IB Diploma worth it? Suffering in a foreign language?

Applying to College
21

Do you have a French Honors Society? Maybe someone will tutor you in exchange for CAS hours? The key is to get you vocab down and work on grammar- there are lots of practice books. Like a PP said listen to movies or TV in French. The IB programme is suppose to be challenging- French is your challenge. Next year you will write essays and personal statements for college applications. Most have a question about a bump in the road- this could be what you write about. It looks a lot better to stick it out and work your hardest than to quit to save GPA. Colleges will see your transcripts and know you dropped it.

Every kid at my daughter’s school will say that foreign language is their weakest subject- the funny thing is, it’s one of our school’s strongest exit scores.

22

Yes, I am actually in the French Honor Society because the first two years of French I had straight A’s. My French 3/IB Teacher thought that it would be a good idea for me to help the French 3 kids with their assignments as a way of “reviewing” the material from previous years. She knew that I was struggling to adjust to her teaching style, I literally have to retake all the tests/quizzes. No, I will not have to do the EE and CAS, the thing is I really do not want to drop the diploma because at graduation when all my friends are getting recognition for being a candidate, I will regret not doing so. At the same time, it will open my schedule up to take IB Global Politics and IB Film Studies which is really interesting to me. I have always loved the french language and culture but I just can’t adjust to this teacher’s teaching style… I have stayed after school with her today and she said to work on sentence structure, we worked on an essay together, but I am very afraid that I will give it my all and still end up with a mediocre grade in comparison to all the work I put in.

I have had soo many mental breakdowns in that class, my mood automatically shifts when I enter that class and I honestly end up crying because I feel so overwhelmed in that class. Everyone else is practically fluent, since they are from french speaking countries. I go to a public IB school, but I can’t afford private tutoring because I come from a low income family.

If I were to drop the diploma, I would still continue on with my higher level courses (business, literature, topics) and possibly with SL too (biology, math studies), however, ever since seventh grade my french 1 teacher had made me develop a love for the french culture but nowadays I feel so lost in that class that all I do is breakdown.

My parents tell me to drop the course because they know how stressed it is making me- along with SAT prep/clubs/sports, but I really want to excel in this course just for the sake of feeling accomplished that all my hard work did not go to waste.

What would you think looks best for elite colleges such as Georgetown?

23

Hi inquinsitive - I can’t tell you what college admissions officers think of the IB Diploma or whether it really is an admissions plus. I can say, as the parent of a senior who is pursuing the diploma, everything you say about how much work and stress it adds rings so, so true, and your parents’ view to drop it given all the other great, time-consuming things you are doing is the advice we gave our D too.

Here is my two cents worth of opinion, and it may not be worth that. I think you should only do it if it will give you personal satisfaction, and you should not do it for college admissions purposes. You are obviously going to have no shortage of rigor whether you get the diploma or not. If colleges really thought it was a huge plus, they would either say so outright or sophisticated applicants, parents, counselors, etc. would know it is viewed as a huge plus. In our experience, there just isn’t that much college admissions buzz around it, and frankly who knows how many AOs are really that familiar with it or really, truly understand and value how much work it is. And because it is not even earned until basically the summer, after all the IB test scores are back and EE submitted, etc., how much can they even weight it? Heck, with ED, EDII , and EA, the app process is even more front-loaded, and therefore further from when an IB diploma is actually earned. They’ve got your intention to do it and see you have a case load consistent with it, but that’s it. So as much as anything it is an indication you are pushing yourself academically and supplement it with arts, athletics, and service. But they are already going to see that with or without the diploma.

I just don’t think it is going to make or break you at Georgetown or any other college, and you’ll either be in or out of the conversation at schools like that based upon a holistic review GPA, test scores, rigor, and a whole bunch of other things that have nothing to do with the diploma (and in many instances have nothing to do with you, but rather having to do with what the college itself feels it needs for whatever sort of class they are trying to build).

Our D has not taken our advice, and she continues to pursue the diploma. I believe she does it b/c she wants to, and can’t imagine she’d be fighting through it for reasons other than personal satisfaction. So, can totally relate if you chose to go for it, but again my two cents is ONLY if you want to for reasons other than admissions (or at least not only for admissions).

I am not familiar with graduation recognition for being a diploma candidate, and can understand how important that might feel in the moment. I will say, probably the moment after you graduate, and certainly by the time you step on your college campus (and even more certainly when you are old like me), it won’t matter. But if important to you, that’s perfectly understandable.

