Not sure, but these are done through the AO, not the coach. Most D3 visits are not paid for other than local transportation, in dorm stays and meals on campus, at least that was our experience. We usually scheduled our kid to come in Thursday night so he could attend class on Friday, do some social stuff Friday and leave either Sat or Sunday. Some schools had rules about total number of nights he could stay but there is an easy workaround where you stay a day with either a friend or through the AO as an admissions visit.
1 Like
On diversity visits, do they meet with coaches off site or not at all? Is that against the rules? Can we ask to get paired up with an athlete during these fly-in visits?
Getting 1st crack at class registration is more of a d1 thing, as far as I know.
1 Like
I fully believe that D3 is often the best way to go for academically talented students who will not receive an athletic scholarship. Even at the Ivies, D1 seems to require a much bigger commitment to the sports without adding much to the comradery or other benefits of being on a team. As a paying parent, I don’t want to hear that my kid needs to do a full 20 hours of in-season practice per week!
For going4three, all of the colleges you listed meet 100% of need without loans for the income level he/she indicated. Definitely worth a hard look!
2 Likes
It’s been a while since I looked at the contact rules, and I believe Covid has caused some changes. D3 has always been less stringent. For the coaches that used the diversity fly in in the past, I believe they coordinated with the AO so that the recruit got to stay with a teammate, but I think the recruit had to attend the various AO events and follow the rules and conditions of the fly in. I think the best thing to do is to apply for the fly ins and try to coordinate with the coaches. Besides NCAA rules, there are also conference and school rules about visits.
1 Like
One suggestion about law school, fuggedaboutit. I don’t mean forget about becoming a lawyer (which your son also may want to do), forget about it as a criterion for selecting an undergrad institution. Undergraduate school choice rarely influences admission to law schools, with only the slightest effect at the margins. Two things are relevant: GPA and LSATs. Working as a paralegal during the summers will have no effect, largely because virtually every college graduate seeking admission to law school does this.
So if your son graduates with a 3.95 (and high LSATs) from Podunk U, he is more likely to get into a highly selective law school than the graduate with a 3.2 from the University of Chicago with the same LSAT scores. Where undergraduate school choice could matter is if the Chicago and Podunk U grads both had a 3.95 GPA. Then all other things being equal, the nod might go to the Chicago grad because of the perception that Chicago is a more challenging school.
Contrary to popular belief, it is no longer true that you need to go to an Ivy League law school to get a good job in law. You do need to do very well in the law school that you do attend. If you are no. 1 in your class at Podunk Law School and are selected for law review, then you almost certainly will be able to land a good job.
2 Likes
If you mean competition in biology major courses, it is more that pre-meds in those courses will be competing for the usually-limited number of A grades since pre-meds need to maintain very high college GPAs. Pre-law students have similar college GPA needs, but tend to be less concentrated in particular majors and courses.
1 Like
@gointhruaphase I get what you are saying, and we are doing net price calculators and Podunk U is still more money than the Ivies or great D3s. He could end up forgetting about law school but I doubt it! He is so focused and determined and so far it is a rare thing for him not to get what he is determined to, especially after working so hard in both athletics and academics for his dream. He has his heroes in the field on both sides of the border. We’ll have to see how things shake out!
My daughter did get course registration priority at her Div 2 school. I don’t think it made much difference as everyone seemed to get the classes they needed; it may have helped in getting a desired section or lab time. My daughter who wasn’t an athlete never had trouble getting into classes she wanted at a much bigger school, so I think at most schools it’s a benefit without a lot of punch to it.
I don’t think there are limits on official visits to D3 schools. Some of the schools follow the same rules about providing meals and tickets to games, but the NCAA doesn’t put limits on the D3 schools, so if the fly in provides an extra meal or contact with a coach, it shouldn’t matter.
1 Like
@twoinanddone Thank you for the information, this is such a nice forum to get questions answered and anecdotal information that helps a family de-stress about certain unknown elements of this crazy process. Another strategy we thought about was that if certain schools gave advanced standing for a IB Dip, or credits, it could alleviate the course load over all and give him some breathing room at the back end of his degree process to prepare for the LSAT. Anyone take advantage of all the credits and receive advanced standing going into college?
IB (generally only HL), AP, A-level, and college credit earned in high school may give any, all, or none of the following, depending on the college:
- Credit units toward the number to graduate. May help graduating early, avoid graduating late, or graduating on time with lighter course loads. (Some colleges may give generic credit units for completing the IB Diploma if the specific IB HL exams are given fewer than that number.)
- Subject credit against requirements. May allow for taking additional free electives in place of the required courses.
- Advanced placement into higher level courses. May allow avoiding repeating frosh-level material and completing a sequence early, allowing for additional free electives later.
Since each college has its own policy, you need to look it up for each college. Note that scores earned in IB, AP, and A-level exams can be relevant to whether the college gives any of the above (the nominal “passing” score may not be sufficient for a given exam at a given college).
1 Like
My daughter entered without a single credit from IB or AP! She was also in engineering and needed 131 credits to graduate, so most semesters were pretty packed with 16-18 credits.
In many of the schools you are looking at, they don’t do credits but courses, having students take 4 courses in a semester. Not sure how having credits coming in works - maybe only to use for a requirement (math, history) or for advanced placement?
