I'm just confusing myself. Please help.

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Okay, here's the deal: I feel remorse when i eliminate a college from my list. I eliminate one, then either but it back on the list or add like three more in its stead. So. Please please can you guys help me eliminate some of the schools due to a:
-Lack of academic fit
-No chance of making it there
-I just shouldn't go there.</p>

<p>Also, I have the harsh feeling that my list is way above my level, and i need more schools near my level. Can you guys suggest some matches for me? Thanks!</p>

<p>Stats-
Gender: M
Ethnicity: Sri Lankan
College Class Year: 2008
High School: Public
Location: Wyoming, USA
High School Type: rarely (like really rarely) sends grads to top schools
Will apply for financial aid: Yes</p>

<p>Academics:</p>

<p>GPA - Unweighted: 3.98
GPA - Weighted: (school doesnt weight)
Class Rank: unweighted, top 7-8%, if weighted, prob top 3%
Class Size: 297
School Size- 780-ish</p>

<p>Scores:
(Sat scores are predicted, ACT is real.)
SAT I Math: 780-800
SAT I Critical Reading: 700-720
SAT I Writing: 710-740
ACT: 32, I might retake.
SAT II Math Level 2 (IIC): 780 (have taken, rest are to be taken)
SAT II Bio M-prob a 740-760
SAT II Physics-prob a 760-780</p>

<p>AP Calc AB-5
AP Calc BC-(prob a 4 or 5)
AP Phys C Mech and E&M-(prob a 5)
AP Gov't-(prob a 4 or 5)</p>

<p>Extracurriculars:
-AMC 10 2006 1st in state (score : 114)
-AMC 12 2007 2nd in state (score: 91.5)
-Wyoming State Math Contest (either first place or second place for five years)
-AP Calculus Competition, 2006 1st place in state, 2007 2nd place in state.
-Calc Bowl, 2007 1st place team in state
-JETS-TEAMS competition, 2nd place Nationally (in our economic division) </p>

<p>-Baseball-American Legion (I would consider it above Varsity level, as it is a feeder to college recruiters)
-Tennis-JV-3 years
-Swimming-JV and V-2 years
-Track-JV-2 years</p>

<p>-Member of Society of Physics Students (at the university)
-Member of the Indian Students Organization </p>

<p>-Summer Research Apprenticeship Program 2006 (a program at the University of Wyoming where I studied Computational Relativity)
-I am self employed as an Amateur Jeweler
-Doing independent research this summer on Stochastic Dif-eq's and Waves</p>

<p>-I am on a six person hiring team that hires new staff at our school. The team consists of two teachers, a principal, a site council member, a parent and a student. I have so far helped hire a physics teacher and a geology teacher.<br>
-Coaching Little League this summer
-Mock "We the People Judge"</p>

<p>Sophomore Classes:
-Concert Band
-Spanish 3
-AP Calc AB
-Adv American Studies (a dual block class of US History and American Lit.)
-P.E.
-Physics 1</p>

<p>Junior classes(this year):
-AP Gov't
-Chemistry 1
-Intro to Art
-Writers Workshop (sem1)
-Survey of Fiction (sem2)
-Physics 2
-AP Physics C-Mech and EM-Ind. Study
-AP Calculus BC-Ind. Study</p>

<p>University classes:
-Foundations of Geometry (Fractals and Projective Planes) (semester 1)
-Classical Mechanics (Lagrangian and Hamiltonian Mechanics) (semester 2)</p>

<p>Planned Senior Classes:</p>

<p>note: college classes are dual enroll at University of Wyoming.
-AP English Lit
-Chemistry 2
-Advanced Art (independent)</p>

<p>College Classes:
Semester 1
-Calculus 3
-Applied Differential Equations
-Linear Algebra (stuff like eigenvectors and matrices)
-Circuits Analysis w/Lab</p>

<p>Semester 2-
-Vector Calculus
-Applied Dif-Eq 2
-Circuits and Systems
-Topology or Probability (not sure yet)</p>

<p>Schools (in no order):
Caltech
MIT
Princeton
Brown
Stanford
Harvard
Yale
UPenn
Duke
Columbia
Harvey Mudd
Carnegie Mellon
Rice
UChicago
Northwestern
Johns Hopkins
Cornell
UC Berkeley
UCLA
UCSD
U of Wyoming</p>

<p>(see? the list is long cuz im too forgiving.)</p>

<p>Major:
I'm planning on doing math/bio/med/physics stuff. (mostly med and math combo.)</p>

