If You Don't Visit a School, Will It Hurt in Admission?

Parents Forum
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<p>My D will not be able to visit every school she is applying to. We had a surprising EA deferral from one school this year, for which she was overqualified, statistics wise; she was deferred despite visiting its Open House, etc. We were told she had not indicated enough interest in that school through emails, letters, etc., and it was not clear to them WHY she wanted to go there. They did not ask for a supplemental essay or interview, by the way. Although I've learned many other high-stat students were also deferred EA from this school...the whole unsettling thing makes me wonder about this "indicating interest" thing.</p>

<p>She has a few acceptances in already, and several pending regular decision. For some of these schools, we have not been able to visit. Just can't afford it, and timewise, couldn't do it. She's looked at the programs on the web sites and knows them by reputation, though. They vary from a few Ivies, which are stretches, to small and medium-size selective schools, the state flagship and a few others.</p>

<p>Do you think this will hurt her if she's not in constant contact with schools she's applied to, through letters, emails, calls? Honestly, there are several schools she is very interested in. It depends on how she does with merit aid, financial aid, etc., and what is meant to be, will be. She is valedictorian of her class, great EC, works part-time, high SATs, etc. </p>

<p>We thought she'd applied to a good mix of schools, but were spooked by this EA deferral from a school where she was slightly overqualified, but really did like. Do schools expect students to "beg" them for a spot, or is a good application enough?</p>

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<p>This is a good question! We don’t have the time or money to visit a specific school that is extremely competitive. I told her to email them and ask of she can do a Skype interview. She has applied to Kenyon and they flat out told us when she visited the first time last spring, with her living as close as we do to the school, they expect her to interview, stay overnight etc…</p>

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<p>It really depends on the individual school. Some care a lot, some not at all. If you go to the schools’ websites and search on ‘common data set’, it often lists what factors are considered in admissions. I have heard the Ivies do not care at all. Schools must know that everyone is not able to visit. I tried to have my D go when the college reps stop at our high school, but many schools do not visit.</p>

<p>If a school does list level of interest as important, you can still do a few things. Sign up on the web site for information (maybe a bit late for a senior), find out who the local admissions rep is and e-mail him/her with a question. If the college offers interviews locally with an alumnus, try to do that. Since your child is a senior and it is getting late, visiting a college fair booth is probably not feasible. I would think constant contact would be annoying, and would not bother with too many petty questions. Relax and think positive thoughts. I try to keep the ‘what will be, will be’ attitude also, which doesn’t always work for me!</p>

<p>I did read your other thread about the deferral (really a bummer!), and there was a suggestion to send a letter there describing interest in the school. It sounded like she is a great kid and is doing everything right, so good luck with that one also.</p>

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<p>If you cannot visit, I think it is important that you request a Skype interview or an interview with a local alum, if the college is small (and especially if it’s small and selective). Seems to me that the interview is very important to smaller schools; the admissions office wants to make sure you seem like a good fit and seem genuinely interested in the college.</p>

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<p>Look in the school’s Common Data Set (search for it on its web site), section C7, which lists freshman admission criteria. See if “level of interest” is considered.</p>

<p>Any school which considers “level of interest” should not be counted on as a safety because of this type of thing.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the info on the Common Data set. I just looked it up for the school she was deferred from, and it does list Interest as very important. Had to laugh - class rank was not nearly as important; poor girl must feel like being valedictorian isn’t worth much at all at this point! I had thought spending the money to fly and stay there for Open House counted as interest, but I guess not enough personal interest? She did send an additional letter to that school, but I will have her look this up and see what the other schools’ common data sets say.</p>

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<p>My son went to an open house about 1 1/5 hours away, rather than fly across country. He had 1 great interview for another college, and rejected. mixed bag. Personally, I’d be annoyed getting e-mails unless the info was specific, not about a topic that could be found on the website.</p>

