I want the truth!...i can handle it!!!

Graduate School Law School
1

<p>I never thought I'd say this, but after several weeks of researching law school, the law job market, and taking in various people's advice, I may be seriously considering a different path than law school. I still have two years to decide, but I genuinely never realized how bad of a life decision it might be. </p>

<p>This was my first time REALLY researching and looking into it. Not just from movies, TV, popular culture, fantasy, etc. ...It's been more than eye-opening!</p>

<p>Honestly. I always thought I'd be a lawyer from childhood. So, this is serious for me. </p>

<p>Let me genuinely ask folks here (as I've been doing in other online venues and in person with friends & fam), what are your honest experiences with either attending law school and subsequently working in (or out of) law yourself or watching others go through law school and their employment outcomes. </p>

<p>On average or in total, how many --life success stories-- vs. <em>less than optimal/expected</em> outcomes have you seen? </p>

<p>So far, this is what I seem to gather (these can be Googled for verifcation/correction from you guys): </p>

<p>--This is the worst JD graduate market in decades:</p>

<p>--Other than Harvard, Yale, and Stanford law grads, all other program entrants will face an uncertain future. </p>

<p>--For non-HYS T14 law grads, you need to be roughly top-35% of your class to be sure of a well-paying law job. If you're outside of top-35%, you'll have to compete hard for one. Bottom 5-10%-ish of this group will likely be avoided by big law hiring firms.</p>

<p>--For all non-T14 law grads, you need to be roughly top-5% of your class for a well-paying law job. (This, alone, is scary!)</p>

<p>--All others who don't get those big law/well-paying jobs (even public interest ones) will likely be making a median $45-50K-ish/year salary. Given typical law grad student loan debts of $120K-ish (at government interest rates of 7%) , this type of salary to debt ratio is a financial nightmare. After taxes + loan interest/principal payment on a $50K salary, you will likely live in poverty. [Someone can do the calculations.]</p>

<p>--There are a <em>significant number</em> of top law school grads who are in this situation from the indented point above. So, this is no joke. If it's happening to graduates from top law schools, then it's definitely happening to probably the majority of lower ranked law school graduates. You can graduate middle of your class Northwestern...middle of your class Georgetown, middle of your class NYU (all T14 schools), etc. and still not get a big law job or one that pays well enough to earn a good enough salary. And via a few quick calculations, it seems that a "good" salary given $120K law school debt would need to be at least $85K. (You guys can verify that.) Anything lower would put you at significant risk for poverty for many years. Most people not getting those big law or major public interest offers are probably going to statistically fall into this camp of earning less than $85K/year and be handcuffed by law school debt into poverty for at least 10 years. </p>

<p>Please tell me if this is really the case or a good amount of hyperbole? I'm scared now. There's even a blog online I found by a law school professor who writes a lot about this saying how law school is a scam and that it's the worst decision you'll ever make (well, unless you goto Harvard or a top 3 or 4 school...then it's much different, lol). How in the world has this happend to law school and the value of a JD in society? </p>

<p>How accurate am I above? If so, is it more or less a gamble to go to law school for the majority of folks? Like playing roulette with the house having the odds greatly stacked against you?</p>

<p>I'm both upset and scared. But I want to learn more too. Please share your honest thoughts. Thank you.</p>

2

<p>“Honestly. I always thought I’d be a lawyer from childhood. So, this is serious for me.”</p>

<p>Really? Then why do you have four active threads on the Pre-Med page?</p>

<p>I retire; it’s clear that this part of cc has become a late night chat fest; all air, no substance.</p>

3

<p>

No. There are plenty of other schools that are hired from regularly.</p>

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Much more than the bottom 5-10% will not be hired by big law firms or even mid-sized law firms. There just aren’t that many positions. </p>

<p>Demographics also plays a very important role, as does personality. Your transcript may get you an interview, but if the people who interview you don’t want to work with you, travel with you, count on you, spend time with you, you will not be hired.</p>

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<p>I will send you a PM.</p>

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<p>Yes</p>

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<p>Corrected</p>

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<p>You’re liberal with the statistics here and there, but, sure.</p>

<p>So what’s the problem? Stop whining and worrying. Get a GPA and LSAT high enough to earn you a spot at HLS, pray for YLS.</p>

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<p>fieldsports - I can’t thank you enough for your PM. It was deeply illuminating and filled with amazing advice!!!</p>

<p>I might PM ya back sometime. But just wanted to say that I grrrrrrreatly appreciated it!!! You packed in so much info. into that message that I’m going to print it out and put it into my notebook as well. </p>

<p>Thanks so much and good luck to you!!!</p>

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<p>Brownug is a ■■■■■ who just posts on here to see if other people will take the bait and respond.</p>

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<p>Hi crankoldman,</p>

<p>If you look closely back on my posts on pre-med - you can search them in my stats profile and posts history - you’ll see that in many of them (the early ones at least when I was explaining myself before people got to know me in the pre-med section) that I specifically said that I was asking those questions for my sister, who is a frosh this upcoming year. :slight_smile: We chat a lot about pre-med and her worries, so I was curious and wanted to get some perspective. Just like with everything else in life. It’s good to know beforehand how something is so we can prepare!</p>

<p>But yeah…people even responded in those early threads about my sister. lol. I can see how a person might think that I was wasting people’s time with posts in pre-law, pre-med…but just so there’s no mistake, I told everyone that I was asking about questions for my sister in those pre-med threads, so no I’m not pre-med, lol!!! </p>

<p>I’m not sure I’m even 100% pre-law!!! It’s a MUCH different field than med, where it’s almost impossible to not get a job if you graduate with an MD. A JD has much different prospects. </p>

<p>So yeah…just wanted to clear that up, because I felt a little under attack, lol. …Hope that helps. OK, thanks everyone and have a good one!</p>

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<p>Why doesn’t your sister come on here and ask those questions herself? And don’t refer to yourself as pre-law.</p>

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<p>Hi Ghost, I’m gonna entertain ONE last question and then that’s it, lol! Don’t want to spend too much time on this. heh.</p>

<p>But to answer your q: She might …I’m not sure though. I’ve never asked her (I do know she’s on Facebook a lot, but I don’t know what else she does online) if she researches this stuff online and goes on forums. I just know that I want to know these things too and ask. :)</p>

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<p>I think it’s really silly how many thousands of college grads go on the law school and honestly think they will become the big shot on the TV show. …TV! It’s Fiction!! These geniuses really do deserve to go into a profession that most will end up underemployed in.</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t wish $280,000 of non-dischargeable debt and a lifetime of unemployment upon my worst enemy.</p>

<p>Are you a boomer?</p>