<p>My son is going to major in science if he attends Wm and Mary. However, his weakness is writing. He hates it. He's very analytical and does not like literature, etc. He prefers to only take math and science classes.</p>
<p>We've been told to remove Wm and mary from the list because there is a ton of writing. (some is fine and to be expected). Any thoughts on this? </p>
<p>Also, do you think University of Richmond and Wake would have the same amount of writing? Thanks.</p>
<p>W&M has a freshmen writing requirement that is generally filled by the freshman seminar. You can see a list of what they are offering in the fall by going here: [William</a> & Mary - Freshman Seminars](<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/as/undergraduate/curriculum/freshseminars/index.php]William”>http://www.wm.edu/as/undergraduate/curriculum/freshseminars/index.php) and clicking through the links as directed… might have to choose “lower division writing requirement” instead of “freshmen seminar”. There are science options.</p>
<p>Most of the liberal arts classes have a term paper. Science classes will have lab reports.</p>
<p>He will not have to take a “literature” class, but he will have to fill his GERs which you can read about here: [William</a> & Mary - General Education Requirements](<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/as/undergraduate/curriculum/gers/index.php]William”>http://www.wm.edu/as/undergraduate/curriculum/gers/index.php)</p>
<p>So, he will not be able to take ONLY math and science classes. If he wants to do research and publish work during his undergraduate (or later) career, good writing skills will be required. There is also a writing center where the students that work there help others with their writing, see here: [William</a> & Mary - Writing Resources Center](<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/as/wrc/]William”>Writing Resources Center | William & Mary) He should be able to spread out his GERs that require writing over multiple semesters so he won’t be overloaded at once.</p>
<p>So… there will be writing for some GER courses, but you can fill those with lower level stuff. People generally take intro level courses for GERs. If he has IB/AP credits, he can get credit for some GERs, and will not have to take them at W&M.</p>
<p>I don’t think there is a significant difference in the amount of writing at W&M v. Wake/UR, but I’ve only taken classes at W&M.</p>
<p>Hope that helps some.</p>
<p>Not to sounds rude, but he NEEDS to take some writing courses, even if he only likes math and science. Read the other thread on here concerning Science at WM. One cannot possibly make it through any successful career without mastering writing skills.</p>
<p>Excellent responses above. Wake Forest and Richmond will also have writing requirements, since those are to be expected at strong universities. W & M’s GERs (i.e., core curriculum) insure that the student will write in a variety of disciplines. And the freshman seminars are almost always writing-intensive, including the science-oriented ones. My d is a dance minor, and she has several papers to write each semester in her dance or choreography classes.</p>
<p>W & M also has a Writing Resources Center, which my d visits whenever she has a major paper due. She has found it to be a valuable learning tool. Your son could use this as a resource at W & M. Is it that he dislikes writing, or that he dislikes it because his skills aren’t as strong as he wants them to be? As writers, most W & M students will be competent or better (or much better - the essay is an important component of the application). </p>
<p>momray is right on about the need for people in science careers to develop strong writing skills.</p>
<p>I apologize for sounding like a broken record, but this is a subject about which I am very passionate. IMHO, a “science” education is incomplete without a strong emphasis on writing, language, and communication with the “real” world.</p>
<p>Please follow momray’s advice and read this thread:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-william-mary/903606-wm-right-school-science-major.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-william-mary/903606-wm-right-school-science-major.html</a></p>
<p>You will notice that I obviously failed miserably at being able to type :-)</p>
<p>I AGREE he needs to write. However, he’s an in state male who is probably on the very extreme low end with writing/verbal. He had a 750 Math and A’s in Math, but I won’t even tell you his verbal and English grades.</p>
<p>I think W&M has trouble filling in state males and that’s why he got in. My concern if that he’ll be in over his head with too much writing and will fail miserably. </p>
<p>I Do want him to learn to write, but I’m thinking he should go to one of his less demanding options. He’s considering W and M, U of R with a huge scholarship, Wake (too expensive) but then he’s got Furman, Elon, Tech, JMU, and even Randolph-Macon.</p>
