IB vs. AP

<p>This is an actual question I asked yesterday to an MIT admissions officer:</p>

<p>Between AP and IB, which program receives more respect from the MIT admissions. Would it be bad if I chose to take 6 AP classes each year as a junior/senior rather than participate in IB diploma (or vice versa)?
MattMcGannMIT: AP and IB are both good. ** I don’t have a preference<a href=“and%20msot%20students%20don’t%20have%20a%20choice”>/B</a>.</p>

<p>Also, In my opinion, while in general more kids that consider themselves high achievers (or whatever) take IB, BUT I think that these kids have less time to do things which actually affect admissions, such as participation in an EC that they have a passion for. Neither are very difficult or “prestigious” either way; I don’t understand why kids try to show there elite intelligence by bragging about their courses.</p>

<p>But this is all just an opinion of course.</p>

<p>As an IB student, my opinion may inevitably be skewed towards the program. But in my experience, IB is far more comprehensive than AP in the skill set that it emphasizes. While both programs offer “advanced curricula,” IB is all about the ability to analyze, interpret, and synthesize information to create a solid argument. To my knowledge, no other recognized program in the U.S. places as much importance on this skill set. We are required to regularly analyse information in complete depth, and IB is not merely difficult due to exams and in-class material. By in-depth, I mean analyzing every sentence in a passage of literature, pointing out key words, author’s technique, and the relevance of this to the plot, themes, motifs, and characterization exhibited in the passage. That’s just one example.</p>

<p>In order to earn the Diploma, we are required to complete several assessments that are graded internally (by the teacher) and externally (by the IB board overseas) in addition to taking six courses and six exams. These assessments involve individual research projects, labs, presentations; and of course there is the extended essay that must be turned in by senior year. The nightly homework load is quite considerable to the point that I just laugh at people whining and complaining about the one essay they have due in a week. In the end, IB probably teaches a more valuable skill set than AP just due to the sheer amount of emphasis placed on coherent arguments, essays, and in-depth analyses. I don’t really understand all you people claiming that IB math courses are a joke compared to AP. The HL course is hell. </p>

<p>As far as not having enough time for extra curricular activities, that is a complete lie. IB also requires something called CAS (Creativity, Action, Service) which focuses on development outside of class. You have to have done fifty hours relating to each category and gathered evidence for it all. This all includes community service, pursuit of musical/artistic/literary talent, and athletics. Each activity must also have some sort of aim or goal to work towards overall improvement. And in my state (I’m not certain of the policy in others) having an IB Diploma gets you into a university as a sophomore. So money is saved on one year of college.</p>

<p>^ Great explanation :)</p>

<p>As somebody who’s been in a school with a competitive integrated AP/IB program (we were ranked third this year), this is what I’ve experienced from it.</p>

<p>To whomever said that Math Studies SL and Math SL are a joke, that is true. There’s no getting around the fact that the math standard level examination is weak. The higher level is somewhat of a different story; Paper 3 (which for us is required to be Ordinary Differential Equations, Sequences, and Series) is notoriously difficult and covers the tail end of Calculus BC (in fact, there was a problem on last year’s IB HL Paper 3 that was a Bernoulli’s Equation problem, which is most definitely not on the BC curriculum). In addition, IB HL also covers elementary statistics, for which it has a slight advantage over BC. Let’s be honest, though- somebody who is competent enough to take Calculus BC generally ends up taking AP Statistics somewhere along the road. HL is two years, BC plus Stats is also two years, with the AP math sequence covering slightly more.</p>

<p>My sixth subject is chemistry and my Group 4 class is physics. There is one enormously important difference between the AP and IB here. The IB equation sheet gives you a LOT more information than the AP equation sheet for either science. Granted, IB Chemistry Higher Level, which I am set to take, demands more knowledge than does the AP curriculum. In what I would call the “memorization sciences” (I’ve heard that IB Biology HL deals with the same issue), the IB does very well because it is a two year program and can assign more homework and information to memorize. But for a quantitative and math-intensive science like physics, I would say that AP has the advantage. In IB Physics HL, which I will also be taking, we get basic Newtonian mechanics, EM, optics, and a choice of two options. That is roughly the equivalent of the AP Physics B. AP Physics C is altogether a much different story- C: Mechanics requires calculus based work and C: EM requires knowledge of “basic” EM equations in calculus- which necessitates knowledge of partial derivatives, integration, and advanced integration techniques in a single variable. AP has a big advantage over IB in physics, IB a modest advantage over AP in chemistry and biology. </p>