Mostly inquinsitive, I can empathize with the struggle and the intensity of what you are going through. The diploma is really hard. Take care of yourself mentally and physically. If the diploma quest is compromising your mental or physical health, it is not worth it no matter what. As a parent, I imagine that’s where your parents are coming from.

Take good care!

24

By the way, ab initio only counts as a 6th subject/elective, you still need to pass SL language for the Diploma.

Georgetown does give credit for IB courses if you score high enough on the exams.

Do non-Diploma students still take exams?

25

“Everyone else is practically fluent, since they are from french speaking countries.”

If this is the situation, then yof course you feel out-paced by the rest of the class! Think of the kids you know who are just arrived and still learning English, and how they struggle in classes here before they catch on. Certainly your teacher knows that the class has very different levels with you as a language learner, and the others with at least heritage-level (if not full, native) fluency. The challenge for your instructor is determining what is an appropriate grading scale for you (and any other language learners in the class) vs. the heritage/near-native/native speakers. What you need to be learning, and what they need to work on, are very different things.

Speak with your guidance counselor and the IB coordinator at your school to find out what there experiences have been with students in your situation with FL. Certainly they should have ideas for you. And keep working with your teacher, she’s in a tough place with a class like yours, but she is the person best positioned to help you keep mastering your language skills.

26

I’m so sorry for how stressed you are, take several deep breaths!!!

Okay- Since your school allows you to stay in your HL classes, which are the only classes Georgetown will even take (they will give you nothing for Business) and they will only take a score of 6-7, then dropping French is not as big of a deal. Math Studies won’t get you any credit at most schools and the same holds true for Biology SL. Georgetown has a language placement test- I’m not sure what this means, but it can mean you need to pass a certain level of French in college in order to graduate.

from Georgetown website:
Students who have studied French in the past are required to take the online placement exam during the summer and to follow the placement recommendations at the end of the exam. Even if you have taken the SAT II, the French department requires all students planning to enroll in a fall 2017 French course to take the online placement exam during the summer and to follow the placement recommendations at the conclusion of the exam. In the event that there is a discrepancy between the placement exam result and the SAT II placement, you should use the higher placement.

Your parents know you best, the teacher and IB Coordinator know you. Talk with them and listen. If my daughter’s school (also a Public) would have allowed her to take all IB courses without the Diploma, in retrospect I would have told her to jump at it! They don’t.

My daughter’s struggle last year was Biology SL- the teacher was not her style. She spent a ton of extra time doing work watching video’s anything she could do. She made a B and was proud and jumped up and down when she got a 4 on the exit. Success does not = A all the time!!! Her college actually takes both math studies and all SL level classes (check out Florida State schools- they love IB and are super friendly with credit, they also give credit for scores of 4 and above).

Run your GPA with the worst case scenario- a C. I think you will be surprised how little that pulls down your GPA. My daughter (thanks to Spanish) got a B for the semester (actually got 2) and her GPA went still went UP! Being a senior, she is over the GPA thing, her 4.96 means NOTHING.

27

Your mental health is the most important priority in these circumstances. Have you met with a therapist?

Can you sit down with the IB Coordinator, your guidance counselor and your parents? Your GC and perhaps IB Coordinator can share what Diploma vs. non-Diploma might mean in terms of admissions coming from your high school and your IB program, for the schools you are interested in. Perhaps your stress will be more manageable if you get more information about how your current record, with some possible B range grades, may play out, based on your school’s past experience.

In terms of college admissions, being a Diploma candidate, with all the projects, time management and heavy reading and writing work load, does carry weight. It can also affect whether your guidance counselor will check the coveted “most rigorous curriculum available” box on the report for the Common App. Ask your guidance counselor whether a student taking IB classes but not a Diploma candidate, will get that “most rigorous curriculum available” designation. Another consideration, most highly selective colleges expect the equivalent of 4 years of a foreign language. Sounds like you completed the equivalent of French 3 – is AP French or French 4 an option as opposed to IB French SL?

Bottom line, if your stress is unmanageable, then you should make a change. Work with your school to find a change that makes the most sense in light of your health and your goals. At the same time, if your stress is exacerbated because you think that a B- is going to kill your changes at certain schools, then get more specific information from your school so that you have a better sense of the pros and cons of staying in IB French SL vs. changing. More information may help reduce your stress.

28

@nw2this - Not necessarily so. My daughter is in an IB only school. She takes French ab. She will have the diploma.