole milk” to meet certain standards is good. A law that prohibits the sale of dairy products that do not meet certain standards is not.</p>

<p>Take the CPSIA: It requires massively expensive tests for ALL products that can ever be used by children. This includes custom made clothing (EACH size and style must be tested separately) and small craftsmen whose entire product run sells for less than the cost of the tests.</p>

<p>Were this law remotely enforcable it would shut down all children’s products except cheap mass produced items made by huge corporations. Fortunately, the official in charge of the CPSC as much as told Congress that they would not enforce the law.</p>

<p>Congress then basically told all the worried manufacturers that yes, the law still applies, but “you should be safe breaking it since we probably can’t/won’t catch you.”</p>

<p>This is not government at its finest.</p>

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<p>^I don’t disagree with you that government control of market forces is inherently inefficient and thus can be “bad.” Anytime the CPSC recalls a product or increases safety standards, consumers pay the price. Whenever the goals of the CPSC don’t match the goals of the consumer, there will be inefficiency. This is a perfectly normal argument; it’s the foundation of why a socialist economy is ineffective. </p>

<p>I also agree that the most important attribute of the CPSC and the FDA is the information they provide consumers through warning labels, etc.</p>

<p>However, it’s worth noting that many products are inherently dangerous and not understood by the average consumer. The drug industry is heavily controlled. So are children’s toys (nowadays). But the alternative is to allow drugs that haven’t been thoroughly tested or lead-based toys onto the shelves. Not because producers are “bad,” but because they realize that the ultimate product liabilities of releasing these products will likely cost less than additional testing. That’s the reason we have these regulations; it’s believed that the safety of consumers is worth more than the courts currently value them–so if you allow the product liability costs to determine safety, then there aren’t enough safety measures taking place.</p>

<p>So, suppose you provide warning labels without mandating strict testing on products. You then force consumers to read every hazard and every label to make sure they aren’t buying the products that will kill them. It makes shopping extremely difficult, and there’s no doubt that it’ll lower the amount of consumer spending. Less consumer spending means a lower velocity of money. A lower velocity of money means less transactions and less economic activity. Less economic activity ultimately translates into less government revenue via taxes, and less overall wealth in society. </p>

<p>Even if you don’t care about human lives, the FDA and CPSC have economic benefits. Whether their product recalls and strict regulations ultimately pay for themselves via efficient transactions is unclear–but it’s certainly something to consider.</p>

<p>Don’t complain just because you’re bitter about not getting you’re full paycheck, taxes do a lot for you. Move to Switzerland. They have low income taxes.</p>

<p>I focused on product liability as an example, but this applies to any liability associated with boston1993’s new private court system. In a doctor malpractice suit, those that can’t afford to pay off the privatized court system can’t sue. There will be less malpractice suits, and malpractice premiums go down. This could potentially get passed along to healthcare patients and lower health insurance costs.</p>

<p>This sounds great, but think about why the prices are going down. They go down because doctors who are frequently negligent aren’t being held accountable by the courts. Thus, their malpractice insurance rates aren’t going up as quickly with time. They are able to stay in business longer, and thus the overall number of negligence cases go up. </p>

<p>In the long run, there will be no effect on insurance costs, because as the number of negligent doctors in business goes up (because they haven’t been forcefully ousted by malpractice litigation), the number of liability claims increase. Even though the percentage of negligent cases that go to court decreases, the overall number of negligent cases increases. It’s all offset.</p>

<p>The only long-run effect is that the number of negligent doctors in the community increases. Thus, our healthcare system worsens without any improvement in healthcare costs.</p>

<p>The real solution isn’t a privatized court system or a private police force. To be honest, this is pretty absurd.</p>

<p>A good alternative solution is fixing up the tort law system. We allow punitive damages in all kinds of liability suits. A random jury punishes a company above and beyond the economic and pain/suffering damages its products actually caused. This raises product costs. This same jury can punish a doctor, above and beyond pain/suffering, for the damages he causes a plaintiff. This raises healthcare costs.</p>

<p>These damages can reach absurd levels. </p>

<p>It’s nonsense. We should cap punitive damages ASAP (some states have started already). More importantly, punitive damages shouldn’t be going to plaintiffs who don’t deserve them. They should go to the federal government or private charities. Considering our current fiscal situation, I would argue that it should go to the government…But taxes are always disputable.</p>

<p>Does anyone else dream of being able to buy their own private military (PMC), or is it just me?</p>

<p>Guys, no one cares about your rabble raising. Philosophers and the the founding fathers had this debate millions of times. if they couldn’t solve the problem, I doubt a bunch of kids behind screens can. </p>

<p>With that said, i do believe current level of taxation is RIDICULOUS. Pshhh get your FICA tax out of here, i aint subsidizing the oldies. Why should I pay for a war i never supported? If you want to claim that the US has a relatively low tax for the rich, I will point to the current state of the EU and their toxic toxic toxic value added tax (everyone loses… by ALOT).</p>

<p>Who hates Texas here?</p>

<p>^^ Show some respect to your elders. They’re what made America the free place it is today. </p>

<p>The way we treat elderly people in this country disgusts me. The rest of the world laughs at us for the inhumane way we treat the people who gave their backs to let us have the lives we live today.</p>

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<p>I hate vituperative remarks by teenagers.</p>

<p>I hate the overuse of the word hate.</p>

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<p>It’s rabble rousing. And I don’t think it’s fair to say that nobody solved the problem - taxation is pretty ingrained in modern society and there’s pretty much a consensus on the fact that it should stay that way.</p>

<p>And it’s worth pointing out that the war in Iraq isn’t the reason taxes are as high as they are now. It’s not like there was a massive surplus and no national debt when it was started. And if the republicans get their way it won’t lead to increased taxes in the future - the government will just have to cut more useful services.</p>

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<p>We had a balanced budget a couple of years before the Bush tax cuts and Iraqi war.</p>

<p>Weren’t the Bush tax cuts before the war?</p>

<p>Anyway, the point is that for political reasons taxes and expenditures don’t run parallel. The government doesn’t demand extra taxes to pay off deficits, and you won’t get a refund just because there’s a surplus.</p>

<p>I agree with your general assertion:

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<p>But I don’t think it’s fair to say that government doesn’t demand taxes to pay off deficits. Deficits accumulate into national debt. The borrowings used to offset this debt pay interest. These interest expenses are paid using tax revenue. Thus more taxes are necessary to maintain government programs. </p>

<p>Ultimately, accumulated deficits force either government programs to get slashed or taxes to rise. The idea that a balanced budget is meaningless is misleading. You’re right: a one-time balanced budget might just be an accounting irregularity. But a consistently balanced budget keeps taxes down.</p>

<p>Many within the federal reserve (notably Greenspan) have publicly stated that they believe we could have accumulated budget surpluses between 2001-2007 if it weren’t for the Bush tax cuts and the Iraq War.</p>