<p>Great article...it's the reason DS is taking a personal finance class this semester...his senior year of college. He wants to know about this financial "stuff" before he goes out into the real world. He says the course is TOUGH. But he also says it is giving everyone in it some insight into the finances, taxes, investments, bank accounts, retirement, budgeting, etc. Personally, I think this should be a required CORE course for all students.</p>
<p>Yeppers...the courses are there at most universities. Most students should WANT to take a personal finance class and at least a basic accounting class so they can understand the financials of all those potentional Enronesque investments that will someday be pitched their way. My d is not thrilled with the idea ot taking a couple of business classes as electives, but she knows she'd better do it. After all, what good is to have a career that makes a bucket of money if you don't know what to do with it?</p>
<p>Btw...never thought I'd see the words 'upscale' and 'bowling alley' used in the same sentence... ;)</p>
<p>A class in personal finance I took in college - on a whim - was perhaps THE most useful and interesting class I'd ever had.</p>
<p>From the original article: "My friends and I are graduates of Wesleyan, Barnard, Stanford and Yale." The author had an undergraduate degree in philosophy.</p>
<p>One of the greatest, most pivotal moments of my life was being dragged along by my roomates to the Intro Accounting class at my ultraelite college. I had no interest in it, but they told me it was supposed to be a great course and a gut to boot. We walked into the room, and it was populated entirely by varsity football players, Trustafarian English majors, and their girlfriends. It was like going to Heaven and the 99 virgins are really there.</p>
<p>The class was oversubscribed (of course) and sophomores had to petition the teachers to get in. We petitioned entirely on the basis that it would be cool for four roommates to take the class together, and we were among the 10 sophomores who got to take the class.</p>
<p>It lived up to its reputation, and more. It was case-method, using a book the teachers had put together but never published. One case per class period. If you handed in 90% of the cases on time, you were guaranteed a C in the class without taking the exam, and if you passed the exam you got at least a B. "On time" meant at the end of class, class consisting of going over the case. So, effectively, if all you wanted to do was to pass the course, you had a choice between (a) doing the work, or (b) going to class and paying attention. (If you wanted an A, you had to do both, and study, too.) (Towards the end of the semester, the cases got hard enough that you had to do some prep on them if you wanted to complete them by the end of class.)</p>
<p>On top of all that, the course was brilliantly designed, and taught me a ton of accounting -- less the technical rules and more the theory, but I have been a decent accounting amateur all my career based largely on that class. (Well, I took more advanced accounting classes too, and they weren't nearly as fun, but I never learned more than I did in the first class.) And they brought their industry friends in periodically to recruit us for actual, high-paying jobs. It had never occurred to me that I could get a job in "business", and it was a shock to be told that maybe I could.</p>
<p>Colleges that change your life? That course absolutely changed mine.</p>
<p>Don't parents instruct their children on basic budgeting, tax information, retirement accounts, etc.? I can understand why some students might want to take a course about more complicated investments, but am puzzled why an Ivy school graduate was stumped by a W-4.</p>
<p>My dad the industrial engineer, who always did his own income taxes, taught me much of that stuff. It's getting time for me to bring my oldest son into the process the next time we do our income taxes (with personal software) here.</p>
<p>If these kids had been filling out FAFSAs and Profiles for the preceding four years, they would hardly be stumped by a W-4.</p>
<p>At an even deeper level, one wonders whether their undergrad educations helped much in the area of critical thinking and problem solving. Confronted with a novel form, a bright person should be able to figure it out without that much agonizing. Over the years, I've met a lot of well-educated people who simply couldn't attack a new problem with confidence.</p>
<p>At least she's working in an upscale bowling alley. Not exactly a poster child for the value of a liberal arts degree...</p>
<p>You get all the critical thinking when you do your own income taxes. You start thinking about what-nows, what-ifs, and howcomes. Which is about all you learn in college. Even Yale. You got it W?</p>
<p>As someone who's at the same point in life as the author of that article, I'm a little puzzled. I mean, all the personal finance stuff is a little thick -- I've spent much of the last two days swimming in information as I try to decide what to do with my short-term and long-term savings and my IRA. But come on, it's not that hard.</p>
<p>"but am puzzled why an Ivy school graduate was stumped by a W-4."</p>
<p>Well all I know is that if you take the deductions or exemptions or whatever they are called on the W-4 that they recommend we end up way overpaying our income tax. I don't need to lend Uncle Sam money. </p>
<p>I wish I'd gotten more money education somewhere in my education though reading Quinn's Managing Your Money in the 90s was a big help.</p>
<p>Heck, I went to a diploma mill public, and I manage my finances pretty swimmingly. I mean, I'm going going to be rich anytime soon, but I'm not starving. </p>
<p>I wonder how representative of a sample the author of the article and her friends are.</p>
<p>Actually, I never took a course in personal finance or business or similar. I learned a lot of it by preparing my own tax returns & also by being heavily involved in the campus YWCA (was on the Board of Directors for years). We had to go over the budget for the Y & hire a new executive director. It was very practical, hands-on learning. I also learned a great deal by applying for FAid every year & making sure I stretched my money enough so I never had to ask my folks for any (they had enough mouths to feed at home); there's a lot to be said for "living below your means."
