Cornell is D1, not D3
William & Mary is D1, not D3, and wouldn’t that be more of a reach if OOS?
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I think UCLA will cost too much unless he can be recruited for baseball. UCLA baseball is a top program so if he can get in there on baseball, I think he could get in anywhere for baseball.
The challenge with categorizing any school in athletic recruiting is the sliding scale of admissions outcomes for athletic recruiting. (This is more for other parents than you since I know you’ve been through this!) Schools with less competitive teams but more competitive ordinary admissions could move an impact recruit who would transform the team into a “safety” for admissions. On the other hand, an easier ordinary admissions for a really good, national competitive team, could mean a prospect may get in (or not) RD but not have a spot on the team – the challenge is getting the roster spot. Denison acceptance rate is 28-29%. If an athlete is recruited, with a pre-read and coach offers a roster spot with ED application, then may be “safe.” I don’t know how Denison compares to Middlebury for baseball. But, for instance, if someone were Men’s Lax or Swimming at Denison, I’d say it’s a whole less “safe” since those are teams competing for national championships.
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Thank you for the clarification, we were trying to get it all in! M &W is D1 too, my bad, DS has friends there, so it was on the list! Cornell was a last minute addition, but deserves a longer look.
He loves UCLA and was excited about their Aero Engineering program, if admitted, he would tryout for the team but would probably end up playing club. Too competitive for baseball.
@cinnamon1212 Thanks for the clarification, I wasn’t too sure about these schools, DS liked the transfer to Dartmouth at Middlebury for his program, not sure if the programs were comparable.
@ucbalumnus Duly noted, we are just happy to get the list together and will now work with it and rework as time and interest serves. $ is affordable, $$ is with loans, $$$ is it would be out of reach unless a miracle happened. Wash U, UCLA, we sense could be hopeless even if he did get in, he liked the school spirit and vibe at these schools so it made the list. I remember a thread that talked about how the list changed after a visit but can’t remember the name of it, that may be helpful as we pare down the list. UC Berkley has a great Aero engineering program but that is such a far reach in every category that we abandoned it, plus housing is only guaranteed for freshman and the costs would add up to make it impossible for us.
Then you should put many more $ on UCLA as there is very little money for out of state (or country) students.
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@twoinanddone you are correct, we looked at other UCs but it was so out of reach, we abandoned them but for some reason, hope springs eternal when it comes to UCLA. Even after many discussions, he wasn’t willing to give it up! With no diversity recruiting at the UCs, it makes for a very Looooong reach. Native Americans from anywhere other than Cali will pin their hopes elsewhere. Stanford stayed because it has 50 years of intentional Native American recruiting and a designated space for NA, that we felt we may slip through due to their institutional goals regarding NAs.
I’m sorry, I get lost in all the sports stuff, but I did want to mention that if your kid gets into an Ivy he should have a reasonable chance at getting 100% financial need met. @BKSquared has alluded to that, but I think it bears repeating.
So with the UCs, I heard that you can apply for Chancellor’s or Regent’s scholarships, does that mitigate the costs? When I use the net price calculator, it is abysmal ($42,800 per year), we would all die if we were to send our son there.
I have no idea, to be honest; I am more familiar with the Ivies.
Application for Regents’ / Chancellor’s scholarships is by invite after applying for admission. I.e. no additional application initially, but there may be things to do if invited.
Historically, UCB and UCLA offered a “meet need” amount for R&C scholars with financial need based on FAFSA, including non-California residents, but it may be changed for future admits. If you use the net price calculator for a California resident, then turn any student loans and work into additional grant/scholarship, you will get the approximate net price for R&C scholars with financial need if they continue historical practice. Assume that R&C scholarship is a high reach.
Other UC campuses’ R&C scholarships are fixed amounts (and not that large).
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The point @Midwestmomofboys makes is important. Athletic recruiting can really shuffle the match, reach, safety hierarchy. For a good athlete who is searching at the right competitive level, they all might be safeties.
So I’d be more focused right now on figuring out where there’s coach interest. Is your son a D3 player, Ivy, etc.? And has he cast a wide net within the appropriate level (if D3, schools like Pomona, Harvey Mudd, Carleton, etc., might be worth an email; if Ivy I’d be contacting a few more coaches in that conference to get a feel for the different programs). If the PAC 12 schools are realistic athletic options then maybe the D3s drop off the list, but you need to think about whether, except for Stanford, they’d be affordable (baseball is an equivalency sport, so you could be looking at 25% scholarship).
You’ll have a good sense of athletic fit by mid to late summer I’d think. If things work out, there’ll be admissions and FA pre reads, official visits (or some COVID era version of that), and hopefully by Oct. or so, an offer of coach support at one or more schools. With the exception of MIT, assuming coach support, your son could be confident of admission and you’d know what the FA package looks like.
At that point your son can decide if he wants that option or if he’d rather roll the dice with a more traditional application process. It’s at this point that some of your son’s non-athletic strengths will become more important and the reach, match, safety framework will fit better. And of course you can be doing that research in parallel and building a backup list while the athletic recruiting is happening.
The good news is that UBC is a great safety option; plenty of west coast kids cross the border to attend there, so you’re fortunate to have that option.
