I really need some advice

Colleges and Universities A-Z Air Force Academy - Colorado Springs
1

<p>First of all, congratulations to those of you who turned in signed papers (or are going to in the next couple days) at Orientation! The class of 2009 is going to be great because of you. I’m so happy there are so many of us on this board who have the oppertunities to accept our appointments.</p>

<p>That being said, I need a little help. I’m really not quite sure what to do with myself, and decisions are due May 1.</p>

<p>It’s basically come down to USAFA or Yale. Having been at both places, USAFA twice, I can say that I feel more at home at USAFA, and I think I always have. Having been deferred from Yale EA was in fact really what made me think so hard about USAFA in the first place. When I got into Yale though, my parents seemed to think the choice would be a no-brainer. They assumed I’d sign my Yale card the next day. My dad is a Yale graduate, and that makes things hard. I know he wants me to go there because he did, and he feels that it will offer me more oppertunities than USAFA will.</p>

<p>I certainly see his argument, and I often agree with him. I will have so much more freedom at Yale to pursue the interests that I want. I will not be bound by heirarchial restraints, a core, physical requirements, or really anything for that matter. I’ll be able to spend my summers traveling where I want, doing the internships I want, studying exactly what I want. I also realize that “on paper,” Yale is probably the better choice academically. It does carry a certain weight with its name, and in a way, passing up the oppertunity to go to Yale is just as bad as passing up the one to go to USAFA.</p>

<p>At the same time, I feel that my heart and gut are both telling me USAFA. I can’t see myself anywhere else or doing anything but Basic over the summer. The ideals of the Academy just seem so much more me than those at any other place, and I love the security and safety USAFA can and will offer me.</p>

<p>Rational thought is telling me to accept Yale, but passion and heart are telling me USAFA. I just don’t know which one to listen to. Dedication really isn’t an issue because I know if I accept USAFA, I will be driven to succeed no matter what. I just don’t know what sorts of other criteria I should be basing my choice off, or how to even make a choice. If anybody could offer me any advice about any of this, I would be very much appreciative. Thank you so much for all your time and suggestions, and congratulations again to anybody who has already accepted.</p>

2

<p>I wouldn't presume to give you advice. But I've got a link for you - related to your situation. It was written by someone very familiar with USMA and Harvard, comparing the environments, the students, and the output. Quite thought-provoking.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.harvardmag.com/issues/mj96/soldiers.2.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.harvardmag.com/issues/mj96/soldiers.2.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

3

<p>Nor would I presume to sway you one way or the other, but it does sound like you want USAFA moreso than Yale (I must disagree with the point that Yale would give you more oppertunities than USAFA, however). Ultimately, you must make your own decision. The decision you make will affect the rest of your life, not your father's. Think about what you want to do, what environment would best fit you as a person. Picture where you will be in 10 or 20 years with a Yale education as opposed to a USAFA education and figure out which future looks more appealing. Only you can determine the course of your own life. As long as you make your own decision, you won't go wrong. Good luck.</p>

4

<p>Vampilinred</p>

<p>You haven't really said anywhere in your post that you want to be an air force officer. If you do I would guess that would be your deciding factor in favor of the academy.</p>

<p>"I can't see myself anywhere else or doing anything but Basic over the summer."</p>

<p>More importantly, where do you see yourself in four years?!!</p>

<p>It's not just about "the education", it's about career path. People who go to the Air Force Academy I would hope have a fervent desire to serve in the Air Force. If being commissioned in the air force is not your primary desire, head for Yale. It's a great school!!</p>

5

<p>KateLewis: Thank you for that article. It's sort of ironic, really. That article touched upon a lot of conflicts I'm finding/thinking about myself. I bookmarked it, and I'll probably read it a few more times in the next few days. Thank you for that, it's a great little piece of insight.</p>

<p>mixalot: Thank you for the words of wisdom. I think what I like so much about USAFA is that I really could see myself 10 years from now. I know what I would be doing. I have no idea what I'd be doing 10 years after Yale. I don't even have an idea what I'd be doing a year after. Yale offers so many things, it seems near impossible to know what direction going there brings you.</p>

<p>shogun: I assumed my desire to serve was/is implied by my heavy consideration of the Academy? But at the same time, I know what you mean. As of now, I don't think I'd want to become a career officer, and maybe that's truly indicative of where I should go. Obviously I am very naive to many things about the AF and serving, but I suppose I figure that any work I do for the AF will be beneficial to them; going career isn't the only way I can do my part, is it? If so, I think you're probably right. I think Yale is probably the place for me, then.</p>

