<p>Colleges grant more credit for AP because AP is our national program. Therefore they will be a bit preferential in awarding credit. Similarly, in the UK IB is accepted, but A-levels are preferable, because that's their national program... the thing about the IB is that it is international, and that it is very difficult to argue that it is inferior in academic rigor..even if it is always "second-place" for college recognition in most countries.</p>
<p>The consensus here is that IB is more analysis based and AP is more fact based; IB places emphasis on essay, AP on MC, IB is more well rounded, AP flexible, okay, okay, okay. </p>
<p>What I find interesting is that when most people state an example for when AP's flexibility is useful, they usually use a math/science student. This student would not be sufficiently challenged by the IB math courses (I've heard that IB Further Math is really hard, but few schools offer it so I guess it's negligible) and would therefore do much better with AP. I've never seen a humanities student mentioned as an example. Also, someone mentioned that AP is more focused on math/science and has more math/science options. Whereas IB's extras such as EE seem to be focused on writing (well, okay, this is more of a 'sort of...' statement)</p>
<p>Can we also add that AP is better for math/science students and IB for humanities-focused students? Would the flexibility of the AP help the latter type find more rigorous courses?</p>
<p>Keshira, from what I've heard that in the UK the IB has a very high standing. I do not think it is true that the program always is 'second-best' for college recognition! </p>
<p>I also don't agree that AP is better for math/science. Here it also depends on what kind of math/science someone wants. I don't know much about math, so I'll focus on science. As you say, the IB is very analysis-based. This applies to the sciences as well- we are taught not just to know 'what' things are and 'what' happens, but 'why', and so on. Many exam questions require you to use your knowlege of scientific reasoning. As for the EE's being focued on writing, this can be good for science students as well. In addition to having to do a piece of research for the EE, they then have to learn how write about it. Writing is integral to science- how would reasearch otherwise be shared?</p>
<p>Wow, why is nobody giving the accurate and precise information on either IB or AP??? People are getting alot of MISCONCEPTIONS and incorrect CONCLUSIONS about both AP and IB.</p>
<p>Since I was an IB student, I'll give the info on IB that I know.</p>
<p>IB consists of six subject CATEGORIES. Language A1, Language A2 or Language B (ab initio), Individuals and Societies, Experimental Sciences, Mathematics, and Arts & Electives. Exteneded Essay, Creativity-Action-Service, and Theory of Knowledge are add-ons that can be fulfilled depending on the circumstances. All these subject areas can be changed by your school, with approval from the IBO. For example, Arts and Electives can be REPLACED with a second science, Language A2/B can be replaced with something like Economics SL. An IB Diploma student (please dont call them full IB or full diploma, it's technically incorrect) will take six core subjects, along with the EE, TOK, and 150 hours of CAS.
The Extended Essay is a MAXIMUM 4000 word research paper, which is conducted in ANY subject area that you choose, but this may change depending on your school.
The quality of the IB program will vary with school and country, as will ANY program or system of education.
External Assessments are portfolios of the student's teacher-assessed work that is sent to the IB headquarters every year. They are then assessed by IB graders who make sure the teachers at your school are not marking you too hard or too soft. These graders will then send back your work, with the mark which IB deems accurate.
Here's a fact for the IB program in the US. Ok, dont go "this post is wrong, biased, and the author of this post doesn't know what the hell he's talking about" after reading this FACT. I know what some of you are feeling like right now, and what you'll feel after reading this post, of course, some of you may be nullified by the above statement, whatever. Shut up. OK, on >>>AVERAGE<<<, External Assessments from the US recieve a mark 15% lower than what teachers give to their students. That says something about the IB program in the US; IT SAYS that the IB program still has room for development in the US - the dominance of the College Board's AP program is ONE factor that contributes to the need for development of the IB program in the US.
