I am at Union county college (I plan to transfer to 4 year college) and I want to major in Computer Science. My parents don’t think the major is worth anything and instead want me to take Electrical or Computer Engineering as I will gain more knowledge in more things (that is their argument). I have tried showing them the bureau of labor statistics for computer science and how its just as good as electrical/computer engineering in terms of employment (there are far more jobs for computer science than the latter, 1million jobs in computer science where as 80k for computer/electrical I believe, and computer science is growing a lot faster).
What do you guys think? I would be okay with Computer Engineering (though I would like Computer Science more because I am more interested in programming than making the hardware that I program on, however I can always major in computer engineering and take computer science/programming classes as electives?). They are right for one that you do gain more knowledge with computer engineering, but what scares me ATM is the heavier math involved and again that I am not as interested in it as just computer science. They insist computer engineering and I don’t think I will have a choice in the matter, everything I show them they just shoot it down with something else.
Why so do you think they are “wrong” (I agree with you obv.), simply because it is what I have the motivation in? I know CS is good and CE is good as well, both are good majors but I am hoping from some form of explanation of why to better prove to my parents CS isn’t trash.
Cut it in the middle. Since they want you to do Computer Engineering and you want to do Computer Science, you should take Software Engineering, that way everyone is happy.
Computer Engineering is also a good degree to get into the software business. My son did that and is quite happy although he also enjoyed the hardware aspects of CE. CS has a lot of good job prospects right now and is a fine major so if that is your preference then you should go for it.
Do you understand why exactly your parents don’t think CS is a good option, so that you could come up with something specific to counter them? Or is it possibly just because they have an older mentality and think of “engineering” in general as a strong field and don’t know much about CS (and therefore don’t “trust it,” in some sense).
We know the strong position that the Bureau of Labor Statistics (http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_102.htm) takes on the matter of the numbers of openings to expect in the two occupational areas. Presumably the BLS is going largely, but not entirely, on the basis of what has been happening in recent years. The BLS says, “Since 2003, employment in the IT industry has grown by 37 percent.”
Do sources independent of them say the same thing?
At a National Science Foundation site (http://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/recentgrads/2010/html/RCG2010_DST27.html) is 2010 data on what job areas employed bachelor’s degree holders were working in shortly after graduating. Rather more Computer Science (CS) graduates (62%) than Electrical Engineering (EE) / Computer Engineering (CE) graduates (57%) were working in their field. This is indicative of how many jobs in the field are readily available. However, Computer Science graduates were found to be much more likely (34% of them) than EE/CE graduates (18%) to be working outside of science/engineering entirely. Also, data (http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323936804578229873392511426) indicates that unemployment is lower for EE/CE graduates than for CS graduates.
If the objective is to work in computers, then CS appears stronger. If the objective is to have pay and solidity of employment, then EE/CE appears stronger. Some combination of the natural giftedness of EE/CE people and the rigor of their education has, on average, enabled them to cope better with the job market.
The National Science Foundation webpage noted above also indicates that EE/CE is weaker than other engineering disciplines for working in the field after graduation.
A few years ago computer engineering WAS regarded as great for job growth. And ten years ago there were substantially more CS graduates than in more recent years.
A thing about majors that should be said is that the major, that is the words used to describe the major, typically has to be chosen on the basis of pleasing others (people you do or will depend on - employers and perhaps parents). There is room in all the major programs I’ve seen for electives for the student to pursue interests outside of others’ wants.
People in fact engage in a lot of occupational diaspora. They move away from their majors into related and unrelated fields. There is a good depiction of this at http://www.census.gov/dataviz/visualizations/stem/stem-html/ . Electives and even extracurricular activities during college seem to be frequent operatives in this.
I would suggest making sure you learn how to do the work of a software developer whether you major in CS or CE.
I feel there remains less computer hardware to be built than software to be designed.
My boy just graduated with a BS in Computer Engineering from the University of Michigan but ended graduating only one course short of a major in Computer Science as well. In other words, you will be exposed to a significant amount of computer programming while fulfilling the normal requirements for CE Just take additional courses in CS
@nanotechnology
I have tried and tried but at this point its either if I want CS I get my own job and work for the courses (which is viable) or they said they won’t pay, if I do CE they will pay. Pretty much the reasons for this and I almost quote my father are that “Computer science is a s**t major because it will not give me a good base/foundation”. “Computer engineering/electrical will give me a good foundation…” and then he started saying things how I learn about microprocessors, electrical circuits etc. so essentially Computer Engineering has more to offer?
@jjwinkie
Not exactly sure what you mean. More math would make me think differently but from what i have read online and talked to people that program, they say that the level of math many colleges require for certain majors is barely used.
The other problem is I am not the best in math but my dad says I am and truly believes I am, I tell him I am not and he says that I am just being lazy. I honestly cant picture myself doing whatever it is as a CE, I don’t even know what they do, ive tried googling but I just can’t wrap my head around exactly what it is. What I am going to be able to do alone…I just don’t really get it, or even working in collaboration what I would be doing.
Part of the value of extensive advanced math is practice in rigorous logical thinking, which I feel will make your programming better. In my jobs I applied virtually none of the equations I learned in high level math, but I constantly benefited from the strong logical orientation it gave me.
Your dad wants you to undergo rigor in college, because then you will be better equipped to deal with the work world and likely to accomplish more. (And, frankly, I think it enables one to function better in the non-work parts of life, too.) Computer Science would probably be sufficient, but your dad wants to be more sure than that. (By the way, I see the CS program at my alma mater, UC Davis, is actually pretty rigorous, with nearly as much calculus and other high math as CE. It occurs to me that, if you haven’t already, you should look at the specific course requirements of a 4-year college that you could go to. The program may be more rigorous than either you or your dad have been thinking. And it may be that there is a lot of variation in the level of rigor of CS programs at different schools.)
Let me tell you my own experience with laziness and university-level math. I went to pursue a degree in chemistry at UC Davis after 12 years out of full-time education. I got a D on my first midterm; I had done the assigned homework only. After that I spent 11 hours a day doing math problems for more than a year (no exaggeration - I recorded my times). I ended up getting very good grades in it (and enjoying it a lot once I became good). When I hear people say that calculus, etc. is too hard for them, I think they’re probably not working hard enough at it.
What advanced math courses have you tried to do, what kind(s) of school(s) did you take them at, how much did you study and what grades and satisfaction did you get?
“cant picture myself doing whatever it is as a CE, I don’t even know what they do, ive tried googling but I just can’t wrap my head around exactly what it is.” People interested in / knowledgeable about the engineering field may visit The Engineering Majors forum but not this one. Maybe someone there can inform you about what CEs do.
I am not a big fan of deception but, it doesn’t sound like an evidence based approach is going to do the trick.
I am guessing your parents are helping pay for your education - giving them some say in your coursework. At most colleges, parents can’t see your current enrollments, transcript, grades or declared major, or much of anything more than what is owed.
To appease your parents, apply to your transfer destination as a CE major. If halfway through your first semester you still want to pursue CS, change your major to CS. Tell them or don’t … You are an adult so, the decision is yours. It’s not like you’ll be pursuing a totally different field of study - you won’t have to explain why you need art supplies again…