<p>My daughter wants to major in chemistry and really liked ISU when we visited. However, that school doesn't show up on any of the "Top Chemistry School" lists. Do they have a good program there? Would she be better off going to a school that is ranked?</p>
<p>Rankings are basically meaningless. I assume you mean the US News rankings? Ignore them. </p>
<p>ISU’s chemistry program is pretty solid. They have a wide array of courses there, and ISU overall is a great school. </p>
<p>UIUC is another school to check out. They have a great chemistry program. They offer a specialized curriculum in chemistry that is very comprehensive. You mentioned in your other thread that your daughter wants to go into forensics though, so their standard Science and Letters program would likely be sufficient, since she would be taking other classes outside of chemistry that would pertain to her forensics ambitions.</p>
<p>Directly in the Chicago area, the University of Chicago is a great school. They, along with UIUC have one of the best chemistry programs in the state, but they are a very selective school.</p>
<p>Is there a reason you are not considering University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign ?</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your help! I have really been hung up on the US News rankings! It is good to hear that ISU would be an OK choice for her.</p>
<p>I know UIUC would be great too but my daughter has a very shy, timid personality and thinks a smaller school with smaller classes would be less overwhelming and be a better fit for her. Maybe I should take her for a visit there so she could get a feel for it and see if she could handle it.</p>
<p>University of Chicago would be great as well, just not sure she could get accepted or that we could afford it! Guess it never hurts to try. She got a 27 on her first ACT but she didn’t study for it at all and thinks she can do much better when she takes it again. </p>
<p>Do you have any knowledge of the programs at Grinnell or Wooster in Ohio? Or Marquette in Wisconsin?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Has your daughter considered Illiois Wesleyan? It’s right next to ISU, seems to have a solid chemistry program (if not, the school sometimes brings in lecturers from ISU to supplement any curricular deficiencies occasionally associated with LACs) and is pretty much entirely comprised of small classes.</p>
<p>Also Grinell is a phenomenal school for the natural sciences. The undergraduate research opportunities, fantastic facilities, and excellent financial aid make it an excellent choice for aspiring scientists. Easily one of the best LACs in the US.</p>
<p>Greetings from Normal, IL! I thought I would never see an ISU thread here but I guess I was wrong.</p>
<p>Anyway, I am a Senior at UHigh, the high school run by ISU. I did research in the chemistry department this summer (biochem…Dr. Marjorie Jones) and my overall impressions are that it is a very solid department. If you are motivated and talk to the professors they will give you so many opportunities for research. I have friends who took classes there as high school students and they had very good experiences. With a 30+ ACT she will be among the top 10% of students there and will thus get more opportunities for research and better letters of recommendation than she would at UIUC where you need to be 33+ to be considered top 10%.</p>
<p>If you have more questions about ISU or Normal just ask.</p>
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<p>Definitely go on a visit and get the overall feel of the university. You have one of the best public universities right in your state and discarding it without even visiting just because of the size cannot be considered anything other than foolish. </p>
<p>UIUC has excellent World Class physics, chemistry, math, engineering and computer science programs. People are paying 40k a year but you get it for only 24k a year. I really hope you have take its advantage and get the most out of your tax dollars.</p>
<p>I think she needs to go and look at the schools she is considering. Champagne-Urbana is excellent but it sounds that it might not be the right place for your daughter. She should check out how many students are actually taught by full time faculty, the number of chem majors and what they tend to do after school. She should sit in on intro and upper division chem classes.<br>
As a chem major, she should be doing research in a lab after her sophomore year, so she needs faculty that can take the time to look out for her in the research lab. I would worry that at Champagne-Urbana she would find herself relegated to the lower rungs of labwork, because the interesting jobs would be taken by post-docs and graduate students. A smaller less high powered state school or a LAC might be a better choice. I would like to second the suggestion of Grinnell if she likes small classes. Grinnell is a need blind choice that meets need 100%.</p>
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<p>The size difference between UIUC and ISU should be more or less irrelevant. UIUC has around 30,000 undergrads, and ISU has around 20,000 undergrads. That’s a big difference, yes, but ISU is still going to have a similar “big campus” feel. It’s not like the difference between a university with 30,000 students and a small LAC with 3000 students. UIUC has a student to faculty ratio or 18:1, ISU has a student to faculty ratio of 19:1, so really, they’re about the same in that respect. I would still strongly recommend visiting UIUC. </p>
<p>With a 27 ACT, UChicago is basically out of the question. Unless she manages to raise it substantially, or has a TON of amazing EC’s to make up for it…her chances of getting accepted are basically nil. But, that’s not a problem. Many people would say that UIUC has a better chemistry department anyway. </p>
