<p>Do you think I made the right decision?</p>
<p>If you're in-state, then it's a pretty good one. Even if you're out-of-state, it's not bad. You'll be competing against a lower-quality peer group at Berkeley but still have access to a world-class faculty. So you'll make good grades more easily and have the ability to network with the best.</p>
<p>"If you're in-state, then it's a pretty good one. Even if you're out-of-state, it's not bad. You'll be competing against a lower-quality peer group at Berkeley but still have access to a world-class faculty. So you'll make good grades more easily and have the ability to network with the best."</p>
<p>Yes except you forget at Berkeley classes are curved around a C while at Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford they're curved around a B</p>
<p>Bad idea.</p>
<p>HPS offers more student support (advising, etc.), more flexibility (change of major), more grade inflation (easier to get those A's), and generally more prestige. Thus, it's easier to get a high-paying job or attend a top grad/prof. school in your field if you attend one of HPS.</p>
<p>Unless money's an issue, I cannot see why anyone would turn down those schools for one of Cal's undergrad. programs.</p>
<p>It's not completely unheard of to do such things. I turned down all of the Ivys + Stanford for Berkeley East Asian studies. And I know this guy from Japan who did the same thing as regards physics.</p>
<p>
[quote]
HPS offers more student support (advising, etc.),
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is not completely true. Harvard's bureacracy, like Berkeley's is known to be "hostile" to undergraduates. And their advicing is NOT better than Berkeley's-it's equal. Advicing at P and S is superior to Berkeley's, though. </p>
<p>
[quote]
more flexibility (change of major),
[/quote]
</p>
<p>True, but overblown. The OP won't find any bureaucratic roadblocks to majoring in physics and most other majors within L and S. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Unless money's an issue, I cannot see why anyone would turn down those schools for one of Cal's undergrad. programs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>For the same reason that Harvard undergraduates disproportionally choose Berkeley as their choice for grad school. (In spite of the fact that Harvard offers more money.) As a whole, Berkeley's faculty is BETTER and SMARTER than Harvard's faculty. (Even more so in specialized subjects.) A well informed incoming undergraduate would know this and would choose on more intelligent factors other than prestige, weather, etc.</p>
<p>My decision was based mainly on the following reasons:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Berkeley's Physics programme is world-class and better than Harvard/Princeton/Stanford's.</p></li>
<li><p>Berkeley has a global reputation. Only Harvard is more prestigious. </p></li>
<li><p>I come from Asia (I'm Japanese but earned my IB from International School Manila) where Berkeley is considered more prestigious than Princeton and Stanford. </p></li>
<li><p>I am NOT particularly affected by the tuition rates of the 4 schools since I am an international student, thus tuition charges for me and my case go about the same rates. I do not need scholarship. </p></li>
<li><p>the sunny California is better than the East Coast. :)</p></li>
</ol>
<hr>
<p>QUESTIONS: Why do some people here think that Berkeley has an excellent programme for grad studies but such is not the case for undergrad studies? Do you have have a different set of faculty for undergrad and grad programmes? Will you be housed in a different school facility? The school is not taking you seriously? This is confusing and somewhat a weird scenario......</p>
<p>can you like give me your acceptance to harvard... lol</p>
<p>People make the distinction between undergrad and graduate work at Berkeley because the undergrad student body is so huge, especially compared to Princeton and Stanford. </p>
<p>It's the same faculty, but as an undergrad you will have to compete with grad students for faculty attention and research opportunities. You will have to be more aggressive about getting information and finding your opportunities at Berkeley than at places like Stanford and Princeton, but the opportunities are there. </p>
<p>Physics is a relatively small undergraduate major at most universities, and so, once you are past the introductory classes, you will probably not face the huge class sizes you would in a field like economics, for example. And, the top physics majors from Berkeley do go on to the top grad school programs. </p>
<p>One suggestion I'd make is that you join an undergraduate physics club where you can meet upper division students who might have some advice. A report done on the Berkeley physics department a couple of years ago found that, though its reputation had slipped in some areas of physics, the undergraduate physics majors were happy to be at Berkeley and were an impressive bunch.</p>