Think about the above post before you come to a final interpretation of the statement; many people pass judgement much too quickly without giving the issue an objective analysis.</p>
<p>Anyways, due to the need for development of the IB program in the US, the varying conditions and qualitiy of education at every school, and the different interpretations that every single damn student has of the IB and AP programs, it is impossible to determine whether or not taking IB or AP would be more advantageous in YOUR SITUATION. In fact, going online and considering the opinions of others is a awful way to garner more perspective on your decision/opinion. Written opinions here are usually not carefully or objectively made on forums, blogs, and the Internet in general; furthermore, these posts are usually interpreted 604936 different ways by 10 different people. </p>
<p>My point is, this is a bad place to get information from, and unless your screwing around with your time, like me at the moment, you really should stop reading and find a more reliable source. A person or educator experienced with both the AP and IB programs, perferably.</p>
<p>PS. Stop getting opinion from the Internet, its not good for you or higher society. I'm including my own post, of course.</p>
<p>I have 4 IB classes. Not going full diploma though, would not going full diploma affect my chances? message me</p>
<p>Oh god, not this thread again.</p>
<p>Jman, the reason that IB 7's are weighted the same as AP 5's for college credit IN THE UNITED STATES is because the AP is an AMERICAN SYSTEM. Naturally, it is given more weight. You will find that in Europe and other foreign countries you can get much more college credit for IB than AP, and a higher IB score is weighted much more in prestige, etc than high AP scores. That also does not necessarily say anything.</p>
<p>Do you really think these vast and diverse groups of students would average out to be so different, that AP students would be better prepared? For one, did you know that the average graduation rate in America for IB is much lower than internationally, by I believe around 30%? By your type of logic the AMERICAN students seem to be the least prepared - they are the WORST of the IB students - and it is, after all, American students who are taking AP.</p>
<p>All in all the fact that colleges weight IB 7's the same as AP 5's just shows that the IB has not penetrated as much into the American consciousness. At my school, IB students who have 6's and 7's in a particular subject routinely take the AP examinations as well and receive 5's. The IB students who have scored 5's tend to score 4's on the AP examinations, and the IB students who have scored 4's tend to score 3's on their AP examinations (4 and 3 are the respective passing grades.) And to keep in mind that these students have been trained in the IB curricula and system, not the AP- yet they do very well in the AP examination system.</p>
<p>Perhaps in your district the AP classes really are more rigorous than the IB classes. I give you that. But to use that as a basis for saying that AP classes in GENERAL are more difficult, and that AP students in general are more prepared- is frankly misinterpretation. You are using the UNITED STATES college credit policies as a seemingly objective determinant of what IB and AP scores are worth respectively, when AP is a primarily American system and IB is an international one? Am I the only one who sees something wrong here?</p>
<p>Yes, it is true that the AP system is much more flexible. But there is also a value in the cohesiveness and unity in a full IB Diploma Programme, in which classes are taken for 2 consecutive years- the HL classes will often go much further than their AP counterparts, if you choose to do an HL in a subject. AP has its advantages, but you can't state that it is definitively <em>better,</em> only if it is the best choice for yourself and your needs.</p>
<p>I concur with fizix:</p>
<p>Oh god, not this thread again.</p>
<p>lawl, dont you just love using CAPS.</p>
<p>Hmm, I dont know about American students being the worst IB students.
By the way, I should calrify something, IB is not only a highschool program, theres the Middle Years Programme and the Primary Years Programme as well. Of course, most schools on use the highschool one, aka Diploma Programme. The general IB program is used everywhere, from multi-million dollar endowned prep schools to one room schoolhouses in africa.</p>
<p>Also, AP and IB curricula are very different, and themselves vary hugely from school to school. And yes, on AVERAGE, IB students SHOULD be able to perform quite well on AP examinations, but AP students would probably have more of a difficult time, on AVERAGE, on IB examinations. One should expect this though; IB, in theory, is covering all the essential concepts from many, many different educational systems throughout the world, including America's, while the American AP program covers, well, expected American educational essentials! Not the stuff other people need to know in other countries.</p>
<p>"""You are using the UNITED STATES college credit policies as a seemingly objective determinant of what IB and AP scores are worth respectively, when AP is a primarily American system and IB is an international one? Am I the only one who sees something wrong here?"""</p>
<p>Well, thats what they're worth in the US, thats why he uses US college credit policies. Don't take that in the wrong way, what I'm saying is, your thinking about something else using some other method. Lol. The problem with IB in the US is that it's underdeveloped. Thats whats "wrong". So does that mean US colleges are smart to weight IB and AP equally, because IB is developed to the same point as the AP program? I don't know, go ask the colleges =p</p>
<p>And no, the AP program is not much more flexible. Flexibility comes and goes with every different school. For instance, not all AP courses are offered at certain schools that provide AP, and not all IB courses are offered at certain schools that provide IB. Like the highschool I use to go to, they didn't have Economics IB SL =p, too bad, I might've taken it instead of stupid Biology IB SL. =p</p>
<p>Also, with the thing about average american External Assessments being 15% lower, it was specifically Biology IB SL External Assessments that were 15% lower in the US.</p>