<p>If she really does want a smaller school atmosphere, checking out some of the LAC’s would definitely be a good idea. LAC’s have never really interested me very much though, so I can’t comment on the quality of the chemistry programs at any of them.</p>
<p>Some posters have mentioned that ISU may offer her better research opportunities, and that may or may not be true. There may be less competition at a smaller school, but there are also going to be fewer available positions. It’s better to get a “lower rung” research position than to not get one at all. I’m a physics major, so I can’t comment on the number of chemistry internships that are available at either school, but I will say that UIUC has a ton of internship opportunities in general. They also work quite closely with several larger national labs like Fermilab, Argonne National Laboratory, and others. Many students at UIUC have a leg up on getting internships at these places.</p>
<p>Curt, beyond simply college sponsored research, there are plenty of summer internship opportunities, which may actually be easier to obtain at a LAC than a research university owing to potentially stronger letters of rec. </p>
<p>Another school the OP’s daughter might want to consider is the University of Illinois- Springfield. At the school, almost all classes have less than 50 students, and the vast majority of freshmen (81.7%) live on campus. Your daughter’s stats place her in the top quartile (although just barely) so it should be an admissions safety. Additionally, there’s only 3,112 undergraduates enrolled making it a nice compromise between a LAC and a much larger research university. </p>
<p>Here’s some [data</a> about the school.](<a href=“College Navigator - Search Results”>College Navigator - University of Illinois Springfield) </p>
<p>There’s also a [small</a> honors program](<a href=“http://www.uis.edu/caphonors/]small”>Capital Scholars Honors Program | University of Illinois Springfield), which your daughter may or may not qualify for.</p>
<p>Since Chemistry is offered at virtually every college (hundreds and hundreds and hundreds), the chances of any school with a good program being “ranked” is slim (and not necessary).</p>
<p>Virtually any established school is going to have a good Chem program…no need to worry about that. </p>
<p>Also look at some of the smaller schools like DePauw (good for aid and merit).</p>
<p>Have her retest and take the SAT as well.</p>
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<p>That’s very true, but there are a lot of variables. It’s quite true that you will tend to have a closer relationship with a professor at a smaller LAC, but at larger schools there is also the advantage of having more professors in general with which you can develop relationships. There’s a lot more potential for different professors having connections with different labs and opportunities.</p>
<p>Larger schools overall tend to have more close ties with larger labs. UIUC has close ties with internship programs at Fermilab, Argonne, Oak Ridge, Lawrence Berkeley…even CERN. </p>
<p>There are a lot of variables on either side. I don’t know if it can really be established that internships are easier to get in an LAC or a large University. In either case, there are plenty of internship opportunities available for anyone.</p>
<p>I fully agree with you. I’ve spent time at both types of institutions and believe that, at least for the first two years, a smaller institution might better serve a timid student although the opportunities for high level research are much more limited. If I were the parent, I’d have the OP tour some of the better Midwestern LACs (like M2ck said, Depauw has a great program although it’s an extremely Greek school) as well as UIUC and some regional universities. Another possibility is the Missouri University of Science and Technology, a smaller research university that might give the OP merit aid (OP run the NPC to find out).</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughts everyone! You have been so helpful and have given me a lot of great advice!</p>
<p>I’ve learned from the comments here that students aren’t always assured of getting to participate in undergraduate research. What is the criteria for being one of the students who is included? Is it based on grades?</p>
<p>Academics play a big part in it. Having relationships with professors that will give you good letters of recommendation plays a big part too. A professor is more likely to write a solid letter of recommendation for a student that they have seen more often, and actually recognize. University professors are busy people, and if a random student that they barely recognize shows up asking for a LOR, they’re likely to see it as more of a hassle than anything. </p>
<p>Those professors may themselves have summer research projects that students can get involved in as well. Those positions are more likely to go to students that have shown a greater interest in the topic, versus students that have shown up at lectures and nothing more.</p>
<p>I’ve learned from the comments here that students aren’t always assured of getting to participate in undergraduate research. What is the criteria for being one of the students who is included? Is it based on grades?</p>
<p>I don’t think any school “assures” that students get to participate in research. After all, some students don’t have the interest, some aren’t strong students, etc.</p>
<p>The trick often is: ASKING profs, responding to emails sent out by the school and profs that offer opportunities, being a top student, and getting to know your profs.</p>
<p>comfortablycurt,</p>
<p>FYI, Northwestern is now the top dog (along with UIUC) in IL for chemistry.</p>