<p>OP–did they really say she didn’t show interest?</p>

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<p>If the EA school REALLY is her absolute first choice, then have her GC contact the admissions rep for the school and let him know that, in addition to your D sending an email to the admissions office stating that if accepted , she would enroll there. And have her ask if an interview with a local alum is possible.
A call from her GC may be just what that the college needs to hear.
But dont play that card if she would matriculate elsewhere.</p>

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<p>Bookworm, yes, admissions did say that, although I felt the adm. officer was grasping at straws to try and explain why this obviously qualified student, who visited their campus, didn’t get in. She said while my D obviously is a strong, well-rounded student, some students stand out because they show more of an interest/commitment - through emails, additional essays they submit, but are not required. They said it is not obvious to them WHY she applied there or why she feels their school is right for her. I should point out that I was the one who called because my daughter was so distraught, but they do need to hear from her personally about why she wants go there, so now it’s up to my daughter. She sent another letter to them.</p>

<p>I did read of another poster who interviewed, wrote back and forth to her local admissions rep., and clearly told them that this school was her #1 during the interview and writing. She got in. </p>

<p>Her GC is not helpful. I wish now I’d asked for a change in GC back when my daughter first complained, but it’s too late. She goes to a public high school where some counselors are better than others. And while she is definitely interested in the original college, she couldn’t promise she would enroll, if she had to pay full cost. Honestly, it depends on how much aid she gets. We are not in a position to send her wherever she wants to go. If they offered her something, she would go.</p>

<p>Anyway, whatever happens with that school, happens. But it’s more the other applications I’m concerned about now, and that maybe she hasn’t done enough to make herself stand out. Darn that original school for making me feel this way!</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t want to go someplace that made me feel as if I had to grovel. Trust me, your D will get some fine offers elsewhere based on her abilities and interests, not on how much kissing up she does.</p>

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<p>Hi - I have seen similar situations - and ask you to look at it from the point of the college. They are concerned with their own needs and numbers - and their yield. They want to accept students who they believe are sincerely interested in their institution and are likely to attend. If they accept all the higher stat kids - who may be just using them as a safety school - and not many of the lower stat kids - who might be genuinely interested - they will probably fall short of achieving the class size that they desire. </p>

<p>Colleges know that students who are over-qualified for their institution are using them as a safety school - unless there is some specific reason why that student loves their college. It’s an interesting dilemma - because by definition - the student needs to apply to a few safety schools - but colleges do not want to be “used” in this manner. So - even if demonstrated interest is not a factor listed in the Common Data Set - I think you need to show the school some love - or they will rightfully question your level of interest.</p>

<p>Say the college has 2 applications side by side - one from a higher stat kid who has never visited and one from a student whose test scores are lower - but has visited, has emailed the regional rep a few times and used the optional information space to do a “Why XYZ University” type of essay - showing her perception of mutual fit. Which student do they admit? Which student is more likely to matriculate?</p>

<p>From the college’s standpoint - accepting students who have no real interest and no plans to attend is a waste of time. Your challenge is to convince them otherwise - let them know that even though she is “over-qualified” - she is genuinely interested. Sometimes families want to be at the top of the accepted student pool for merit scholarships. Sometimes they just feel that their student will do better at the top of the class rather than the bottom at a more prestigious school. You have to sell the college - not just on your student - but on her genuine desire to at least seriously consider attending their institution. If you think this sounds deceptive - I agree - it is. But this is how college admissions works.</p>

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<p>OP - I just want to add that this situation is more common at smaller and mid-size schools - and less common at large universities where admissions is strictly numbers driven and they are not going to obsess over level of interest. If she has another small-mid-size college that she is still waiting to hear from - see what you can do now to address this issue. If she has met the regional rep - perhaps at her high school or at a college fair - she should email the rep with a question pertaining to her intended major or a special program that interests her. If the college does a traveling road show program - where they visit various cities across the country - can you attend one of those? There is no way to know if these type of actions will help - but as long as you are worried - I would do something to show interest in these schools.</p>

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<p>Is the EA college need blind? Or need aware? since FA is a factor as to where she can afford to go, make sure she HAS applied to financial safety colleges that offer great FA and where she would be happy to go if accepted.</p>

