i heard.....

Parent Cafe
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<p>NJres...I completely agree with everything you wrote. </p>

<p>I don't think the private college counselors are the ones who are well connected to the adcoms. There is a bit of that with counselors AT various prep schools and such. </p>

<p>But the "connections" of the sort that the OP was talking about are more the family ITSELF with the actual college, not the private college counselor. Some of these kids are development kids...family donates a building or huge some of money or is well connected to someone high up at the school. I'm not naive that that does not happen. Like you say, it doesn't ALWAYS work but it does sometime. </p>

<p>You gave the example of the kid you knew who didn't get into his ED Ivy school who was extremely wealthy. My D's friend flew in on private jet for a one on one meeting with the man whose family's name the school to which he was applying (within the university) was named for. Friend is very wealthy with famous father, and is also talented in his own right. My D and her buddies thought he was "in"....got rejected. This was ED, btw.</p>

<p>By the same token, a boy I know with VERY VERY low stats (I know folks here think something like an 1150 is low but let me say his stats in every area were WAY lower than what you guys call low)....and I thought his first choice school was a far reach.....I know his godfather was well connected to this college in some fashion....was either on a board there or something and they apparently had him call on the kid's behalf. I can't say that got him in but we know lots of kids with way higher qualifications who did not get in and this kid you would think could not get into this school which is fairly selective. </p>

<p>Someone else I know....and for all I know she is truly qualified in her own right to get in (though I do not know her qualifications)....but one observation is that she learned she got in ED a few days before anyone else found out to her Ivy school....I asked those close to her how she already knew of being accepted and I was told because her mom, who is a multi multi millionaire is in a "relationship" with someone on the board of this Ivy school and that person was able to inquire as to her admissions decision before the letters officially came out. This person (though hearsay) also said the family contributed to the school (no doubt....we are talking extreme wealth, well known). I'm not saying any of this got her in. I'm simply pointing out that I acknowledge that some families are well connected or are development cases. Sometimes this really helps but as you observed and I also gave one example in my post, it doesn't always work. </p>

<p>But I don't think the OP's claim that a private college counselor wheeled and dealed some kid into 20 schools who couldn't make it in on his own or that the advisor would risk such efforts at 20 different schools....rather than make the case strongly at ONE school. Also the OP's story about getting into Dartmouth early....come again? How did he get into 19 other schools if he did ED?? Doesn't jive.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>I think that admissions representatives are pretty independent minded about what they do these days, and very rarely influenced. From what I know, it is pretty unusual for that kind of influence peddling to be successful. In fact, it often backfires. Even a recommendation from a very well known person will usually not cut it unless it is obvious that the recommender knows the applicant well, and NOT just because they are a friend of the family. </p>

<p>As far as highly paid college consultants, I agree that their value is in packaging a candidate in the most effective way possible, a process that often begins years before apps are due. From what I have read, admissions reps will field calls from these individuals and it will rarely if ever help (most often it will hurt). Most of the consultants are too savvy these days to take such a direct approach.</p>

<p>Somewhat more valuable can be the call of a trusted GC at a reputable HS. Especially if the HS has a track record of sending great candidates in the past, an admissions rep may be willing to listen to a GCs description of a particularly great candidate - but after all, that's really the same thing as a GC rec, which really IS supposed to count.</p>

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<p>Roshke...I agree with everything you just wrote as well.</p>

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<p>Bball,
I fear you are still looking for that elusive edge, the turnkey to change what you see as your current predicament. How much better your life would be if you would instead focus on what you can do to make your current situation as rewarding as it can be.</p>

<p>As for your real/hypothetical case of the seemingly 'average incredibly well qualified kid with nothing special going for him but a really influential counselor'- well, who knows, maybe, why does it matter. Every school has a lower 25%ile group of kids from a statistical perspective- this kid was probably well above that. Every school has institutional perogatives and priorities and it is not always ours to know what they are, but presumably big money never hurts...</p>

<p>Maybe this kid spent time developing what was unique about him, and the counselor helped that to resonate...instead of worrying what everyone else was doing..Ever think of it that way? </p>

<p>The only answer that will satisfy you is...yes, the counselor and kid bought his way in. There. </p>

<p>Please look at your situation in a different frame of reference and start to celebrate your successes and opportunities....</p>

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<p>Roby, thanks for stepping in to discuss what I have been thinking too is the crux of this thread....is it to compare oneself to this or that opportunity that some other kid had and woe is me, not fair, not fair....if only I had or coulda done X or Y.....then that could be me. </p>

<p>You are so right to advise that this student needs to frame his point of reference and outlook differently in order to pursue his goals. I'll talk from personal experiences/examples and just maybe he'll see what we mean....</p>