My daughter wished she had taken the required English courses as Dual Enrollment in high school, and maybe the required history course. She didn’t enjoy those in college and would have really liked to have skipped them.
The NCAA does require the athlete to be a full time student, so any semester would have to have 12 credits/whatever the school requires as full time, so he won’t be able to have a really light semester.
1 Like
A four course per semester college where all courses have equal credit value usually means that a course translates to 4 semester credit hours at colleges using the semester credit hour system (where 120-128 credits are needed to graduate).
Such a college may choose to give credit for a course, or not, for some IB HL, AP, A-level score. Same for subject credit or advanced placement.
12 credits per semester is the minimum full time course load for various purposes (e.g. financial aid, NCAA, etc.), but a student taking that course load will need 10 semesters to graduate if they do not have credit from IB HL, AP, A-level, etc. coming in. A real full time course load to graduate in 8 semesters would be 15-16 credits per semester or the equivalent in other credit systems.
1 Like
@ucbalumnus and @twoinanddone, thanks for the clarifications! What I don’t know could fill volumes! We are hoping that we don’t have to repeat any material and so sequential courses are ok, and then whatever electives at the back end is good. The goal is to graduate on time.
This is turning into such an interesting thread. You asked above whether there are blogs where people discuss college baseball. I am not sure about that, but once your son starts applying, he might be invited to join a FB group for potential recruits. My son really benefited from a group set up for the incoming track team members at Denison - at the first stage, it gave him a sense who he’d be playing with and then, after he accepted, it helped him to get to know some people before he set foot on campus. Maybe your son could ask the coaches if their schools have anything like this. More generally, many schools are offering virtual panel discussions with current students and administration - my son was just asked to participate in a couple of these scheduled for February. I also wanted to second what @ucbalumnus says about credits. It really varies a lot from school to school what can be used, either to gain credit or to gain access to higher-level courses. We eventually just gave it up, as my son wasn’t interested either in graduating more quickly or taking a lighter courseload. He had hoped to be able to take a pass on Psych 101 after taking Psych HL in high school, but he ended up taking it and really enjoying it. Regarding law school, it is generally true that any major can be good preparation for law. One exception is where a student thinks they might want to become involved in intellectual property work, in which case a STEM background can be key. A lawyer who focuses on biotech-related work, for example, will often have an undergraduate science degree.
1 Like
Re college baseball website, I highly recommend High School Baseball on the Web. http://www.hsbaseballweb.com. Lots of information on recruiting, colleges, showcases, tournament teams, etc.
Re AP, it’s not the end of the world if the school you choose does not accept AP credit. I certainly wouldn’t put it as the first criterion in the list for college selection. That said, two of mine benefitted quite a bit from AP credit. It allowed one to reduce the load in season. It allowed another to graduate early during Covid (at a significant financial savings). It sure is nice to have in your back pocket.
1 Like
@going4three While I can’t help with anything regarding sports, perhaps I can give a bit of insight as a parent of a Native American student (CDIB and tribal enrollment) who graduated from an elite university (UChicago) this past June. In fact, she was the only female NA to graduate in her class. She plans on entering law school in 2022, so she and your son have overlapping interests.
I’d gladly answer any questions regarding her experience at UChicago.
1 Like
Hello Everyone, I am back with the college list so far! It took a lot of discussion and more research about STEM offerings that he was interested in (new development), he attended a school sponsored engineering event and was intrigued. A new AISES membership has fueled his interest. So here is the list: Let me know what you think;
High Reaches Program Baseball FinAid
- MIT Mech Eng Div 3 Will meet need
- Harvard Mech En/csci Div 1 Needs met
- Stanford Comp Eng Div1/rec EFC =0
- Dartmouth Comp Eng Div 1 EFC= 0
Reaches
- John Hopkins Mech Eng Div 3 Needs met
- Swarthmore Civ Eng Div 3 Needs met
- Denison Comp Sci Div 3 Needs met
- UCLA Mech/Aero Eng Rec/Div 1 $$$
- Cornell CEE Div 3 EFC =0
- Wash U Comp Sci Eng Div 3 $$
Target
- Middlebury Mech Eng transfer to Dart Div 3 $$
- Wm & Mry Combine Eng degree Div 3 $$
- McGill Civ Eng Club Band covered
- Trinity (Conn) Eng Div 3 needs met
- Trinity (Texas) Eng Div 3 needs met
Safety
- UBC (Local) Env Eng NAIA Band
2 UVic (Van Isle) Env Eng NAIA Band - UWash (State) Env Eng Div 1 $
Also a strong approach to diversity or recruitment of NA was considered. If the school had a long history of Native American presence, it made the list. He didn’t want to be the only Native American in the program or school. He thought about Duke but read some blogs where NAs were not treated well and decided to forget about it. Still reviewing Bates and Williams for size and diversity. Let me know if you think we have misplaced a school in a category.
Thanks all
If engineering is the desired major, be aware that few students who start in 3+2 programs (like in “target #1 and #2” in your list) actually transfer. This can be due to various reasons, including not being admitted to the “2” school or not being able to afford the extra year or not getting enough financial aid at the “2” school.
Does the $, $$, $$$ in your list mean cost? If so, what level is affordable? Have you run the net price calculator on each college’s web site?
I don’t know anything about STEM majors, but shouldn’t Denison and Middlebury trade places? Denison might even move to the safety category.
2 Likes