<p>For English A1, yes, IB is much more difficult, if only because we have additional papers on the side and an oral. In the foreign languages, from what I’ve experienced and heard from my friends (I took French SL), AP is much, much more difficult than the SL and quite a bit more difficult than the HL because it was really only one more paper. In fact, I’m finding myself longing for the good old days of French SL, because AP French Language requires quite a bit more specialized knowledge than the IB in terms of knowing diction and structure. </p>

<p>And finally, for about the history issue- what is so hard about IB history? Perhaps I’m saying this because I’ve taken AP World, AP Euro, and AP US History, but IB Contemporary History should be a relaxed review for you. Maybe I’m being overly harsh because I’ve thought that all my histories have been quite easy, but there’s no reason to fret over IB History whatsoever. The coverage between AP and IB is roughly the same, but I would argue that the AP sequence is a little tougher because of its wider breadth and nearly equivalent, if not equivalent, depth. </p>

<p>I will say that I really appreciated TOK I and II, not just because it was an easy A, but because of the opportunity to tie together different avenues of learning, culminating in the EE. For example, my extended essay was whether or not the New Deal was Keynesian (a relatively vanilla topic) and to attack my topic, I engaged in mathematical modeling of the 1933-1945 era (and looked at models created by economists), read historical sources, used literary analysis to compare them, and to top it all off, found a good French source that I had to translate and then utilize in my paper. The opportunity to engage in interdisciplinary thinking is a strong point of the IB program and is the hallmark of European education- it is necessary in the 21st century. I will say, however, the 150 hours of CAS plus the 25 hours necessitated to enter the IB program from pre-IB is not much to brag about. 175 hours is hardly enough to achieve any kind of competency in one area, let alone three areas. That should be automatic for any high school student wishing to go on and make a name for him or herself. </p>

<p>It seems like I’m giving a slight edge to the AP program, but in reality, I think that both are equal. To be honest, it all depends on the people who run the program- a good IB program definitely outclasses a bad AP program and vice versa. In an ideal world, we get both (like I do), but if I had to choose one, I might choose the AP program and request that my teachers actively engage in interdisciplinary thinking and writing-intensive exercises.</p>

<p>Just my two cents on the issue. :)</p>

<p>I disagree with Jojo.</p>

<p>Now, I have very little idea of how IB works-- my school only offers AP. However, I can offer our Chemistry classes as a relevant comparison. My school is pretty good in the U.S.-- ranked in the top 30 by USNWR for the past few years so I guess the academics are at least above average. ISM is supposed to be really amazing or something.</p>

<p>He insists that IB is much harder than AP. However, when we were chatting awhile ago, he brought up hybrid orbitals which was a top that we had covered at least three months previously. I mentioned that, and he argued that classes could cover material in different orders, and that he was probably going in more detail. So we quizzed each other a bit, and I kinda beat the crap out of him.</p>

<p>Personally, I hate chemistry. It’s memorizing a bajillion little things to apply to a million specific situations.</p>

<p>I am considering doing IB but keep hearing you cannot carry on with any extra-curricular activities because of the work load. Is that true? I play soccer.</p>

<p>fifafan, you certainly can participate in soccer and complete the IB Diploma. S is a senior and has played for an MLS Development Academy team for three years and is a state musician. It’s not easy, but if you love learning and feel driven to do your best, you will get through the IB program and will feel greatly rewarded. My S’s IB group developed a strong sense of community and they support each other and their school.</p>

<p>People just say that IB is harder because they have it in Europe. It’s not- as an example, in my AP U.S. History class we have to hand-write outlines of 30+ page textbook chapters (Alan Brinkley’s American History- if you know it, you are familiar with the infinitesimal amount of pictures, so it’s mostly straight text). We have to write 5 paragraph in class essays every other week (you don’t pass the test if you have short paragraphs- at least 10 substantial sentences per paragraph) and we’re given 30 minutes to do it, and it’s damn near impossible to get an A on them, because you literally have to include everything about the topic. And I’ll finish it off with an anecdote- we were supposed to have a 40 page packet (no pictures) to read over a week-long vacation, but our teacher forgot to give it to us- so she made us read the entire thing in one night and write an in class essay the next day. Absolute ******** if you say IB is always harder. And don’t even get me started on AP Physics C or Calculus BC.</p>