<p>Thanks again!!</p>

2

<p>You sound like a great fit for Chicago in some ways, but if the idea of taking a core curriculum that has a considerable amount of reading and writing doesn't interest you as much as making your own plan for yourself from the start, cross Chicago (and Columbia) off your list.</p>

<p>Have you visited campuses yet? Some have an urban/concrete-y feel (Columbia, CMU), some have neogothic quads (Yale, Princeton, Chicago), some have a love affair with brick (Harvard, JHU). I wouldn't necessarily eliminate a school based on its campus, but if there's a campus that strikes you are horrific or ugly, there's no reason you should apply there.</p>

<p>Is weather a concern? What about the varsity sports scene? Take a look at the most popular majors at some of these schools-- do you want to be in an environment where everybody is studying what you are studying, or do you want to be surrounded by students with different academic focuses?</p>

3

<p>You certainly have a fine record, but statistically your chance at most of these schools is very low. Coming from a school that rarely sends anyone to top schools, you would usually be at the very top of your class for an ivy admit and top 8% is pretty much unheard of unless you have a real hook. Your low CR score is also problematic. Take a step back, review admissions stats and make a more sensible list.</p>

4

<p>You're going about it the wrong way. Why don't you choose colleges based on what you want, research those more, and then choose some safeties/matches/reaches based on your stats? Here's a good start:</p>

<p><a href="http://apps.collegeboard.com/search/index.jsp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://apps.collegeboard.com/search/index.jsp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

5

<p>Since these schools vary so much in academic areas of strenthg, size and location it is easy to see the confusion.</p>

<p>You do have very good stats and not that any of these are impossible, but lots of reaches, you definetly need some real matches. You need to research this list, find out which ones really appeal to you from an academic fit and then take that list and apply it to match/safe school, especially if financial is needed. </p>

<p>You will get much better feedback if you can focus a little more.</p>

6

<p>If you don't want to be in freshman classes with 600 students then eliminate Berkeley and UCLA. Even their upper level classes often have 60 students whereas at a place like Chicago or Rice it's more like 10 in some upper level classes. JHU has too many biology/med applicants so it will be statistically harder to get into without any gain in program quality for you. How's that for eliminating 3 schools? Next, you really need to look at their programs. Pull up the web sites. Do you like the courses and the ongoing research? Of course, easiest would be as previous poster stated to look at things like campus and weather, but it sounds like you don't care about those or you would already have eliminated a few schools.</p>

7

<p>You do have one important advantage: You're from Wyoming, and colleges are looking for geographic diversity. The fact that your high school rarely sends people to the "elite" schools doesn't matter; No school in Wyoming really does, and that makes your application a rarer commodity than one coming from, say, a student in Westchester County, NY. (This is not to overstate the importance of geographic diversity - just that it may give you a boost at some schools)</p>

<p>One other important point: If you're hoping for financial aid, the UC's out of state are not the best bet. While some of the UC's offer a limited amount of merit scholarships, need-based aid for out of state students is going to rely heavily on loans.</p>

<p>Since you will be applying for financial aid, I'd encourage you to start by getting smart about how financial aid and merit scholarships work. Estimate how much your family will be expected to contribute (use the financial aid calculator at <a href="http://www.collegeboard.com)%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.collegeboard.com)&lt;/a>, and make sure you assess how comfortable you might feel with loans. If you're not comfortable with loans, look for the schools on your list that tend to offer financial aid packages that are not dependent on loans (there are many sources of information on this).</p>

<p>Beyond that, the advice above is good: Start with who YOU are, and your preferences in a college experience. Think about what you have liked and not liked about your high school experience -- what would you like to be the same or different in college? Then, narrow down your list. </p>

<p>One final point: A college list should NEVER be comprised solely of schools that are extremely competitive. Right now, the only safety you have on your list is the University of Wyoming. Unless you absolutely wouldn't mind attending the U of Wyoming if all else failed, you need more match and safe bet schools on your list, especially as they are often the best places for merit scholarships and the best financial aid.</p>

8

<p>Why not other state schools in your area, or even those in the East as safety or match schools, assuming you want a research school? I have no idea what your prefences are with regards to school environment or life, so little can be recommended.</p>

9

<p>ricegal: I don't think any classes at Berkeley would have 600 students. Upper-div courses have much fewer students. 74% classes at Berkeley have fewer than 30 students (compare with Stanford's 80%); 60% have fewer than 20 (Stanford, 73%); and about a third have less than 10 (Stanford, 38%). Only 15% have more than 50 (Stanford, 10%). As you can see, though Berkeley is a large university, its class sizes are similar to private schools like Stanford. I surmise UCLA would be similar, especially since its student:faculty ratio is something like 1:11.</p>