<p>My kids went to a rural no name high school, not some exclusive prep school.....only a handful go to highly selective colleges each year at most....GC surely has no ongoing rapport with the adcoms....My kids never ever said...."if only we had gone to private school, then...." They made the most of where they were and sought challenging opportunities and exceled. One of my kids is pursuing the performing arts in college....sure, going to a performing arts high school would have been really cool....none exist in our state and we would never send our kids away for high school, nor could afford to anyway.....but she sought and we supported training and show experiences outside our school and outside our tiny town and within school as well....piecing it together. She still ended up at one of the most selective and well regarded college programs in her field and in fact, after only three years of HS. She didn't dwell on the fact that many who were also applying came out of well known performing arts high schools. What's the point? That wasn't where she went but she accrued similar skills but just another way. No need to compare. One of my kids is a ski racer. To be the tops in that sport, you'd pretty much have to attend a full time ski academy for high school. My kid not only did not opt to do that even with one of the most regarded ones right in our town, we never could have afforded to do so. She did plenty of training and racing in other ways. And she now is on the Div. 1 varsity team at her college and was never recruited (though many on the team are recruited and come out of ski academies) and she is doing real well anyway. No complaints or jealousy on her part. My kids are on financial aid. One of my kids over spring break thought long and hard about joining her teammates on a ski trip out west....no big deal to them...the majority of them are very well to do....but my kid, if she wanted to join them, has to pay for it herself from her own earnings.....does she complain and say "if only I could snap my fingers and do this like they can....blah blah..."....of course not. They never compared themselves to others but made the most of their own opportunities, often CREATED opportunities and sought to excel at whatever they did out of sheer interest and drive. Was the competition tough? As far as college admissions, sure! One ended up at an Ivy.....didn't care if it was an Ivy by the way but did want a challenging school that met various criteria she had....and of course it was hard to get in with so many other kids out there , some of whom had this or that privilege or opportunity....but so what...they stayed their own course and achieved it. Other kid got into a program that took 6% of applicants. Tough odds....since she got there, she found out that 1/3 of those in her program had attended the affiliated summer program....well, so? She didn't....it worked out by going on own road to her goals. </p>

<p>That's how Bball should be approaching his college transfer admissions. Set goals, do what you need to do to achieve them....be the best you can at what you do with all your efforts and then go with that....not caring so much about this or that kid and who had more of this or more of that or this "in" or this opportunity, or this amount of money and so forth. </p>

<p>My other observation is that I'm struck by how much time Bball has to post on an internet forum as a college student who has not only schoolwork, but should be engaged in worthwhile activities on campus, as well as social stuff, etc. I don't know where you go but have read some schools you hope to go to next. Let me say this....one of your schools is Brown, yes? I have a kid at Brown. NO WAY would she have the time (truthfully nor the inclination but that is not the point) to post here like you do. Today she had to be in a van for her sport at 6 AM. She'll be away on the weekend with her team. She has classes and much work to do for them, and of course social stuff here and there. My other kid....had classes from 9-6 today and rehearsal until midnight....that is her schedule most every day and her weekends are also fully scheduled. She barely has time to check email, but certainly could not have time to do all this posting. My feeling is that if you wish to be an attractive candidate at a selective school....you need to put full effort into schoolwork but also be involved in other pursuits (and have fun too of course)....but this should not yield lots of time to be posting. Assume all you want about how this or that kid got in due to connections or money or whatever....but the majority got in through hard work and developing some interesting achievements....ya know, THAT really does work!</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>I don't mean to suggest that this happened in this particular case, or any that I know of; however, it occured to me, that sooner or later we are going to hear about an admissions officer being "bought." </p>

<p>I don't mean a development contribution to the college: I mean an outright bribe from the applicant to the person who has the ability to put the application in the approved pile. A dishonest "counselor" could be the bag carrier and could receive a kick-back as well.</p>

<p>Considering the stakes, the pressure and the frequency of corrupt practices in other fields, I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened yet.</p>

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<p>Who knows, maybe it has. I have no idea but like you say, it happens in other fields....</p>

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<p>HE got a Dartmouth early notificaiton like 5 other kids in my school, dartmouth sends out these likely letters about a month or 2 before, and he was one of those</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I mean an outright bribe from the applicant to the person who has the ability to put the application in the approved pile.

[/quote]
Don't most schools have selection <em>COMMITTEES</em> which have to agree on outcomes for applicants? One admissions officer may make an initial cut on applications, but aren't they usually reviewed/sanity-checked by committee before final action?</p>

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<p>bball87- you are a very lucky guy. You must have gone to some "powerhouse" HS to get 5 kids ED (with early notification) in Dartmouth. I'm on Long Island- I don't think even districts like Roslyn and Great Neck get that type of positive response from the Ivys. You will be much happier in life if you learn to appreciate what you have (being at Cornell ain't too shabby). You really should stop looking at what others have and thinking that you are missing out on something. That attitude is a sure way of always being disappointed in life.</p>

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<p>mootmom - Yes, they do. And probably one of the reasons why! I know of a story where the parents had some strong connections to the dean of admissions. Dean supposedly put in a word for the kid, who was a worthwhile applicant in every way, but was still overruled by a very independent minded committee.</p>

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<p>"My other observation is that I'm struck by how much time Bball has to post on an internet forum as a college student who has not only schoolwork, but should be engaged in worthwhile activities on campus, as well as social stuff, etc"</p>

<p>Gee, sooviet.... now I feel bad. Maybe I should go do work... Don't want to let Cangel (my mom) find out that I've been reading these threads.</p>

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<p>Kiddo - go join a club, or throw a snowball, or read a book or go to a concert, or better yet - go down to that jewelry studio and make your old mother some earrings :).</p>

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<p>Darn it! Oh well, I'm going to a hockey game in two hours. That's social.</p>