6

<p>28 years ago I decided to go to USAFA for mostly what are considered the wrong reasons by many--free education, prestige, etc. At the time, I didn't think too much about serving, much less making it a career. I wasn't even sure I'd spend all 4 years there. What did appeal to me about USAFA was that I WOULD NOT be just another college student. I liked the idea of doing many different things, taking lots of different subjects, and getting opportunities to do things college students rarely experience (e.g., fly gliders, travel, do survival training, etc). Plus, I looked at the opportunities USAFA and the AF offered--the amount of doors it would open--and I liked my prospects.</p>

<p>Why did I stay (now approaching 28 years)? Because the opportunities just kept coming... Also, I really made some amazing friends that are now scattered all over the world. There's something special about experiencing something very tough with a group. The bonds you form are stronger than anything I can describe.</p>

<p>You can be a college student at Yale--and you'll probably be a very good one. You'll take classes and then in a few years interview for jobs and set out on an uncertain path. You can go to USAFA, be challenged in ways you never imagined, have experiences that would frighten most other college students, make amazing friends, and have a chance at age 22 to manage, fly, maintain, operate, or develop billion dollar systems in order to defend your country. You'll be an officer in a 375K strong organization and immediately outrank 70% of them.</p>

<p>Add to that, my parents didn't pay a penny for my college. I owed them nothing financially and have been financially independent since 27 June 1977. That counts for a LOT in my book.</p>

<p>Looking back, it was a tough call for me to stay a few times in my freshman year, but I wouldn't have done anything different...</p>

7

<p>Vamp,
If I remember correctly, you were one of the few who applied to USAFA but didn’t bother applying for an ROTC scholarship, or in fact want anything to do with AFROTC. Also, in your original post you say nothing about wanting to be an Air Force officer. If I sat on the admissions board, I would seriously question your motives.</p>

8

<p>I wouldn't--for many of the same reasons I mentioned in my story. I didn't consider ROTC either, and I know a lot of cadets and grads who didn't either. for them it was, "I either go to USAFA or I don't bother." If "v" decides to go to USAFA, then what I do suggest is that you make an etched in stone commitment to stay for a least one full year--through the summer after your freshman year. Don't go into BCT or even your first semester thinking that Yale's an option if you drop out. If you do--you'll drop out. It's the easy way to go.</p>

<p>People can talk all they want about commitment to the military and service, but I for one don't think that it's reasonable to think that many 17- and 18-year-olds know what life in the military and at a service academy is REALLY like. I didn't. Heck, my SON didn't. Unless you're absolutely sure that you want to spend your life as a military officer, then, the best you can do is to give it a fair and honorable shot. To me, that's one FULL year plus the next summer. If you can't see the opportunities available to you by then, formed bonds that will keep you there, and decided that the AF just may be a good enough quality of life that you're willing to commit for the next 8-10 years, then USAFA and the AF haven't done their job.</p>

<p>I know my views on this may not seem all that mainstream, but I've seen too many gung-ho kids show up at USAFA committed to 30 year careers that quit in a few weeks or months, and likewise seen some pretty cynical, low-key folks turn into truly superior cadets and officers to think that predicting success or expecting a life-long commitment out of a 17-year-old is realistic or prudent.</p>

9

<p>Vampielinred: </p>

<p>Fly with the Falcons buddy! It's not the Army, but it's ok. You will be bored to death at Yale.</p>

<p>I will join the USMA class of 09 in about 2 months. Some of my friends, especially the girls, think I am nuts but they don't understand how it feels to be part of a great group of guys. Some of my best days have been during team practices killing myself and complaining about it with my wrestling and cross country buddies. </p>

<p>Some of the colleges I visited were cool. But the students there were mostly focused on themselves. When I visited WP all the plebes were part of the same struggling team - sharing a miserable first year. It was great!</p>

<p>The educational opportunity at the academies is great but that was not my top priority. It's the environment. Tons of physical stuff to do. Not just classrooms and parties.</p>

<p>I know that the academies train you to become a leader and I hope to do that. But right now I am focused on surviving the first year.</p>

<p>You talk about long term plans, my long term plan is to make it through the first year. LOL</p>

<p>Fly with the Falcons. Don't waste you life on Yale (just kidding).</p>

10

<p>Go4it:</p>

<p>This is way off topic, but where are you from? I'm gonna be with USMA c/o 2009 as well. I'm from Delaware. I get alot of the exact same thing from my friends.</p>

<p>Vampielinred:
These people are all giving you good advice. I hope it makes your decision a little bit easier.</p>

11

<p>GO WITH YOUR PASSION.</p>

<p>I went to Dartmouth undergrad and to Yale for business school. Don't get caught up in the name of "Yale" or status. USAFA has plenty of status and your education will be just as good as Yale. If you leave the military after your commitment is up, your resume will be as welcome as one with a Yale degree - probably more. You will have served your country and you'll be given responsibilities that no company would give you at such a young age. Believe me - when you're 25 or 30, no one will care where you went to college.</p>