<p>Two more things-

  1. AP students have less than half the time to learn all the material IB students learn</p>

<ol>
<li>I just looked at an IB history exam- it appears that you can basically shop through 30 choices of essay topics and pick 2, and you have an hour and a half to do it. On the AP U.S. history exam, they give you the exact essay question- no choosing. There is a document based question essay (35 minutes) and a thematic essay (35 minutes). You can get a 70% on the test and get a 5 (perfect score) but that doesn’t mean that it’s lenient grading- that means it’s ridiculously hard to get 70% on the exam.</li>
</ol>

<p>IB Math HL > AP Calc BC hands down. The problems are more in depth and way more mind boggling especially in math/physics. On the other hand, I believe history is much easier than APUSH and world, though history is not hard at all a subject to even complain about.</p>

<p>It’s funny to see people think that these IB courses are easier than AP.</p>

<p>My observations:
French HL test is much harder than the AP test. I am in the IB French HL class combined with AP. (It’s not hard, but I know the AP students would have a much harder time with our test. Not to metion the 10 minute oral…) However, French SL is really easy. This may be just for me though because I’m in my sixth year of French. </p>

<p>Math HL is much more advanced than BC Calc… hands down. </p>

<p>Physics HL… ha. We were advised NOT to do it because the scores are very low, but I’m still in it. A student from last year that goes to MIT didn’t receive a seven on his physics IB exam. (He took it after Calculus 3) He has an A in physics at MIT. </p>

<p>I don’t know about History or English. Never took AP English or Hist. </p>

<p>These are not fair comparisons because the programs are very different.
In my experience, the IB classes I have taken have been far more challenging than the AP classes. They have also been very different from each other. I think that if you take all AP classes you’ll be fine, but if you decide to be an IB diplomma candidate it also looks good. I read a book written by a Duke admissions officer and she said that the score given to the applicant for academic rigour was automatically the highest on the scale for IB diplomma candidates. (Of course this can also be achieved by taking all APs.)</p>

<p>dude ib hl amth totally rapes ap calc. End of story</p>

<p>

It appears that IB English is rather wanting, though.</p>

<p>IB math is a joke? are u on drugs? Even ib sl math is quite hard and then IB hl math is A LOT more harder than AP math.</p>

<p>lol yeah right only cause i wrote “amth” grow up fool</p>

<p>Really no difference whatsoever. Read each top school’s opinion: No difference.</p>

<p>I have to say that IB is more challenging, at least in terms of Math and English.</p>

<p>I chose not to do the Full IB Diploma, but have elected to take 5 Higher Level Classes: English A1, Economics, Biology, Chemistry, and Physics. I finished Maths HL last year with 7/7.</p>

<p>Right now, besides a college-level math class, I’m also enrolled in AP Calculus BC and it’s remarkably ‘easier’ (much less breadth with equivalent depth). But in the case of AP Chemistry, which I did last year, the syllabi were almost identical except for the Options in IB (our school chose ‘Drugs and Medicine’ and ‘Human Biochemistry’), which are not done in AP. From what I’ve heard from other classmates (my school offers both AP courses and the entire IB program), IB English is also much harder. There are the Oral Presentations (Internal Assessment) and World Literature Papers (External Assessment).</p>

<p>To complicate things, every science subject has Internal Assessments (Lab Reports), which are very painful to do if you take 3 science classes (which I could do because I’m a certificate student). There are also 2 internal assessment portfolios for math, and 4 commentaries for Economics (on Microeconomics, Macroeconomics, International economics, and Development, respectively).</p>

<p>For full IB students, there’s more pain: CAS Binders, the Extended Essay, and the TOK Essay are all requirements to get an IB diploma. None of these extraneous assignments are given for AP.</p>

<p>Oh, and the posts on the previous page by VagrantRhapsody kind of sum it up :D</p>

<p>

How about now?</p>

<p>I’m in IB and still taking AP tests. However, an AP student cannot possibly take IB tests. </p>

<p>Also. I hate IB. Because you HAVE to understand the concept.
I am indifferent towards AP. It only requires some time (which people, including myself, don’t have. I understand) & some intense cramming. No IA, CAS, EA, EE, TOK or any other stupid abbreviated requirements from the program.</p>