<p>It is a fact that the middle affluent are flocking to top State U’s. They can’t afford the Ivies and the Ivies are full of smart/affluent foreign students, minorities, low income/high achieving students and the super rich. A full price 200k tuition is not a good use for most people considering the time value of money. My 800 Math SAT student will be going to a high quality State U. And consequently, the Ivy League gold cup is losing its luster. Because it is out of reach for many of the smartest kids in the country.</p>
<p>raiderade, I’m middle-class, too. I am not a fan of how FA is determined or distributed. But, unlike some, I am a fan of FA. And non-need-based merit-aid, too, unlike some of the need-only posters. Sometimes I feel like I’m a group of one. ;)</p>
<p>Learn the rules. finaid.org, threads or posts by sybbie or calmom here on cc, the collegeboard calculators. Never assume. Research. Learn. Strategize. Choose.</p>
<p>It’s hard work. Start now. No. I mean now. Tonight. ;)</p>
<p>RocketLouise, I do really understand your side and agree with it. I realize fully that you need and deserve help with college. I just feel like, unfortunately, my family invested their money in the worst way possible in terms of financial aid. I think they should have invested all of their money in antique furniture which isn’t taken into account on an EFC calculator, haha.</p>
<p>I have not read through the whole thread, so I apologize if this has been covered.</p>
<p>Geeps, let me get this straight. It is NOT okay for my D’s school to give her 100% need based aid, but it WOULD be okay for her to go to another school that would give her 100% merit aid? Are you saying that a student can only fall into one category or the other? My D has 100% need based aid at her school, yet she was qualified for full merit based aid at other schools. Where would you prefer she go? And why does it matter to you? </p>
<p>My D had alot of “merit” to her to just get admitted to her school. Sorry if that isn’t enough for you.</p>
<p>“Don’t play the victim. I know most low income kids and their families would rather have the money to pay for it themselves then have to hope and pray the financial aid gods smile upon them…”</p>
<p>Above comment irritates me to no end. I took calculus 3xs and busted my butt to pay my own way thru college- H too, self paid for BS & grad school-- up at 5 AM - 8 pm working complicated work problems. We’re compensated in salary which sounds like it should be cushy but we get the privelege to pay highest tax bracket (45%) in country & we charged an inflated tuition rate. Net, net–$50k per yr is really $90K. Doesn’t leave anything extra.</p>
<p>I should have bought a Dunkin Doughnuts or a bar when I was 21. I hate calculus.</p>
<p>And since I’m on a tirade-- Obama get your hand out of my pocket.</p>
<p>livesinnewjersey…you are exactly right, which is why the upper middle class is on a revolt against this financial tyranny…which is what it is. Your kid could likely kick the butt of most of the kids on financial aid at these schools, but oops, your financial misfortune was that you screwed up and did modestly well. It has been very demotivating for my son to know all the way through H.S. that his performance did not matter, we could not afford Ivy League. So there he sits with his 800 Math SAT, and his choices are State U or small LAC…because his shameful parents only saved $300,000 for three kids to go to college on. Hence, all of us in the high middle know the truth. The Ivy League is no longer for the best and brightest.</p>
<p>^^Im at the top of my class, nearly perfect ACTs and have worked my butt off for every opportunity I get. My choice is either a college with great need based aid or community…so you can say the same thing-my performance will likely not change my fate</p>
<p>I know myself and quite a few other posters have families who have struggled to just make ends meet, yet we still achieved…it wasn’t a “choice” of our parents to struggle-it was the reality of our lives</p>
<p>Bottom line…the “best” schools should have the “best” students…and they do not. Because many of the best students are from moderately affluent families…not the super rich. They have parents who are doctors/lawyers/CPAs. And they make $150K and they pay all the taxes and they cannot got to a $50,000 a year school without mortgaging the farm.</p>
<p>It sure doesn’t seem like the Ivy League is losing its luster. There are record numbers of applicants. I agree that it is discouraging if you are set on that particular athletic conference and you can’t afford it, but there are many, many schools where a student can get every bit as good an education and has a shot at merit money. There is not a lowering of standards by the Ivy schools, though, just because there are students there who receive financial aid. These kids are every bit as academically qualified. That argument doesn’t fly.<br>
We have made our final Ivy tuition payment and it is like getting a huge raise!</p>
<p>.are you serious? .If you’re making $200k and can’t full pay then you didn’t start saving earlier enough, live beyond your means, are terrible money managers, or perhaps have some high medical bills. I have zero sympathy for any family earning $200k and not being able to pay for their kids to go to college…</p>
<p>geeps20 - do the math, I just did it for you and you can’t seem to comprehend. Show me on paper. If someone is making 200,000 now, do you think they started making that when they were 20 or 30?</p>
<p>Mom, sorry to burst your bubble, but the State Schools are getting a higher and higher number of the highest achieving students from families with high middle incomes and it is vastly improving their statistics. The Ivies are relying more and more on international students to raise their statistics. </p>
<p>Oh, and about the increased apps? Consider the fact that the Ivies are now using the common application.<br>
[Apps</a>, Acceptances Rise for 2009 | The Cornell Daily Sun](<a href=“http://cornellsun.com/node/22658]Apps”>http://cornellsun.com/node/22658)
There is an increase in applications from kids who will require aid. Why SHOULDN’T THEY apply? What do they have to lose? They get guarantees of a minimal debt load. Whereas Drs. kid X knows they will graduate from college $100k or more in the hole. Uh, no thanks. Note the bottom line of this article. The schools would not list the scores of accepted applicants. Because they know the truth. Many of the brightest kids are now really at Quality State U. </p>
<p>Professional America is largely looking at the Ivy League with disdain.</p>
<p>geeps, If you make 200k a year, you probably pay 80k in taxes, you are likely self-employed and pay both sides of your Social Security, you get no tax deduction for what you DO pay for college AND you will pay for every penny of your kid’s education. You haven’t got a clue.</p>
<p>In the top twenty are Harvard, Pomona, Amherst, Dartmouth, MIT, Princeton, Swarthmore, and Yale…NONE offer merit aid…The first big public is number 56, Illinois</p>
<p>Hmm…well maybe it’s just the ACT, let’s look at the SAT</p>
<p>way off already. On $200k, after deductions of about $15k minimum(standard deduction is $11,400) and family of 4 exemptions would equal another $14k…so that’s $170k taxable income or $36k in federal taxes(from tax booklet) $8k FICA…add another $12k for state taxes(7%) That’s $144k net or close to $12,000k monthly, not $8k as you posted.</p>