<p>You've obviously spent time in New Haven - do you really want to spend four years in New Haven with a group of kids who, for the largest part, wouldn't lift a finger to defend our country. Really, al-Qaeda could be storming the walls of one of the Yale Colleges and most of them would be debating whether or not Bin Laden was really a threat or was it really all our fault that they don't "like" us.</p>

<p>And don't get caught up in the idea that you'll have so much choice (summers, internships, etc) at Yale. You'll have plenty of choices at USAFA. Real freedom is not about having choice - but making decisions. You can go to the supermarket and pick from one of 200 breakfast cereals - would your freedom be any less if you could only pick from 50?</p>

<p>Tell your father to get over it - this is your life and your education and your PASSION. </p>

<p>Last, and I don't want to scare you into choosing USAFA, but just think about this - John Kerry went to Yale and Hillary Clinton to Yale Law School. Yeah, I know, George Bush did too but it's probably the only school he could get into because he was a legacy.</p>

<p>My son, btw, is on the waiting list at West Point and has a four-year Army ROTC scholarship at UCLA which he's accepted. He steered away from the Ivy League. Choices are his.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

12

<p>Docfrance: Both posts of yours were amazing, especially your first. You have no idea how much I appreciate your insight. You've been such a help to me (and so many on this board) these past few months, always answering our questions about the process, and I'm so happy you took the time to answer mine here. I definately would try to make it through the first year. I don't think I really could leave before that. But I really think what you mention is a good plan, and it's one I'm definately going to share with my father.</p>

<p>usnamom- What you say is true, and as I think about it now, I'm wondering if that was a bad choice. But at the same time, I'm not sure doing ROTC at a state college while at Yale would really develop me into the type of officer I'd want to be. I know the Academy is pretty much the best place to go if you want to be an officer in any way, shape, or form. It's so hard to know. Maybe not applying for an ROTC scholarship was a bad choice, but I just want(ed) to be able to put everything into becoming an AF officer, and I didn't feel personally that ROTC would allow me to do that. Also, like I said to shogun, I assumed my desire to serve was implied, but perhaps it wasn't.</p>

<p>Go4it: You're exactly the sort of person that makes me want USAFA so much. Just from your post, I can tell you have a lot of passion and dedication for USNA and the Army. I too just want to survive the first year and accept the challenge that has been given to me. I also want to be surrounded by people like you who love the challenge as much as I do. :)</p>

<p>mixalot: Oh, it is. I think I'm going to print this thread out and show it to my parents. I think they really need to see a lot of this.</p>

<p>BigGreen: I think it's really interesting that even coming from an Ivy you say I should go to USAFA. Few Ivy-affiliated people have told me this. I love what you said about Al-Qaeda, and that's another reason I think I am gravitating towards USAFA. I'd be around a lot of like-minded people there (for the first time in my life really, I come from a "blue" area, so to speak), and I just think it would be really amazing to live with people who love the USA as much as I do. Your point about the Clinton's is also very apt. Congratulations to your son, too. He's going to go very far with a parent who gives him such awesome support. Thank you so much for replying.</p>

13

<p>V: Thanks for your comments. By the way, we also live in a Blue State and I can't wait for my sophomore to graduate from HS so we can move. Some of my idiot neighbors here in New Jersey are fighting to make sure that military recruiters can't even TALK to seniors, as if they don't have minds of their own. My gay neighbors down the street (nothing wrong with that) fly a Rainbow Flag but not an American Flag - wonder how long they'd last under an Islamic Republic.</p>

<p>Maybe this will help put you over the line. (By the way, your father graduated from Yale when it still matriculated students who understood that the USA was special - maybe he should go spend a week or two back there during the school year and not during Reunions). Ignore the Harvard Mag piece - junk. Here's a piece written LAST WEEK by a professor at YALE whose son is joining the Marine Corps. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-gelernter15apr15,0,7665779.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-gelernter15apr15,0,7665779.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>By the way, the author, David Gelernter, was one of the people blown up by the Unambomber - he knows about adversity and extremism.</p>

14

<p>The armed forces of the United States are best left apolitical. As a Republican I see my party as being hi-jacked by conservative social activists who want to claim the US military as their constituancy. I see this as a fundamentally dangerous concept that is not consistent with the design of our republic. General Eisenhower understood this very well. The efforts by extremists on both ends of the political spectrum to polarize this nation into blue or red states, conservatives or liberals are designed to undermine the will of any remaining free thinkers who may be as likely to vote the party line or not, depending on their conscience.</p>

15

<p>Liz, you pretty much know why I want you to come to USAFA, and I understand your plight.</p>