<p><a href="http://cds.berkeley.edu/pdfs/PDF%20wBOOKMARKS%2005-06.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://cds.berkeley.edu/pdfs/PDF%20wBOOKMARKS%2005-06.pdf&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.stanford.edu/home/statistics/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.stanford.edu/home/statistics/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>So no, eliminating two great schools because of a misconception like that would be stupid.</p>

10

<p>ok, so far i have:
-aim for my tastes, not for prestige
-get more matches/safeties
-my list is all over the board style-wise, aim for what fits me.</p>

<p>Alright, can any of you guys suggest some state schools i could aim for? I was looking at UTexas Austin since its strong in math; however it's rated like #2 for drinking, which is against my tastes. </p>

<p>The UC's itself are another deal since im OOS, which kinda sucks, but hey, i can't help that. </p>

<p>Any other suggestions?</p>

11

<p>"I was looking at UTexas Austin since its strong in math; however it's rated like #2 for drinking, which is against my tastes."</p>

<p>What are you going by? Princeton Review? I don't think this is quite what's meant by "go by your tastes." There's going to be alcohol wherever you go. You shouldn't really let that be a deciding factor. Really, did you try the college matchmaker? Are you really sure about the area you want to go into? If so, check out colleges that are strong in that area. Don't go by just rankings, which will help you find colleges. But define what you think a good X program would be: ideal courses, faculty, opportunities, etc.</p>

<p>For example, my prospective major is linguistics. Of the 4,000+ colleges in the US, less than 150 have it as a major. From there, I looked at colleges based on certain factors: if it was too small (less than 10,000), I eliminated it; if it was too rural, I eliminated it; if it had a religious affiliation, I eliminated it. I came up with quite a nice list of matches, safeties, and reaches. For me, the college search was somewhat easy (though I assure you, I did much more searching than just that). So you might be able to do something similar.</p>

<p>Do you want a religious affiliation? Do you want a large or small school? Do you want it to be more tech-oriented? Do you want an urban, suburban, or rural school? Really, these questions are best answered in the college search matchmaker. It's pretty helpful.</p>

12

<p>"What are you going by? Princeton Review? I don't think this is quite what's meant by "go by your tastes." There's going to be alcohol wherever you go. You shouldn't really let that be a deciding factor."</p>

<p>Yeah youre right, im just being stupid. Well...i want to combine math and medicine into something i like, and so as a result (along with other factors), i actually ended up with two schools that fit me, JHopkins, and something else. I think ill try for math and med separately and see where intersections between the lists occur.</p>

13

<p>kyledavid: There was an article in the San Jose Mercury News just this past fall stating that the freshman chem class at UCB had 800 students: they actually showed the students sitting on the floor. The article quoted the professor as saying he never even met more than 10% of the students.</p>

14

<p>Yeah, the big thing that I see is a WAAAYY top heavy list. You would have a top heavy (though not unreasonable) list if you were applying to half the amount of top schools that you have on that list. I think that with schools at the selectivity of Rice, Harvey Mudd, and Carnegie Mellon, you are at a more reasonable level to shoot for--not to say that you shouldn't apply to those top schools, but while a strong applicant, nothing in your record particularly jumps and out and screams "I must be accepted!". That doesn't mean that you can't make it into some fabulous schools--but if you keep a list like that (not even counting how hellish it would be for you to apply to that many schools!), you are in real danger of not having any real choices next April (although the geographic tip factor is helpful). </p>

<p>Also, think about some LACs--the top ones certainly aren't easy to get into, but they are "easier" than HYPMS etc, and they offer excellent educations that are equal or near equal to the universities that you listed. Harvey Mudd is certainly a good choice...think about some others, too.</p>

15

<p>Hmm? We the People alum? <em>chuckle</em>
Merely curious. WTP was good memories.</p>

<p>I actually don't think your stats look that bad--top 7-8%? How are you estimating that? I understand that your school doesn't weight, but a 3.98 is pretty high. Does your school just give grades out very easily?</p>

<p>Even if it does, your standardized test scores are moderately high. And as others have noted, you are from Wyoming. It'll depend more on your essays than anything else. And coming from a traditionally weak school academically, and a state that doesn't really send students to top schools anyhow, I'd think you'd have more to talk about than most posters here.</p>

