I'm not a genius.

<p>spydimag, you should take the tests as often as you can (once a year). You will probably take it through your school- talk to your math teacher.</p>

<p>What month can I take the test?</p>

<p>There are two exam dates in February. I would suggest taking the AMC 12, although you'll also be able to take the AMC 10 as a sophomore.</p>

<p>For info on the AMC tests: </p>

<p><a href="http://www.unl.edu/amc/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.unl.edu/amc/index.html&lt;/a> </p>

<p>And as I think someone has already mentioned in this thread, there is great information about preparing for the AMC tests (and about other fun math activities) at </p>

<p><a href="http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Forum/index.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Forum/index.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Honestly... I believe your success at Caltech is more tired to your desire to work than your natural intelligence. That's why grades matter so much... it's not that they're testing your intelligence, but rather whether or not you're capable of performing high-intensity work, whether it bores you or challenges you.</p>

<p>That's also why (from what I've gathered), if you have low grades, it's more important to demonstrate your ability to work than it is demonstrate your intelligence. If you're seriously considering Caltech, you're probably smart enough to get through it, but are you diligent enough? Persistent enough? Insane enough? (I kid!)</p>

<p>Also, some Caltech undergrads never even qualified for the AIME when they applied (they did take it, but scored too low). But AMC scores aren't the best predictor of intelligence. (their scoring rubric after all, harshly penalizes stupid mistakes such that many people are afraid to guess) . But like others said, it's a combination of intelligence and drive. </p>

<p>If you would like to get a sample of Caltech's undergraduate math courses...</p>

<p><a href="http://www.math.caltech.edu/courses.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.math.caltech.edu/courses.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.pma.caltech.edu/physicscourses.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.pma.caltech.edu/physicscourses.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I'm a caltech frosh right now.</p>

<p>(no frosh/soph AMC/AIME experience, I did score third highest in the school for AMC8 in 8th grade)</p>

<p>AMC 12B junior year: 100.5
AIME: 1</p>

<p>AMC 12B senior year: 111.5 or somewhere around there between 110-120
AIME: 5</p>

<p>You don't need to pwn AIME or the AMC to do well (I'm doing pretty well).</p>

<p>While it always helps to be astonishingly brilliant, it actually pays to have a realistic idea of one's ability.</p>

<p>Those students who only THOUGHT they were geniuses and found out that they weren't were also the ones most likely to suffer from the shock of Tech and never recover.</p>

<p>Those who worked hard and rolled with the punches made it through ok.</p>

<p>One well known economist made the following remark about hiring junior faculty: "Smart guys are a dime a dozen. At this level I'm looking for creativity and persistence." If you're good enough to be admitted, I think much the same is true about Caltech.</p>

<p>It is true that it's better to be an outstanding student at average place than a bad student at a great place ....</p>

<p>It is also true that at a place where everyone is at your level or better will ultimately improve you -- but a place where you're the smarter one, you'll end up setting the high standards for others to strive to, but it won't do much good for you personally.</p>

<p>All it boils down to whether or not you want to be challenged (and subsequently stressed) for the upcoming 4 years. Do you think you are organized enough in your studying? Do you think you want to get involved in doing research? Do you think you won't mind giving up most of your life to sitting on your behind and studying?</p>

<p>The better points of picking a challenging school are:
1. You'll probably get into a good grad school later on even if you were a B and C student. May be not top 5 programs - but you'll still have better chances coming from school which is famous for its great education and high standards.
2. Challenging schools are not filled with geniuses. Geniuses make up a very small part of the population. It is highly unlikely that they will all choose to attend your particular school that year. There will be a few of them there, of course. The majority of students will be simply hard-working and motivated individuals. And you can be one too.
3. I already said about the school improving you, rather than you improving the school.
4. If they picked you, this means they think you can do it. They don't want to pick students who would fail. Especially Caltech, which has a very narrow alumni base to give them monetary donations on which they heavily rely.
5. Small institutions like Caltech can afford to give more personal attention to their students. If you don't get something, you can always seek help of your professor. You can get much more personal letters of rec ... and you can get these letters from people who are well-known in their fields of study. This is very very very important for grad school.
6. If you join a group to do research, it is likely that it will be very interesting kind of research and that you might even have your name on a publication. Top science and math departments tend to engage less in pseudo-science than those which are not top.
7. You'll meet more of interesting people at places that select for the smartest students.
8. always do reading before class and you'll at least sorta get what the prof is talking about ... this is same place to place
9. you can always brag about attending the school later on - no one will ask if you were an A+ or a C student there ...</p>

<p>To the OP,</p>

<p>what do u feel you did to get in EA? I'm really interested in Caltech...</p>

<p>Side note: I got a 101.5 on AMC Soph. year... Only soph. in my school that did qualified for the AIME. I am takin it tomorrow...the practice questions are so hard.... I'm gonna get a 1 max. Oh well...theres always next year.</p>

