<p>“Precisely. I mean, the sole function of the the class officer (at least in my school) IS to plan prom. This involves everything you do to finance it and promote it (ie fundraisers, organizing post prom, etc). Prom is enough work by itself that other stuff would be distracting, and in my case, would lead to us getting yelled at by our advisers.”</p>
<p>There’s nothing wrong with planning prom. If that’s all that a class officer has done, however, that won’t make them stand out in Ivy admissions. Ivies are swamped with applications from SGA officers who planned prom. Ivies are impressed by class officers who did much more than that.</p>
<p>The same goes for other things. Ivies are swamped with applicants who are NHS members and officers. Simply meeting the NHS requirements isn’t going to make one stand out in Ivy admissions.</p>
<p>The people whom Ivies want are those who do what’s expected and then do much more – out of their own interest and passions. That’s the kind of leadership that’s sought by Ivies and that their alum tend to do long after college – whether or not they get recognition or encouragement for doing this. Doing things like this is their idea of fun.</p>
<p>For instance, Harvard reunions are planned by classmembers. Mine typically includes: panel discussions with class members speaking on various topics ranging from academic research to topics relating to personal life; a talent show that includes class members – amateur and professional – showing off their talents; an elaborate survey of class members that is created and statistically analyzed by classmates who are social scientists. And, yes, there are parties and picnics and the option to attend a sports game. One of my classmates even made video about our class that included in-depth interviews with several classmates. The background music was provided by a children’s orchestra that a classmate – a physician who was a child prodigy musician-- founded and directs.</p>
<p>Doing all of these things takes a great deal of work, and alumni do this for fun, not because they are trying to get something to add to their resumes. What Harvard alum think is having a fun time at their reunion is what many people would regard as doing a lot of hard work at their reunions, and therein lies the difference between the type of people who go to places like Ivies and some (not all) of the type of people who don’t go to such schools.</p>
I read through the RD admissions results thread for Yale with some care, and I have some observations that I think at least suggest some answers to these questions. Some of these points are similar to what others (especially Northstarmom) have said above, but looking at actual results confirms some of them for me:
There are, in fact, very few students who get into all the Ivies. There are, rather, many students who get into one or two of them, and are rejected or waitlisted by others. And it’s hard to identify a clear pattern, even if you want to talk about “higher” and “lesser” Ivies.
Students who truly do get into multiple top schools (HYPS) generally have clearly identifiable characteristics that explain this, such as super-high stats AND URM status, or super-high stats and winning numerous national science/math awards.
While CC may skew for this, there are many, many students with similar resumes–and these are typically science/math kids who play violin/piano. Observation suggest that a lot of these students are Asians. Those who fit this profile and have high stats get accepted to very good schools, but not all of them. If they are shut out, it’s probably because they didn’t apply to enough schools, or just had really hard luck.
Applying to more schools is probably a good strategy for students who want highly selective schools, but who don’t have some overwhelming hook (assuming you can do justice to all the apps). I think Stupefy had surprisingly disappointing results, but what if she hadn’t applied to Williams? From my point of view, her plan succeeded, because she gained admission to one of the most selective schools in the nation.
Achievement in ECs or competitions outside the school appears to be very important for the most selective schools. Every high school has an SGA president, a literary magazine editor, and even a valedictorian.
Legacy matters. So if you’re a legacy, apply to that school.</p>
Thanks. I am very grateful that my dad recommended I apply to a LAC for variety. Not until after this whole process did I realize i really would fit well there :)</p>
<p>Once you get there, you will sneer at all those other places.</p>
<p>Seriously–and this is for the benefit of others–you should think in terms of a plan or strategy, rather than in terms of a dream school. That way, unless there is a total disaster, you can feel that your strategy worked.</p>
<p>Very wise words; I fully agree. The way I put it often at home is that the main thing is to prepare well for a challenging course of college studies. It’s possible that a particular admission committee will miss the opportunity to admit one or another student, but the student who is well prepared will thrive at whatever college that student finally enrolls in.</p>
<p>I think that the idea that you have to jump through hoops to get into the Ivies is not always well substantiated. My child got into Harvard, Princeton and Columbia this year. He is an excellent student with high test scores and NORMAL ECs. He is a dedicated, but not award winning musician, and has done well in Science Olympiad at the state and once at the national level. Nothing earth shattering. I think that children need time to be children and the emphasis in this forum on ECs like paper publishing, Carnegie hall performances etc. is misleading. A lot of his friends were accepted to multiple Ivies and were similar to him as far as academics and ECs go. I think that we need to step back and give these teens the room to breathe and relax. I have a younger child and I will follow the same philosophy with her that I did with my son. At least she will have a childhood----far more important than getting into HYPSM.</p>
<p>What I mean to say is, don’t be intimidated by some of the amazing stats you see on this forum. Take heart, studying hard and showing dedication without doing earth shattering deeds can be sufficient to get you into a good school. My son is a prime example.</p>