<p>Wow that post was made like the true World History IB HL student I was, took the stance of every side of each issue =p
Hipocracy or enlightened thinking?</p>
<p>I've taken a lot of IB and AP classes .. many of my classes are an IB class & an AP class merged into one..</p>
<p>I think the IB program to get the Full Diploma is much much much more rigorous and demanding than just taking AP classes. As far as just the classes by themselves.. I wouldn't say IB is necessarily HARDER.. just different..</p>
<p>But overall I think the IB program is a lot more difficult than being in AP classes.. </p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>I have a friend in IB at one school, and at my school I was in honors my first 2 years, then AP my second two (at my school you can't take AP until you are a junior)</p>
<p>Right now, her IB english books are the same books we read when we were in 9th grade. Average ACT scores for her IB program, and my AP programs are the same. </p>
<p>I don't think either one is better or worse, it all depends on the person really. One thing I do notice, if a school offers IB (mine does not), their AP programs are not as good as other schools. My school's AP program is great, much better than her school's. And our AP kids are on par with their IB kids.</p>
<p>If this is also a trend in other U.S. school's, I'd say take IB IF your school offers it, because likely most (not all) of the best qualified teachers will be teaching IB. However, I wouldn't change schools just for IB (as long as it is in a good district) because the IB program doesn't give you any special benefits in the United States.</p>
<p>I've asked admissions officers from selective, and not selective schools, and they all say that they do not think IB is "better" than AP. They look at the student him/herself, their test scores, their grades etc.</p>
<p>Lol, I love these arguments. No matter what you say, people already have their minds' made up. It's like Mac versus PC . . . </p>
<p>The IB program (yeah, I don't really like "programme") is focused on making students well-rounded. AP doesn't really have a program, so the comparison doesn't really apply. AP tests and IB tests are similar, but one is out of a possible five and one is out of a possible seven. Of the IB tests I've taken, there have been no multiple choice (I took IB art & Design, and I think it just consisted of a 200-page research book, original pieces, and an interview, so there wouldn't be any multiple choice. I don't know about AP art classes, so I'll just keep my mouth shut about one being better. I only got a 5 SL, though, so . . .) </p>
<p>My good experience, though, was with IB Standard Level Spanish and AP Spanish. AP Spanish test was waaaaay harder than IB standard level, bar none. I have friends that got 6s in IB, but 2s in AP. I got a 7 and a 5, but as far as taking everything in one sitting, AP was harder. IB test consisted of two recorded orals (done months before the "paper" part of the test), a prepared essay, and the paper part of the test, which included recall questions and a couple essays. Because we got to prepare the orals and essay, the IB test was easier in that regard. The AP test was harder in that regard. We didn't have a separate Spanish class for AP and IB either, so we all did equally well on the IB test (most of us anyway), and most of the class did really poorly on the AP test. There's proof against IB, I guess.</p>
<p>SL tests, to me, are jokes. That's why colleges like Stanford, Duke, and I'm pretty sure HPY only give credit for HL tests. But only for 5s, 6s, and 7s.</p>
<p>Schools offering AP in my area weren't even coming close to the IB schools.
I came from a schol offering AP, and moved to a school with IB classes and optional AP exams at the end of the year.</p>
<p>Of course, taking the Diploma Program + Chinese School + Symphonic Band + other random stuff was not enjoyable =p
I think i slept at 1:30am - 2:00 on average every night, of course I usually slept at 1am every night before that so it wasnt that big of a deal i guess.
Anyways, we had a guy with a doctorate in zoology teaching us Bio SL, always called him Dr.(bob); 20 - 30 page lab reports were standard, im guessing these were given every two or three weeks? We had CONSTANT streams of short lab analysis/observations, diagrams, scientific drawings, quizzes, models, you name it. And the scientific drawings, damn, if you had a small break in a line where there were none (lie mabye a 1mm space), thatd be one mark off, if it looked too "sketchy", maybe a couple marks off, and if your caption wasn't descriptive enough, more marks off. =p One time, we had to do a 300 page lab report, based on the ecology of a hill close to our school. We had to make copies of that lab report, and placed them in massive portfolios along with all of our other work, and sent them off to the IB headquarters in Switzerland or some other place. =p All of this was basically a years worth of work, and the portfolio spanned across a couple binders. This was just one IB class! Of course, it was the one with the most homework. =p Other than Biology SL, I took Chemistry HL, World History HL, Mandarin SL, Mathematics SL, English HL and had TOK and the Extended Essay research paper, cause I was in the full Diploma program =p I took a normal physics course during the summer, cause I couldnt fit that into my timetable, and my parents insisted that I take all three sciences. Highschool was a sad, sad life...</p>
<p>So theres an example of what IB was like in my area. I'd definately like to know what anybody elses IB was like in a different area... or AP.</p>
<p>jman, the fact that you can start with APs in the ninth grade just means you have more time to the finish what you started. IB subjects require MORE critical thinking. The goal of the people who come up with questions for IB exams is to trick you and sadly, but truly, this often works. AP exams, however, are straightforward. I have taken the AP physics B exam and very honestly it is EASIER than IB physics standard LEVEL. I got a 5 in my AP exam but a 6 in my standard level exam. (I actually studied less for the AP). I do higher now. That is no walk in the park either.