<p>(I have a daughter that do soo well in HS but got in over her head in college and it’s having a huge impact on her future. So just trying to weigh what is best)</p>
<p>Thank you all.</p>
<p>Being able to write well is very important, even in the sciences.</p>
<p>But I will say that if your son is careful about scheduling he can minimize the amount he has to write. The only GERs that it will be any trouble to avoid writing for are the three 4s, 5, and 7. GER7 can be knocked out with philosophy. There’s a decent amount of writing in that course, but it’s not like writing english papers. If you take it as your freshman seminar you’ve also fulfilled that writing requirement. Intro to Archaeology is a 4B and all multiple choice. I don’t think either of the intro to art history classes has significant writing either, and those are both 4A and 5. So it is possible to get through all of your GERs with very little writing, leaving only your major writing requirement, which does not have to be well written. The paper I wrote to fulfill the math requirement was mostly figures and equations.</p>
<p>I don’t recommend your son do this. I learned a lot in classes with ridiculously long papers, and I don’t regret taking them. But it is possible.</p>
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<p>I refuse to believe that there exists a HS student that is a worse writer than I was. This sounds like a great opportunity for your S to me. I admit that I was probably a bit of an anomaly, but graduated with a Computer Science degree and minor in Political Science/Criminal Justice (don’t ask).</p>
<p>With some work and the quality professors that W&M has to offer, I doubt that he will “fail miserably” and may flourish.</p>
<p>I don’t think W&M is hurting for instate males. If your son got in, he can be successful as long as he works hard and makes use of the available resources.</p>
<p>Agree with soccerguy. WM isn’t hurting with instate males. Something in your son’s application told admissions he’d make a fine addition to the class of 2014. If he puts forth effort, he can succeed at WM. I do not think U of R will offer an easier opportunity. To be honest, he need sufficient writing skills at JMU as well. Not certain GER at VT but would assume he would struggle as well. Writing aside, what school is most appealing to HIM?</p>
<p>“I Do want him to learn to write, but I’m thinking he should go to one of his less demanding options”.</p>
<p>Honestly I don’t think any good school is going to let a writing challenged student graduate without learning how to write in at least minimally acceptable way. As a mater of fact I think that may be one of the very definitions of a good school. Of course they should provide whatever support and tutoring an otherwise good student might need…</p>
<p>As for selecting Elon as one of “his less demanding options” - that won’t work, because Elon both pays attention to the SAT writing scores and encourages writing regardless of major. Elon does however provide lots of support for students to become life long writers.</p>
<p>Caity, what was your son’s Verbal and Writing scores in SAT? Maybe he does not like to write but he is not after-all as bad as you think. I have a soph. in W&M and he is having to write like nobody’s business even for GER subjects. So yes, I will echo most of the posts here that writing ability is very crucial. Unless (and I know I will get flamed for this), you turn out to be a genius in Math or Comp Science and 2 lines of proof written by you will be converted to a few papers by your assistants and colleagues. How many of us can become like that though? So yes, we need be able to write Caity.</p>
<p>The scientist/engineer that can quote Shakespeare is the one who gets promoted. Its part of being educated.</p>
<p>I also am not the greatest writer, but you cannot escape it. My dad is a professor and his students simply must write long lengthy reports on research. Being able to effectively communicate your point is crucial to standing out. What good is science if you cannot explain it coherently? Note: you are going to be using your writing skills a lot longer than your knowledge of specific subjects in life.</p>
<p>Any liberal arts school is going to require students to take classes in a wide variety of subject areas. At W&M, our General Education Requirements (GERs) require the math/sci students to take English and history courses and require the humanities students to take math/sci courses. </p>
<p>W&M would not have admitted any student who we felt was incapable of doing the academic work required of W&M students and we have resources on campus (the Writing Center for one) to assist students as we recognize that not all students excel in every area.</p>
<p>While your son will be able to focus on math/sci classes with his major and electives he will be required to take some writing-intensive courses but those courses will help prepare him for grad school or professional work because no matter what the profession, verbal and written communication skills are a must.</p>