<p>I don’t want to play the villain here as I’m all for studying hard and showing dedication but those alone might not be enough. </p>
<p>Or, it wouldn’t distinguish you as one among 30k. One would have to do other things. Of course, achievements are not divided into those that are earth-shattering and those that are not.</p>
<p>No, We are asian, upper middle class, both parents have graduate degrees and no legacy. He did take courses at the local Ivy, perhaps that made him stand out.</p>
<p>Jersey13, North East—hardly geographically diverse, LOL. Again, he is a very good student, but did not do anything extraordinary. I remember that he read some of the posts, especially in the thread “What ECs are good enough”, and came away convinced that he hadn’t a bat’s chance in hell of getting into any of the Ivies. If it was just him, I might consider this a fluke of some sort. But a number of his friends got in too.</p>
<p>No, that’s not what I said. This is a subtle matter, and not one where it’s a matter of failing something or doing something better. People who get in meet some of what the university is looking for very well. Not everyone can be compared with everyone else. </p>
<p>The essays can be good, the stats can be good, and the ECs can be good. The question is if these match something the university feels necessary to add to its class. And the question is if some admissions officer FEELS the student should be added. It is an art as much as it is a science. The essays are where an argument as to what the student’s credentials are may be brought to the table. If you read that article that gets thrown around about how UChicago let people in on their admissions practices, the process involved AO’s explicitly arguing for candidates based on what sense they got of them. This included gleaning things about what sorts of people they were, and how this would affect how their talents and achievements would actually contribute to the school atmosphere.</p>
<p>These schools are selective. That doesn’t mean they are for the best, that means they are there to select those whom they want, and this may vary, be hard to describe, whatever else.</p>
<p>I don’t claim to agree with all they do, but I’m sure this is the deal.</p>
<p>And yet I think I’d be a great fit for Harvard…I feel like I am everything you have been describing in your posts. I am extremely dedicated to music, having attended an art magnet school for four years (staying at school until 5PM every day for conservatory classes), and am very active in my school community. It seems like I have everything you say an Ivy would want, and yet none of them wanted me. I don’t really know what my point is, but I guess I just want to make clear that luck is probably a bigger part of Ivy admissions than anything else, which I’m sure you understand, but I feel like your posts have been implying “If you are dedicated, enjoy school, and go above and beyond, Ivies are for you!” and yet that’s not all it takes.</p>
<p>Once again, I want to emphasize the fact that I’m not sure what my point is, but I’ve already typed this out so I’m replying anyways! Hehehe.</p>
<p>I am pretty sure both Northstarmom and I posted what we feel is the schools’ vision. Whether they are employing extremely valid and sound means of pursuing this vision is up for grabs. I think there are things lacking and foolish about the whole process, and have posted this on many schools’ threads. The top schools get great students, but they’d have to be * utter fools* not to since the best students throw their applications at them. Whether they are using sound criteria correlating better than misguided goals with a good admissions standard is another story. </p>
<p>If you’re headed to UChicago, consider yourself lucky that you escaped this whole bloodbath heading to a school with godly academics. That school is amazing.</p>
<p>I think your implicit point is that you don’t like how arbitrary things turn out. I have long been against that too. One of the reasons for the arbitrary nature is that factors other than the big and bold academic credentials and other tangible achievements are considered. I have heard people say schools try to get to know you through your application. What I don’t see is the means for this to happen – the scope of the applications is quite limited. Whence, the ultimate decisions are just the best approximation of something that needn’t be very feasible to measure on paper.</p>
No, but they are on a continuum that goes from extraordinary to non-existent, passing through “very good,” “typical,” “nondescript,” and “minimal” on the way. People can debate endlessly on where a particular EC belongs on this continuum–and adcoms may have varying views about that as well.</p>
<p>“I don’t really know what my point is, but I guess I just want to make clear that luck is probably a bigger part of Ivy admissions than anything else, which I’m sure you understand, but I feel like your posts have been implying “If you are dedicated, enjoy school, and go above and beyond, Ivies are for you!” and yet that’s not all it takes.”</p>
<p>Ivies may be for you, but there still aren’t enough spaces in Ivies for the students who’d fit well there.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, U of Chicago is a TERRIFIC school. I think it’s particularly wonderful for students who are more intellectual than are the typical Ivy student. Ivies have some intellectuals, of course, but the bulk of their students aren’t. I readily admit that I’m not.</p>
<p>However, one of my young mentees is a freshman at U Chicago, a school that I suggested that he apply to because I thought he’d be very happy there, and had good chances of getting in. He also did ECs out of real interest and with depth. They included his being a state record holder in a sport and doing some major community service work that was above and beyond what most young people do, and was also done out of interest. </p>
<p>He, too, was rejected by Ivies, but is very happy and fulfilled at U Chicago – including being on a sports team and participating in another EC. Chicago is a place where I readily admit I would have been miserable because it requires a far stronger commitment to hard intellectual work than I would ever have been willing to do. The grading standards also are harder than Harvard’s. </p>
<p>So rejoice in your good fortune, and look forward with pride to being at U of Chicago.</p>