<p>
[quote]
ricegal: I don't think any classes at Berkeley would have 600 students. Upper-div courses have much fewer students. 74% classes at Berkeley have fewer than 30 students (compare with Stanford's 80%); 60% have fewer than 20 (Stanford, 73%); and about a third have less than 10 (Stanford, 38%). Only 15% have more than 50 (Stanford, 10%). As you can see, though Berkeley is a large university, its class sizes are similar to private schools like Stanford. I surmise UCLA would be similar, especially since its student:faculty ratio is something like 1:11.</p>

<p><a href="http://cds.berkeley.edu/pdfs/PDF%20w...KS%2005-06.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://cds.berkeley.edu/pdfs/PDF%20w...KS%2005-06.pdf&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.stanford.edu/home/statistics/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.stanford.edu/home/statistics/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>So no, eliminating two great schools because of a misconception like that would be stupid.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
kyledavid: There was an article in the San Jose Mercury News just this past fall stating that the freshman chem class at UCB had 800 students: they actually showed the students sitting on the floor. The article quoted the professor as saying he never even met more than 10% of the students.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Or, we could go by the word of a person who goes to UC Berkeley, and had roughly 30 or so of his high school classmates go to UCLA. ;)
No offense meant towards the above two posters though.</p>

<p>If you're talking about freshman classes--especially for any of your majors--you're not looking at 600 person classes. You're looking at 800-1000, as I know from personal experience. 600 would have been a moderate sized class last semester for me.</p>

<p>Do note, this VERY quickly changes as you get past the introductory courses. It drops to about 300 :P. Though after the intermediate classes, it does eventually fall to 15-20 or so for many upper divisions (unless you're in a popular major... like one for pre-med). Overall though, if I were to give you advice personally--don't go to UC Berkeley for pre-med. Too many people do that already, and many of the courses you need are the weeders to the majors that enjoy weeding the most--your GPA, especially if you came from a school that didn't prepare you enough (you seem to be a bright student, but schools that don't often send students to top schools generally don't make too much of an effort/are the cause of a lack of students at top schools) will be low, and your med school chances will be hurt greatly because they care mostly about raw GPA regardless of difficulty of classes.</p>

<p>The same likely applies to UCLA, though I've heard it's better there.
I don't encourage you to take UC Berkeley off because it has large intro classes--I encourage you to take it off because you are pre-med and you are out-of-state, so you get no financial benefits anyhow.</p>

<p>I personally think your list is fine, though you are primarily shotgunning all the top schools. Apply to more than your perfect fits, but do use preferred college atmosphere as a sieve.</p>

<p>Also, adding a few more "safeties" certainly wouldn't hurt. In my personal opinion though, as long as you don't mess up on the essays, you've got a decent shot at a good number of those schools.</p>

16

<p>I think as you start to do applications, you'll figure out what you really like. Schools were naturally eliminated based on my motivation level to fill out their app...not because I was lazy, but because as you start to fill out the application you ask yourself why you're applying there and if it's even worth the effort to apply. I cut down my list from about 14 or so schools to 9 schools this way because I just began to realize what I wanted as I was going through the process of filling out apps. </p>

<p>Match up all the schools with one another in your mind and ask which one would come out on top. Is there one that consistently loses? As far as my elimination process, I realized that I would take my safety school over many other choices on my list. Visit if you can as well! That helps you realize what your tastes/preferences are.</p>

17

<p>sigh...i really need to rethink my list. thanks guys</p>

18

<p>bump...???</p>

19

<p>don't let people discourage you, not only do you have a decent shot (about as decent as it gets at schools in this league) at any top school, your list is fine, aiming for prestige is fine. you obviously worked hard in high school, now go to a school that will reward you for that hard work with a good education and favorable job prospects.</p>

<p>if you can visit some of the schools, try. you'll find that uchicago and northwestern can be visited easily in one trip, and that many schools in the northeast are rather close together (for instance, if you rented a car i think you could see JHU, UPenn, and Carnegie-Mellon on the same trip, also MIT, Harvard, Columbia, Princeton, Brown, and Yale even possibly on the same trip)</p>

<p>don't NOT apply to a school that you think you can (and trust me, judging by your stats, you CAN) get into just because someone on CC is deriding you for being superficial or having too high of expectations, probably because they are jealous you can even consider schools of that caliber, or because they themselves were rejected.</p>

<p>good luck</p>

20

<p>wow, thanks a lot for the reinforcing comment elsijfdl!!!</p>