W-4s aren't too critical one way or another; can't see why it would be a big enough deal to even write about. Lots of kids rent apartments as part of their college and/or grad school experience. We never experienced any major issues connected with it & aren't aware of many folks who did.
On the other hand, I think personal financial management classes are great to have offered for those who are interested. Our private HS offers one & many kids enjoy it. Our kids have opted not to take it--would rather either have a course they NEED for school or free time to study.</p>
<p>OK....true confessions here. I STILL have problems with the exemptions on that W-4 form. I do my taxes, fill out finaid forms, pay the bills, budget, and invest my money...but that exemption thing on that form perplexes me. DH and I have had to "adjust" ours several times because either too much money was being taken out or too little. On that one I can see why someone would have trouble. My kids both have filled out their own W-4 forms...but their employers had sample ones for them to use to answer their questions. Of course, neither of my kids are Ivy grads, and neither of them works in a bowling alley.</p>
<p>Dumb article. Dumb graduates.</p>
<p>If she has difficulty figuring out things like that, surely her education has taught her how to do basic research. What an education is supposed to do is teach one how to think and how to find out answers -- not give you the answers to every question that may arise. </p>
<p>No sympathy from me for her. I'm not whining that my Ivy education didn't take me through the steps of filling out a W-4. I am happy that I have the brains to be able to figure out things like that.</p>
<p>And -- what's with her stupid job? She comes off as a bimbo. Were she and her friends development admits?</p>
<p>The author is the Wesleyan grad (google is your friend).</p>
<p>Someone tell her even fulltime students must pay taxes.</p>
<p>I know several young ladies that got jobs in NYC with banks after graduation. They also rented apartments, usually with a little help from dad. </p>
<p>W-4 form is obtuse to everyone. Why don't they just let you write a number$$ to withhold instead of making you jump through numerous hoops to come up with "exemptions"? I filed a new one last year and I found the process ridiculous.</p>
<p>Annie Sonnenblick Writing Award => Caitlin Petre, 2006</p>
<p>Olin Fellowship => Caitlin Petre, 2006</p>
<p>Wesleyan is not a member of the Ivy League. </p>
<p>I just saw a link on a news aggregation site that may refer to a related phenomenon, or maybe not. </p>
<p>I don't know about these specific grads, but a lot of students are coddled, BIG time by their parents. I work with a lot of parents that are well educated and make generous saleries (mine isn't one of them) Although I think they were well skilled in those areas at their age, they didn't feel the need to pass it on. Their children never had to work except for pocket change, they had trips, gifts, etc. bought for them, every call home sent $ or another "cushion". One guy still laughs he's been subsidizing apartments for 2 years post-college. Even a course in finance doesn't prepare you well for the "real world" if you never really were in it.</p>
<p>Life Lesson</p>
<p>As many posters have noted, most of the lessons this young women felt she should have learned were not taught in college -- not even in accounting and finance classes -- they are lessons one learns as a part of life. Hopefully, if she ever has to live on her own money -- that's not inherited -- she'll learn those lessons.</p>
<p>The part of the article that disturbed me much more was when she talked about how her 30 page analysis of shame "did nothing to ease the sting when I spilled beer on a customer at the bowling alley." What she needs to know is there is NOTHING that should have eased her "pain" in this situation - not an Ivy education, elite LAC education, community college education or excessive positive reinforcement from Mom and Dad. For those of us who have been involved in customer service, there should always be a "sting" when we provide poor customer service.</p>
<p>And Roger...given your position as a college admissions advisor, I am surprised, and somewhat disturbed, at your barb about an LAC education. The value of an LAC education still exists even if the student doesn't immediately obtain a professional position or enter graduate school. Many years ago, after getting an undergraduate degree from an elite, rural LAC, I worked for 2 years in a major city as a secretary. I lived in a crummy apartment, but supported myself. This time allowed me to enjoy living in a large city and make the decision to go to professional graduate school. I don't regret it, and my secretarial experience did not devalue my undergraduate degree.</p>