<p>^ Thanks so much sac. Your post does really help a lot. Now I'm beginning to understand what people mean when they talk about the difference between undergrad and grad programmes. </p>
<p>I'll take your advice in joining a club related to my major. See yah on campus soon! :)</p>
<p>Berkeley's prestige holds above all other schools only in Asia, not the U.S. I believe this is in part because the undergrad program has 40-50% Asians, which is unheard of in the elite private schools. But here in America, most are aware of the gap in quality.</p>
<p>Yes, you will have to compete for those limited research positions. So, GPA is the main determining factor. Apply for any job on campus and you see a minimum GPA requirement put into place to weed out potential applicants. Also, while it's true that Berkeley has the "world-class" faculty, a lot of them simply don't teach at the undergrad. level so you won't be able to take advantage of them.</p>
<p>"Also, while it's true that Berkeley has the "world-class" faculty, a lot of them simply don't teach at the undergrad. level so you won't be able to take advantage of them."</p>
<p>You say this as if it wasn't also the case at Stanford and Harvard. I'm fine with your criticisms of research schools, but please don't act like Berkeley is the ONLY research school where UGs have to compete for professor attention or famous professors don't always teach UG. These are issues at ALL research schools and if you don't like it then you should consider an LAC.</p>
<p>Berkeley has a particle accelerator from what I've heard</p>
<p>Do HPS have one? I don't think so (but I could be wrong).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Berkeley's prestige holds above all other schools only in Asia, not the U.S. I believe this is in part because the undergrad program has 40-50% Asians, which is unheard of in the elite private schools. But here in America, most are aware of the gap in quality.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think that people see a few other schools as more prestigious in Asia, and that the large composition of Asians is one of many factors as to why they do see it as so prestigious. I think the "gap in quality" comes from different cultural perspectives and values. Many Americans seem to value very small classes (the ol' American LAC), while I imagine in Asia people are more likely to value original ideas or the best teacher possible.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, while it's true that Berkeley has the "world-class" faculty, a lot of them simply don't teach at the undergrad. level so you won't be able to take advantage of them.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I hear this, but I don't have proof of it. The average faculty members teaches 1.8 or so classes. Anyway, I do believe that some faculty don't teach undergrads, but do you have any numbers or source? I know many famous profs and great teachers who do, and few who do not, but obviously I don't know about all over a thousand profs at Berkeley.</p>
<p>Edit- stanford has (at least) one particle accelerator.</p>
<p>^ </p>
<p>I certainly wouldn't mind if mixed with 25-30 students in one class so long as my classmates IQ level is about the same as mine. I think 15 classmates in one class can be quite boring.</p>
<p>I think you made an excellent decision to go to CAL. The physics department is great and Berkeley. As far as science I think that the profs at Berkeley are fantastic and yes they do teach undergraduate courses.</p>
<ol>
<li>Berkeley's Physics programme is world-class and better than Harvard/Princeton/Stanford's.</li>
<li><p>Berkeley's graduate Physics is world-class, but it's worse than Stanford and on par with Harvard and Princeton. It's certainly not better than any of them. Look at the rankings: #1 MIT/Stanford, #3 Caltech, #4 Harvard/Princeton/Berkeley. Berkeley is also the worst of these schools for undergrad.</p></li>
<li><p>Berkeley has a global reputation. Only Harvard is more prestigious.</p></li>
<li><p>Yes, but you also turned down Harvard. Why?</p></li>
<li><p>I come from Asia (I'm Japanese but earned my IB from International School Manila) where Berkeley is considered more prestigious than Princeton and Stanford.</p></li>
<li><p>So are you planning to go back to Asia then? Berkeley is certainly not more prestigious than Princeton and Stanford in the U.S., especially for undergrad. And again, you turned down Harvard.</p></li>
<li><p>I am NOT particularly affected by the tuition rates of the 4 schools since I am an international student, thus tuition charges for me and my case go about the same rates. I do not need scholarship. </p></li>
<li><p>Thus even less reason for you to choose Berkeley.</p></li>
<li><p>the sunny California is better than the East Coast. </p></li>
<li><p>But you turned down Stanford. Why?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>
[quote]