I could not agree more that AP is more flexible. Not to say that you do not have a wide range of subjects in the IB but the thing is with the IB you need combinations of subjects i.e. you need something that falls under the mathematics group, something that falls under the social science group, and so on. These groups are stipulated by the IB. The CAS(Creativity Action Service) requirement is the wrongest way to judge the IB since it takes almost no time to fulfill the requirements. For those of you that are not aware , you need FIFTY points for each category. The IB makes you do lots of extra stuff : nearly 20 labs for physics(where you have to figure out a factor and method for execution that is plausible), three portfolios for math HL you have to figure out what the hell the question is asking (these are, by the way, incredibly difficult to do), an extended essay which is a 4000 word research essay (even coming up with the topic is incredibly difficult), two 1500 word world literature essays for english higher and one for english standard, a 1500 word theory of knowledge(ToK) essay, four or five case studies in economics each of which should approach a thousand words, a ToK presentation, two english presentations. There is stuff like this in pretty much every subject. For the ones above, you have to figure out the topic for every single one of those except for the ToK essay in which you are given a list of topics to choose from. More writing doesn't necessarily make the concepts harder to understand but it is much harder work. The tricky questions don't make it any better.
You've basically judged difficulty based on the amount of writing involved in the exams. IB questions are far tougher and only two exams that I can think of/do have lots of essay writing (economics and english). If you don't believe me, try and download a few sample papers. Above all, the people who grade IB exams are incredibly strict. Being a gifted writer has nothing to do with how well you do the exams unless it's the English exam. This is because people from obscure corners of the world take IB exams. For exams like physics, there are multiple choice questions which are also INCREDIBLY tough apart from the few(2-3) which a sophomore could do. This is like 30 points out of 70. The rest is just extended answer questions which you have to think even more for. But for this part, lots of studying shouldn't make it TOO bad.
In economics, the questions are extremely vague. However, you need to include every little detail and definition when you are writing your answer.
Oh, and last but not least, I get around five hours of sleep every night. Sometimes, I don't even sleep. If I do, I curse the IB program in my sleep.</p>
<p>Why the HELL was this thread brought up AGAIN??? Personally, I hate this thread because it causes so much drama. I thought we all agreed that it really doesn't matter since AP and IB both look amazing and most posts on this thread are repeating the exact same thing. Also, Jman hasn't been logged on since August....</p>
<p>All the IB schools I know have you take AP's as sophmores (1-3) and then you do IB. Which is basically 12 AP's...the classes are two years long. IB is just more annoying, so many hoops and random regulations.</p>
<p>Haha, I just love how people love defending AP or IB. The bottom line is, you can't go wrong with either one. It's a matter of preference and availability. AP is vastly more popular in the US, and IB in overseas. Either way, most universities accept credit for both of them and recognize they are rigorous.*</p>
<p>*I'm an IB Diploma candidate and I'm mad the most colleges think that a 7 on an IB test is the same as a 5 on AP. I can tell you for a fact the IB is slightly harder than AP.</p>
<p>This thread is awesome because both sides are so pretentious. Both AP and IB are hard, and both prepare you well for college. IB, if anything, just prepares you more for the ridiculous requirements and red-tape-bounded hoops that colleges have you leap through: there's probably very little academic difference, just that IB forces you to be more dilligent, not more intelligent.</p>
<p>*I'm an AP student, and I'm glad that I don't have to jump through every kind of administrative hoop just so that I knock out my non-major requirements in college.</p>
<p>
[quote]
IB, if anything, just prepares you more for the ridiculous requirements
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How is IB more ridiculous? It is just a more integrated program than AP. Last time I checked, the only requirements for AP is to pass one test. For every IB course, you are required to do internal assessments, orals, TOK, CAS, and the Extended Essay in addition to your subject test. AP might be more flexible since you can choose which subject you want, but it does not really reflect what you do it the real world. IB forces you to take subjects you are not comfortable with. For example I loath English from the bottom of my heart, but since I'm planning to be full IB, I still need to take it. I especially dislike speaking in front of people, especially when you are graded on how well you do it. In that way, I am actually overcoming my weaknesses through the IB program. That is just one example on how IB prepares you for college better than AP.</p>
<p>The "ridiculous requirements" I was referring to are the liberal arts requirements that most schools ask of their students: for example, requiring students to take Literature classes when they don't want to. Can you blame me for finding it absurd that people actually go through a program which forces you to take college-level classes you don't want to so that you don't have to take those same classes in college? Doesn't that completely defeat the purpose? Personally, I don't want to take Calculus in college, so I'm taking the AP class to do it now so that I can have more room to take German courses in college.</p>
<p>(Philosophically, I also disagree with forcing people to have leadership and do community service... It should come from your heart, not from the doctrine of a bunch of Swiss administrators, but that's for another thread.)</p>