If you're exhausted by the college admission process, you're not alone. So are the admissions officers

Because teaching is not necessarily/directly related to learning!

Someone can have all the knowledge, and tests to prove it objectively - yet may not be a good educator. Whether there was a successful transfer of that knowledge, whether learning actually took place, is best assessed on the “other end” of the equation!

If all teachers of one school have similar educational outcome, then you look at the school, the school system, and similar factors - if the outcome varies schools in the same district, that can tell you something, if it varies between teachers of the same school, that again can inform you.

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You put this well. One of the worst teachers at our HS (many parental complaints) is a MIT grad. I’m sure she would ace any test of knowledge but that would prove nothing about her teaching ability. Her intelligence and mastery of the material isn’t the issue - it is a matter of her inability to pass that knowledge on to others that is the issue.

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But isn’t “inability to pass on” what she knows the definition of bad teaching??

Someone can have a prodigious amount of knowledge and be super bright and also be a terrible teacher.

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Funny – one of the worst teachers at our HS (now retired) was also an MIT grad. Anecdotes, evidence, etc.

But isn’t having the knowledge the prerequisite to being able to communicate and share that knowledge? What I’ve observed, anecdotally of course, is that almost anyone can become a teacher, particularly in the last few years. If a teacher isn’t equipped with the right knowledge, how could s/he teach, regardless of her/his communication skills?

BTW, not all MIT grads are very good, even in terms of knowledge. Unfortunately, teaching isn’t as a highly valued profession as it should be in this country and few very good MIT grads became HS teachers.

But it was weighted at 2.5% of the total score, a minor part of the ranking.

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Absolutely - and knowledge as a pre-requisite can be tested on the left side (the teacher) of the equation. But that doesn’t assess the teaching!

By testing the right side of the equation (the students), you can assess both: what (if any) was learned, and to what degree/validity.

As I read this, I’m thinking of how my local school district can’t fill vacant teaching positions. And there is a shortage of substitute teachers.

Here, worries about teacher quality are subordinated to worries about having enough adults in the building.

Many things that are broken in k-12 education might begin to be addressed if we had higher teacher salaries. (No, I’m not a teacher)

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It was a thing that grabbed people’s attention. It still grabs attention. (Perhaps one reason why Stanford stopped publishing their acceptance rate?)

What’s more interesting to most people?

“Harvard accepts only 4% of applicants!”

Or…
“Most students graduate from Harvard in 4 years!”

Everybody wants to be in the club that’s hardest to get into. Watch any college decision reaction video. Like it or not, people care about it. It doesn’t matter if acceptance rate was only 2.5% of the ranking criteria.

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It should have instead been called No Child Gets Ahead. That was certainly our experience. All the time and energy was spent getting kids from under performing the bogie up to the required levels, and little/no time (and no incentive beyond intrinsic motivation) spent supporting academic highfliers.

The gaming you describe is also exactly what’s happened with USNWR rankings. Schools turn these measures into goals/policies . For example: “% classes with 19 kids or fewer.” If you achieve that by hiring more quality faculty and making more sections available, then great! But if, as some schools have done, you simply cap section enrollment at these otherwise arbitrary levels, but made those classes far more difficult to enroll in, then you’ve hit the target but made the underlying situation worse.

And totally agreed with @Lindagaf that the % that the acceptance rate factored into the USNWR formula is both besides the point and dramatically understated the focus and attention these numbers received. And still receive! And are still conflated with prestige.

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Which, to be fair, would be the definition of seeking to “not leaving any child behind”? (Hard to leave someone behind who is ahead?)

States had other school metrics (e.g., AP participation/results) available to monitor the other end of the “excellence” scale? Even before high school, in our state’s report cards, the number of kids performing above average, achieving high scores in standardized tests, was very much being watched by parents in school districts, or when assessing/selecting school districts before moving.

So furthering one group of students, doesn’t mean abandoning the other?

Tell that to our prior public school district. One which is nominally “good” and to which people move “for the schools.” We couldn’t get out of there fast enough. What you describe was simply not the case on the ground where we were (suburbs N of NYC).

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The abilities of teachers to teach vary a great deal, but the abilities of students to learn vary to an even much greater extent. If a student fails to learn, is it necessarily the fault of the teacher? It’s nearly impossible to measure how a teacher has improved the ability of any one student, let alone a classroom full of students. @ucbalumnus also pointed out that using students’ test results to measure teachers’ performance incentivizes the practice of “teaching to the test”.

I know this is very off-topic at this point, but as a K-12 teacher married to a spouse who mostly teaches college but has also taught 7th grade- graduate students, I would like to add that “being a good teacher” is also context dependent.

This year in a new position, half of my husband’s undergraduate students are men incarcerated in a medium-high security prison for violent crimes. He is an excellent humanities teacher in this context! Many outstanding teachers in other settings would absolutely be terrible with this student population and setting (not even a guard in the room with them.) It is rare to be a great teacher in such a place. In fact, another undergraduate program is now trying to poach him because “the inmates speak so highly all the time of Dr. X.” I am a very good teacher of an esoteric subject to elementary and junior high students, but I could never control the class, gain the respect, and deliver the humanities curriculum he does to the imprisoned.

I credit his ability there to growing up in pre-Giuliani New York City in the kind of family setting where telling a six year old to go alone to buy a parent’s cigarettes at the bodega on the corner was seen as normal. He demands their respect, but he gives them respect in return, particularly the respect of assuming they can function in a classroom like any other student.

Next year, it is looking increasingly likely that husband will be back to teaching uber-privileged, well educated undergraduates, at which he also excels. On the other hand, he is not great with the elementary and junior high group, students who are poorly prepared and/or overly-emotional, or those with over-involved and protective parents. (From experience!)

So, would he count as an excellent teacher, an average one, or a poor one? Depends on the context. The same teachers can be phenomenal in one setting and not in another. Teaching in six states across different types of schools, I have never known a teacher who did as well in every setting with every type of student, myself included. The qualities needed vary considerably. I completely lack the qualities to teach behind prison walls, but I am glad other people are superior teachers in those conditions and would find it surprising should the same individual be just as outstanding with, say, a class of third grade girls.

I do feel for the overwhelmed admissions officers at all but the most elite schools (original topic of post!) Also for the financial aid officers. I long ago came to the sad conclusion that in education in America, typically the more difficult the job, the worse it pays (see prison education above) and the cushier the job, the better it pays (see potential for next year in a SLAC.)

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Reminder that this thread is about exhaustion in college admissions offices, not in teaching in HS, nor cheating. Please return to the OP. Thanks!

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