<p>Tokenadult:
I also have a "highly able student" in my house, so I did make some inquiries into an IB program offered by one of the HS. I think that the key information here would be the fact, that this HS has been offering IB Dipoma for close to 20 years now.
We met with the GC. I had a lot of reservations here, since I have always considered IB to be a a very self contained program with little room for individual preferences. Turns out it ain't so.
Kids take both AP and IB classes , and my freshman, after completing AP Calc BC wil be able to take university courses until 12 grade, when he will have to take Further Math. School actually makes all the arrangements with U and tries to make schedules workable. Kids are responsible for their own transport.</p>
<p>Hi, Kelowna, I remember your post on the Parents Forum asking about the local IB program you know. Yes, if a particular high school's IB program includes flexibility for advanced learners, then that should be a fine opportunity for getting a good high school education. I still wish, as a homeschooling parent, that the IB organization would unbundle its tests from its school-based courses, in the same way that anyone can take an AP test, because it would be good for self-studiers to have the opportunity to demonstrate their learning.</p>
<p>Hey, goddessxx, don't be too hard on Dr. Damji... he's a great chem teacher in real life. ;) (Taught at my school until 2 years ago) I'm talking one of the best teachers I've ever seen. Not that I disagree with you about his textbook though... while it's entertaining to watch him ramble in real life (and often quite informative)... not so in textbook format.</p>
<p>AP is better if you want college credit.</p>
<p>IB goes more into the 'why' and 'reasons' in class. the full IB diploma requires a significant amount more work than just taking, say, 6 AP classes because the diploma has extra things with it.
for example, IB diploma includes you do the following:
-obtain 150 CAS hours (creativity, action, service)
-write an extended essay (3500 word essay on a topic of your choice that relates to one of the core topics of the IB)
-take theory of knowledge 1 in 11th grade and theory of knowledge 2 in 12th grade, each 1-semester long classes
-must take 3 Higher Level IB exams, meaning 2-year long courses. IB English and IB History are required, and a 3rd is necessary. people usually do HL Math (if you take Calculus in 11th grade) or a language (i am taking HL French, because I am now at level 6.. but you can take HL if you are at level 7 or above as well)
-must take 4 Standard Level IB exams, meaning 1-year long courses. These include psychology, environmental science, a language if you want to drop it senior year, math if you take precalc in 11th grade, etc..
-must take an IB exam in every IB class you take, unlike AP where the final AP exam is optional
-fees can be expensive.. its something like $340 for all your exams in the end
-you get swamped in work
-you don't have much freedom to take 'fun' classes because of all the requirements</p>
<p>but in the end, i think IB is worth it. if its available at your school, take it!</p>
<p>As someone who took BOTH APs and IBs, I would say its really hard to compare... so if your saying one is better than the other, you probably are defending the one your taking.. </p>
<p>Well..personally, If I do have to offer an opinion, AP can be considered as an actual college course, whereas IB is just a harder class. (maybe I was biased since the international school that I was in was terrible)</p>
<p>I would have to say IB is more challenging. I am in the IB Program right now and when you are in IB, you already have to take all AP Classes your junior year pretty much. Then you also have to do what IB expects you to do and those are a 4000 word Extended Essay, Theory of Knowledge paper and presentation, at least 150 CAS Hours..along with your subject papers and labs for science classes that you have to do and the papers on the subjects have to be about 1500 words which are not that bad but they must be very detailed and then two speeches for english which with one you only get to have 20 min. to prepare. Then you take your IB Exams at the end which are not MULTIPLE CHOICE QUESTIONS. They are all essays. So, IB definitely is more challenging in that you already take AP Classes PLUS you have to deal with all the IB stuff and exams at the end.</p>