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Two cautions on the 3+2 programs:
(1) I would be surprised if a coach would use a slot on a 3-year only athlete, so if that is the “hook” needed for admissions, I would take 3+2 schools off the list; and
(2) I did a 3+2 program way back in the day. ucbalumnus is right that few kids actually complete the program (we got the “look to your left, look to your right, only one of you will finish the program” speech). In addition to being hard, you end up missing a real senior year with your first school friends, and the second school feels more like graduate school with little opportunity to make friends. And, on top of that, the 2 years amounts to a full course load of straight engineering classes (I took linear algebra as my “easy” class).
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A couple of thoughts based on history (i.e., things can change at any time with a good recruiting class). Baseball-wise, Denison may be stronger than Middlebury, although Middlebury has improved since 2017 after a coaching change. I would think that a more pointed selection would be Tufts, which has engineering and historically a strong baseball team, although the baseball coach can be a shade gruff. It used to be that Trinity was extremely strong, until Coach Decker went to Harvard. Of late, not so much. In the NESCAC, the best baseball teams would be Amherst, Tufts, Wesleyan (although some complain about the coach), Williams, and Bowdoin.
Johns Hopkins has a very strong team. Swarthmore used to be very weak, but it has improved of late. However, I don’t think Swarthmore is playing in 2021, so that could affect recruiting - one way or the other.
I also advocate consideration of the Patriot League. I think you would find a fairly high level of baseball (combined with engineering) at Lehigh, Bucknell, and Lafayette
I think you need to figure out which division your son is capable of playing in. That will help narrow down your list.
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Thank you for your response, I haven’t looked at thee Patriot league at all, we’ve been on the fence with adding Bowdoin back in. Do you have any idea about their health insurance for athletes for either of these conferences? Any anecdotal information can help as well. His metrics have said D111 or maybe a shot at Ivy, unless he really develops this year which I doubt because the start to baseball here is very slow!
As we are going over the list, I thought it would be interesting to list the Common Data Sets of all colleges for Native American enrollment to get a feel for what kind of supports he can expect to have while on campus should he get in: () is the enrollment for admissions cycle that year. Need to think about those with no NAs at all. It could get pretty lonely!
Cornell = 35 total NA pop with 28 enrolled (2019-2020)
Princeton = 10 Total NA Pop with 4 enrolled (2019-2020)
Brown =24 Total NA Pop with 3 enrolled (2020-21)
CalTech =0 period
Dartmouth = 56 Total NA with 17 enrolled (20-21)
Harvard = 16 Total NA with 4 enrolled (19-20)
Yale = 13 Total NA pop with 3 enrolled (2021)
UCLA = 70 Total NA pop with 17 Enrolled(19-20)
Duke = 41 Total pop with 12 enrolled (20-21)
Stanford = 62 Total NA pop with 12 enrolled (19-20)
Wash U = 3 Total NA pop with 0 enrolled (20-21)
Notre Dame = 24 Total NA pop with 8 enrolled (20-21)
Northeastern = 7 Total NA Pop with 3 enrolled (20-21)
Vanderbilt = 31 Total NA pop with 6 enrolled (19-20)
Dickinson = 2 Total NA pop with 0 enrolled (20-21)
Bowdoin = 6 Total NA pop with 2 enrolled (20-21)
Northwestern = 6 Total NA pop with 2 enrolled (19-20)
Emory = 4 Total NA with 0 enrolled (19-20)
Case Western Reserve = 8 Total NA with 5 enrolled (18-19)
NYU = 45 Total NA with 14 enrolled (19-20)
UPenn = 11 Total NA pop with 3 enrolled (19-20)
UNC Chapel Hill = 77 Total NA pop with 14 enrolled (19-20)
MIT = 6 Total NA pop with 2 enrolled (18-19)
University of Southern California = 22 Total NA pop with 1 enrolled (19-20)
Cal Poly SLO = 27 Total NA pop with 2 enrolled (20-21)
UC Berkeley = 25 Total NA pop with 2 enrolled (20-21)
UC San Diego = 119 Total NA pop with 26 enrolled (19-20)
UMich = 37 Total NA pop with 13 enrolled (20-21)
UC Santa Cruz = 16 Total NA with 4 enrolled (20-21)
UC Irvine = 21 Total NA pop with 3 enrolled (20-21)
TCU = 41 Total NA pop with 4 enrolled (20-21)
Denison = less than 1%
Swarthmore = 6 Total NA pop with 2 enrolled (19-20)
Lafayette = 0 Period
Middlebury = 2 Total NA pop with 0 enrolled (20-21)
Johns Hopkins = 6 Total NA pop with 1 enrolled (2015-16)
Amherst College = 10 Total NA pop with 0 enrolled (2021)
Davidson = 4 Total Native American pop with 0 enrolled (20-21)
Kenyon College = 0 period
Wondering if it would be best to target those with NA recruitment to maximize results?
I don’t think you are pulling the right data. Section B2 on the CDS shows total undergraduate enrollment by race: So Dartmouth has 56 enrolled “American Indian or Alaska Native, non-Hispanic” students, of which 14 are freshman. Davidson has 4 enrolled “American Indian or Alaska Native, non-Hispanic” undergrads, of which zero are frosh.
Regardless, it does make sense to look at schools that have other Native American students, if that is important to your son. You should speak with each school to make sure they have the type of ‘supports’ you are seeking.
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Some of the statistics on race only include domestic students. Daughter went to a tech school with many international students. There were many more Asian faces on campus than the stats reflected. I asked her if she interacted with the foreign students and she said she didn’t because of the language barrier.
I’m not sure if the figures you are pulling reflect the true numbers or if they are just the statistics pulled for the dept of education reports. Some schools closer to Canada may have more NA who aren’t included in the domestic stats.