<p>All I'm really going to say is that if you want to, you can put your foot down and be absolutely adamant with your parents if you want. It is YOUR choice, and you shouldn't need their approval to do what you want with your life. I say forget about your parents and choose whichever you feel you can see yourself in a few months, years, etc.</p>

<p>Then, you'll have to sit down with them and explain why you chose what you did. While I had the luxury of my parents letting me choose whatever I wanted (that was financially conceivable), I still believe that they're your parents and if you're as adamant about it as you can possibly be, there's nothing they can do about where their 18-year-old daughter is going to college.</p>

16

<p>Another thing... As soon as your parents come to USAFA for Parents' Weekend over Labor Day this year, they'll wonder why in the world they ever thought that Yale would be better for you. I GUARANTEE this. Parents are often skeptical until they see their cadet in the shadow of the Rockies in uniform, under the flag pole, marching in the PW parade, calling people "sir" and "ma'am," etc. And when they sit in on your classes and see the quality of instruction, small classes, and obvious talent of the faculty, that will seal the deal...</p>

17

<p>I've been a lurker on CC, but have to weigh in on this one. I am a USAFA 80 grad. I know, I must seem like a dianosaur to you, but I can remember very clearly being in your identical shoes in the spring of 1976. I was deciding between UCLA or USAFA. I went USAFA and to this day think it is one of the single best decisions I have ever made in my entire life. At 17 you can't say for sure if you want to make the AF a career of even if you really want to become an officer. I couldn't. It was a difficult 1st year, but the experience was wonderful. They simply don't train you or put you through any process at any Ivy school like they do at any of the military academies. Not only will you get a fantastic personalized academic education, but you will come out a confident supremely developed young person who will have the skills to do just about anything you want to do in life. Yale is a wonderful school and you will do well if you go there. You will also do well and would never regret going and graduating from the USAFA.</p>

18

<p>Vampie,</p>

<p>We have read many insightful comments here. You initiated a good discussion on an important topic. I can only add that I recall the enthusiasm about the AFA in your posts since I discovered this site. Your posts always make me smile because of your high level of excitement. </p>

<p>My daughter will attend WP this summer and has a friend in her high school who will attend the AFA. Both girls are as committed as you seem to be and both have numerous outstanding college opportunities. It is the same for many of the other appointees. I think you have received much good advice here, but I suggest you use both your head and heart in making your decision. I wish you all the best.</p>

19

<p>vamp----
Sweetie, after reading the tone of your posts, my instincts tell me....
USAFA. "Cross into the blue............."
The truth is---you are a very articulate and bright young man/lady?---You will be successful no matter what the choice. You seem to have excellent people skills and leadership potential, two things very valuable at a service academy. Very best of luck to you......</p>

20

<p>After a lot of soul searching, a couple talks with my parents, and probably a few jars full of tears (add to that the ones from as I type this), I am here to say that I have just declined my appointment to USAFA, and I will be attending Yale. I'm not sure how much of the choice was my own, but when it boils down to it, despite my current love for the AF and idealism about USAFA, I just can't say whether or not I can commit for five years after. My parents told me, and even I realized after some serious thinking, that it's best to keep my options open as much I can. I can still serve the AF in other ways, and if my desire to serve is still strong after a year, I will apply to AFROTC at (I believe) University of Connecticuit or do OTS once I graduate. Even though a part of my heart is breaking right now, I realize it's all going to be okay.</p>

<p>I want to thank you all, first for answering all of my questions. You all were truly part of what made me love USAFA in the first place because I was better able to understand what life would be like as a cadet. I also want to thank all the grads and current cadets on this board for making the sacrifices that I suppose I was not strong enough to make, for serving your country, for not caring at all what anybody thinks about you, for loving the USA and the ideals that this country stands for. Thank you, so much, for all of that and more.</p>

<p>Congratulations to all the members of the Class of 2009. My thoughts and prayers will be with each and every one of you, and I will probably be thinking about you in BCT most days of my summer. I am only sorry I cannot be there to share the experience with you. NEVER give up and never forget how much you love the AF and what a great place USAFA is when all is said and done. Remember how great it feels to have the chance to serve your counrty. Remember during the darkest days of Beast those bars that will be pinned on your shoulders in August and ultimately those leiutenant bars that will be pinned on your shoulders on June 1, 2009. Remember how lucky you are to have had the chance to get them.</p>

<p>That all being said, I'm probably going to migrate to the Yale board, so I want to let you all know that I wish you all the best of luck and only hope your time at USAFA is rewarding. You're all going to survive BCT and make fine 2LTs one day.</p>

<p>Once again, thank you everybody for being so nice to me and making the past year so wonderful for me, at least USAFA-wise. Congratulations, thank you, and God speed.</p>