<p>I did the full IB diploma along with a few AP classes. In my opinion, IB is definitely more time consuming and stressful than even a full load of AP classes. However, there are a few AP exams that are harder than their IB equivalents and vice versa. For example, I found the AP Spanish exam to be harder than the IB Spanish SL exam (I got a 3 on the AP exam and a 7 on the IB exam). However, I found IB History HL to be MUCH harder than AP European History (I got a 4 on the AP exam in 10th grade without doing anything all year and cramming the week before and a 5 on the IB exam after 2 years of hell). IB is more difficult because all of the things you must do in addition to taking a single comprehensive exam.</p>
<p>It also depends on the person. I am a strong writer (I got a 7 in IB English HL), but weak in math. So, I took IB Math Methods SL (not as easy as Math Studies but much easier than HL Math) and got a 4. It's not a great score, but it certainly did not stop me from recieving my IB diploma. People who are poor writers, however, struggle through the IB program because a great deal of writing is required in almost all IB classes. </p>
<p>Basically, if you're a strong writer/ well-rounded student choose IB. If you are strong in math and science, but are a poor writer IB will be very difficult for you.</p>
<p>Thanks, AmandaisaGator, that nuanced reply was worth reviving this old thread for. I think the OP is applying for colleges this year.</p>
<p>no problem ;)
Just one more comment in response to:</p>
<p>"So you see, it is entirely possible to in one course (HL Math), take everything available in the AP and much more. I think it's a little unfortunate that you dismissively relegated IB math (HL is the only one talked about here because the lower ones AREN'T at as high a level as the AP) to being not as good as AP math. It's more comprehensive, harder, and better. Deal."</p>
<p>At my school people in IB SL math (myself included) took AP Calc AB junior year (People in IB HL Math took AP Calc BC). I'm not a math person, but even I didn't find AP Calc AB to be very difficult. I got a 4 and feel that IB Math SL is comparable in difficulty (if not more difficult) to the level of math taught in AP Calc AB. I, personally struggled in IB math SL because of VECTORS <em>shudders</em> </p>
<p>o well...thanks to IB and AP I NEVER have to take math EVER again!!! :D</p>
<p>IB is far more rigorous than AP. AP is simply memorizing and regurgitating on paper.</p>
<p>
[quote]
IB is far more rigorous than AP. AP is simply memorizing and regurgitating on paper.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'd expect a better argument from someone who is getting a rigorous high school education.</p>
<p>^^^ eyliu doesn't have time...he or she is in IB. lol.</p>
<p>As long as you finish college in 4 years (rather than rush through it and finish in 3 like many former IB students do) and don't triple major, college is much easier than IB. I am currently taking sophomore level classes, am actively involved in MUN, the political science honor society, and a pre-law group, hang out and have fun with my friends almost every night, go out on weekends (except for Sundays...that's my homework day), and still have a 4.0. I have found that students who only took AP classes in high school freak out whenever they're assigned a paper over 10 pages. Former IB students, however, are accustomed to and comfortable with writing quality papers of said length in one sitting of a few hours. Moreover, former AP students (in my experience) struggle to write in an analytical fashion. This is probably because as eyliu wrote, "IB is far more rigorous than AP. AP is simply memorizing and regurgitating on paper. " If you wish to pursue a degree in the liberal arts, I feel that IB is superior to AP. hmmm...comparing poli sci paper scores between former AP and former IB diploma students might make an interesting research topic...If I choose to pursue it, I will definitely post the results!</p>
<p>However, as I said before, students who are strong only in maths and sciences are probably better off taking AP classes. The ideal curriculum for strong science/math students would probably be to take IB Further Mathematics, IB HL Chemistry, IB HL Physics, and/or IB HL Math in addition to AP classes. In some schools it is possible to get an IB certificate in students' strongest subjects without tackling the full IB curriculum neccessary for an IB diploma. IB further mathematics is the hardest math course offered in American high schools that I have heard of.</p>
<p>
[quote]
IB further mathematics is the hardest math course offered in American high schools that I have heard of.