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<p>"From the college’s standpoint - accepting students who have no real interest and no plans to attend is a waste of time. "
This is exactly where the term “Tufts syndrome” came from- Tufts got tired of admitting tip top kids who inevitably declined an offer of admissions from Tufts when their acceptance letters from HYPSM arrived. So they became much more selective, and starting rejecting great students who they felt would be accepted and matriculate elsewhere.</p>

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<p>There is one post from years ago that has stuck with me. The girl was rejected from a school that she thought was a match - she hadn’t shown it the love…according to them. The girl lived relatively close to the school and had been to events on campus for years and years…she obviously didn’t need an official visit. But of course, the school didn’t know how familiar she was with the school.</p>

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<p>Public schools are less likely to care; they know that applicants use them as safeties, and adjust their yield expectations accordingly. Indeed, some public schools offering big merit scholarships (e.g. Alabama and UAB) presumably know that they are going to get some scholarship applicants using them as safeties, but hope that a few of them actually attend.</p>

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<p>They can just look at historic yield rates for each type of student and admit accordingly. I.e. they may find that admitting the first student will give 0.2 matriculants, while admitting the second student will give 0.8 matriculants. Then they can control the size of the freshman class without trying to guess “level of interest” or engaging in “Tufts syndrome”.</p>

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<p>This is one of the reasons to include the state university of your own state as one of your safeties. They don’t get to play this game.</p>

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<p>Agree on using large public universities and your in-state options as safeties for this reason.</p>

<p>Saw a very interesting example of this situation a few years back. Male twins applied to the same fairly selective mid-size university. The higher stat twin was using it as a safety. Despite their family living about 2 hours from the university - he did not visit. The other twin had lower stats - but was more sincerely interested in actually attending this school. He not only visited - but managed to see the regional rep on a few other occasions as well - college fair and so forth. When the decisions were released (this was RD) - the higher stat twin was waitlisted - and the lower stat twin was accepted. The family was shocked by this result - but really - it made sense. The university correctly assessed which twin was more likely to matriculate and made their decisions accordingly.</p>

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<p>Not enough interest can hurt, especially at smaller schools that are within driving distance. Schools understand that you can’t fly cross country to visit, but if you are within a couple of hours drive, I think the idea is that a visit is doable. As others have said, a visit with a college rep can be a good sign of interest.</p>

<p>My son got waitlisted last year only at the school for which he was somewhat over-qualified. It is also a bit less expensive and so has seen an upsurge in applications. He declined the wait list, but I think one factor was his not very well written essay about why he wanted to go there.</p>

<p>I agree with others who have said that schools do not want to “waste” an admit, especially an EA admit, on students who appear likely to not attend or for whom they don’t plan to give aid. In the four years between my two kids, several school have dropped or greatly decreased merit aid in favor or more need-based money.</p>

<p>I would also caution you only to demonstrate interest if she wants to go to this school. I would not ask a GC to do a follow up if the school is just a “maybe”, even a strong maybe. This may not be an issue for your child, but it will make it more difficult for those that follow if a student says this is their first choice and then do not enroll and go to a similar school.</p>

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<p>Do they know she visited the Open House? Do they have a Why __ College type of essay? I do think sometimes kids don’t put enough thought into the supplementary essays at the safety colleges. If she hasn’t already, she might want to write a letter than describes some courses or programs that she likes at this school. Sometimes it helps to make a quirky observation. My son wrote in his “Why Tufts” essay that he liked all the chalked advertisements for coming events on all the sidewalks. He figured everyone wrote about international relations and besides that was what he’d noticed first. I have to say, just as an aside, that the idea that schools want to be shown the love irritates me. That said, I don’t mind that schools want to know if you have done enough homework to determine if the school is a good fit for you. Nothing says reject like the kid who wants to major in business or journalism as an undergrad at Harvard. (Neither major exists.) But Harvard accepted my son despite him telling the interviewer that it wasn’t his first choice. Tufts swears that they don’t practice Tufts syndrome, but they are looking for kids who are looking for what Tufts offers.</p>