1. Berkeley's Physics programme is world-class and better than Harvard/Princeton/Stanford's.
- Berkeley's graduate Physics is world-class, but it's worse than Stanford and on par with Harvard and Princeton. It's certainly not better than any of them. Look at the rankings: #1 MIT/Stanford, #3 Caltech, #4 Harvard/Princeton/Berkeley. Berkeley is also the worst of these schools for undergrad.
[/quote]
Whats your source? </p>
<p>
[quote]
2. Berkeley has a global reputation. Only Harvard is more prestigious.
- Yes, but you also turned down Harvard. Why?
[/quote]
For 3 reasons mostly personal:
1. I dont really think theres much of a difference between the two, at least in Physics.
2. My brother is also going to study MBA at Haas this September (??) so it would be a good idea theres someone I can run to if emergency comes.
3. I love California than Boston. The weather in Ma is very annoying.</p>
<p>
[quote]
3. I come from Asia (I'm Japanese but earned my IB from International School Manila) where Berkeley is considered more prestigious than Princeton and Stanford.
- So are you planning to go back to Asia then? Berkeley is certainly not more prestigious than Princeton and Stanford in the U.S., especially for undergrad. And again, you turned down Harvard.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Maybe I will go back to Asia but I am not sure of that though. Stanford is more prestigious than Berkeley? My personal sources are not agreeing with you, but then again, they are mostly people who took up MBA. I guess prestige is a relevant thing. Maybe for you but not for everyone. </p>
<p>
[quote]
4. I am NOT particularly affected by the tuition rates of the 4 schools since I am an international student, thus tuition charges for me and my case go about the same rates. I do not need scholarship.
- Thus even less reason for you to choose Berkeley.
[/quote]
Like I said, Berkeley is better than Stanford. Stanford was just a fallback. I originally was thrilled to go to Harvard. BTW, I did also consider going to UK unis like Cambridge but I was rejected. </p>
<p>
[quote]
5. the sunny California is better than the East Coast.
*- But you turned down Stanford. Why? *
[/quote]
Why NOT? Of course I will turn down Stanford anytime the same situation arises in the future. Berkeley is more prestigious than Stanford. Why would I choose a lesser prestigious school? </p>
<p>I dont like the idea of pitting Berkeley to Stanford. Lets limit the discussion to Stanford and Harvard instead.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Source is 2007 US News Graduate Rankings.</p></li>
<li><p>Yes, Stanford is much more prestigious than Berkeley. Maybe when you get to the U.S. you will realize this. I don't know who your personal sources are, but Berkeley is not better than Stanford unless maybe if you go back to Asia. You are the one arguing about prestige in 2. and 3., so that's why I pointed it out.</p></li>
<li><p>No, Berkeley is not better than Stanford. Not for undergrad, not for graduate physics (#1 vs #4), not for MBA (#2 vs #7), and not as an overall university.</p></li>
<li><p>The most relevant comparison is Berkeley vs Stanford because you don't like the East Coast and want to be close to your brother. So even if Harvard and Princeton are better schools, you don't consider them because of those issues. And Berkeley is not more prestigious. Look up the rankings. Ask the Berkeley professors. Ask the Berkeley students. Ask anyone living in the Bay Area which one is more prestigious.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I'm not saying everyone should choose Stanford over Berkeley, but your reasons for choosing Berkeley aren't very valid ones. If Berkeley is so much better than Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford (which is not true), then why do you need to ask for our opinions?</p>
<p>I read in the news that Berkeley's lack of funding is causing problems for their Physics department. One of the leading professors left Berkeley for Cornell recently...</p>