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</p>
<p>There are certainly harder math courses for high school students in the United States at several magnet schools in various states. Of course, most math- and science-liking young people in the United States who are advanced learners do dual-enrollment programs, and quite a few of those finish the AP calculus sequence quite early. </p>
<p>
[quote=David Bressoud, president-elect of the Mathematical Association of America]
more and more students now take BC Calculus before their senior year. This number has grown from 8818 in 2002 to 13,809 in spring, 2006, an increase of 57% in just four years
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Tokenadult, could you provide us with examples of harder syllabuses than further math in IB, a subject so hard that it is only offered in standard level?</p>
<p>I was speaking of math courses in standard public high schools...and isn't DE generally considered to be easier than both IB and AP?...and all IB HL math students at my hs take BC calc junior year.</p>
<p>Any good linear algebra course is harder than further math in IB, and a lot of high school students take linear algebra, some as early as ninth grade. In general, anyone scoring well enough on the AIME</a> to get into the worldwide results book (that's a different cut-off score in different years) knows more math than the typical student who completes IB further math. We remember from the link that hsmomstef kindly shared that very few people worldwide even take the IB further math exam. IB fans interpret that to mean "IB further math is really hard," while I interpret that to mean "really strong math students look for opportunities to develop in math outside the rigid IB curriculum." </p>
<p>As I have noted earlier in this thread, the OP's concern included whether the IB or AP brand name would be more appealing to college admission officers. In my town, graduates of IB high schools get into Harvard, as do graduates of AP high schools. Some students in my town do most of their last two years of high school as dual-enrollment students at the state university, and some of them get into Harvard too. In my state, as in every state, the majority of applicants to Harvard do not get into Harvard (although they generally get into some fine college), so it is always wise to apply to a safety college, whatever the brand name of your high school.</p>
<p>Ignorance, allegations and generalizations..that's all I see...as I have mentioned before, tokenadult is adamant on this one, so any argument here is just time-consuming and pointless....there is no end to this...and i really dont think that this thread has anything to do with the OP at this point..</p>
<p>I have seen the content of an IB further math textbook (used in one of the high schools in my town, from which students are OCCASIONALLY admitted to elite colleges). Have any of you seen the content of an AIME test?</p>
<p>At my high school (large public high school in Florida), almost everyone in IB or AP applies to UF because tuition for public colleges in the state of Florida is FREE (as long as you get at least a 1300 on the SAT and have a decent GPA...which most UF students have anyway) and UF is academically, the best public school in the state.
At my hs, a large number (approximately 200?) of students in our class took a full load of APs and approximately 100 took IB (full diploma). Only 8 IB students at my school were rejected from UF (one ended up going to MIT, 2 to Georgia Tech, 2 to UCF, 1 to USF, and 2 to FSU). In the end, at least 45 IB students at my high school went to UF (some went to Harvard, William and Mary, UPenn, etc). However, only 4 AP students from my entire school were accepted (and now attend) UF...and one of them was wait-listed.
UF (at least) strongly favors IB students over AP students...they advertise on their website that they have more IB students than any other school in the world.</p>
<p>First of all, what you so ignorantly call "rigid" IB curriculum, you should know that does not require specific books. So it could very well be the school-especially if it's a new one, they tend to make huge blunders in terms of textbooks. IB does not require u to use a textbook-there's a syllabus, and options to choose from, and no restrictions.</p>
<p>i'd suggest you don't generalize like that-also, you're making the fallacious connection that because students are occasionally admitted to elite colleges in that school u mention, it's IB??? Cmon...seriously</p>
<p>P.S. These are books used by Higher Level....not nearly as demanding as further...
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Mathematics-1-L-Bostock/dp/0859500926/ref=sr_1_7/102-8844360-0160948?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192132827&sr=1-7%5B/url%5D">http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Mathematics-1-L-Bostock/dp/0859500926/ref=sr_1_7/102-8844360-0160948?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192132827&sr=1-7</a>
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Introducing-Pure-Mathematics-Smedley-Wiseman/dp/0199148031/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/102-8844360-0160948?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192132827&sr=1-3%5B/url%5D">http://www.amazon.com/Introducing-Pure-Mathematics-Smedley-Wiseman/dp/0199148031/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/102-8844360-0160948?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192132827&sr=1-3</a>
and bear in mind, these cover only but a fraction of IB HL math</p>