<p>I slept through the test. That may have been a good thing, however, considering I only got a 107.5 when I took it for fun.</p>

<p>it scares me that so many threads have posts about amc/aime stuff. is caltech that nerdy?</p>

<p>Thank you to everyone who replied- I am definitely less anxious about Caltech, and I'm very seriously considering it right now. (I'll be at CPW, if anyone else is planning on going!) But I really can't thank some of you enough for being so encouraging and also honest about this whole insane process that is college decisions.</p>

<p>And FYI, I've been reading all your responses as you've posted them, I just hadn't replied... better late than never? ...no? okay, sorry! </p>

<p>"To the OP,
what do u feel you did to get in EA? I'm really interested in Caltech..."</p>

<p>^I'm really not sure what I did to get in EA. As far as I can tell my application was pretty standard in terms of the people that apply to Caltech (solid grades, high SATs, extracurriculars). Nothing that stands out. In fact, one of my friends was deferred EA and he had done really well at state level science fairs and he had really good grades- I'm not sure why I was accepted and he wasn't.</p>

<p>i'm glad i stumbled on this thread. i just got my acceptance letter from Caltech yesterday and after the initial thrill wore off, it was replaced by sort of an apprehension about whether i can survive at Caltech. Reading this thread makes me feel a little bit better knowing that i'm not the only person with these concerns.</p>

<p>i do have a couple questions i would like to ask here about how class placement works at caltech. i know that caltech doesn't really use AP scores to place you into classes so, how do you get placed into your classes? if anybody can tell me a little bit more about that, i'll appreciate it.</p>

<p>btw, this is my first post here :)</p>

<p>nocloud,
You'll get placement tests for Ma, Ph, and Ch in the mail over the summer. Some of these (Ph, for example) may be followed by more placement tests when you arrive if you did well. There's also a writing test you have to take to determine whether you need to take the intro writing classes.</p>

<p>placement tests over the summer mailed home?</p>

<p>so, do i just take them at home at my own discretion?</p>

<p>also, do i have to take all three tests regardless of my intended major?</p>

<p>and (i've got to ask this one), is there any way to prepare for these placement tests? are they similar to say an AP test?</p>

<p>sorry about all these questions, i'm seriously planning on attending caltech so i'm kinda curious</p>

<p>Yup, we live by the Honor Code, so you're told how much time and what materials you can use, and you're expected to take the tests honorably. You don't declare a major until the end of the freshman year, so the same things are required of all students regardless of intended major.</p>

<p>I haven't ever taken an AP test, so I can't compare them. In general either your high school textbooks or AP manuals tend to be good study materials. Some people get the Caltech textbooks ahead of time to study -- I think this is obsessive and misses the point entirely. You're not trying to learn the class on your own over the summer -- you should just review what you know already.</p>

<p>I took the tests 4 years ago and what's required might have changed slightly (though it'll be mostly the same). However here's a summary:</p>

<p>Writing: required, not timed; We got the prompt midway through the summer and had to submit an essay a week later. You could use any sources as long as you cited them. Don't blow this one off or you'll have to take an extra writing class or two.</p>

<p>Math: They sent 5 tests (one for each term). The first was required for all students in order to determine if you are ready for the first term of Math (i.e. don't blow this one off or you'll have to take an extra course first and second terms!) They're testing your ability to write proofs as well as your grasp of concepts. I don't think studying would have helped that much.</p>

<p>Physics: They only sent one test which determined which section of Ph 1 you were placed in (there were three different levels). This test was required and was VERY conceptual. If you were placed in the highest level section, you were offered the chance to take additional tests to place out of Ph 1a or later classes. </p>

<p>Chemistry: not required; It reminded me a lot of a test I took for the Chemistry olympiad and was probably similar to the AP test -- the questions were very specific. I didn't study and really regretted it.</p>

<p>Computer Science: not required; I didn't take it (even though I'm a CS major) so I'm not sure what it was like, but I think they asked you to write a few simple programs demonstrating knowledge of concepts. It probably wasn't timed, but you also probably couldn't use any sources</p>

<p>nocloud, I'm glad you're thinking about Caltech!</p>

<p>A few additions to what alleya said:</p>

<p>Few weird terms they like to use:
placement exam - an exam everyone takes to determine if people need extra help in classes
advanced placement exam - an exam students can elect to take to test out (and receive credit?) for core classes</p>

<p>Math: I believe there is one placement exam (to basically see if you've had any Calculus before) - take this exam seriously, but if you haven't taken Calculus, don't try to learn it for this test. It's much easier just to take a few extra units of math first and second term. In addition to the placement exam, there are five advanced placement exams - one for each core math class. For some reason you have to test out of both the first two exams to be eligible to test out of any, which is pretty annoying. </p>

<p>Physics: What alleya said, but I think they got rid of the lowest ability level section, so the test is only to determine who is in the advanced section and gets to try to test out when they arrive. </p>

<p>Chemistry: There is a placement exam, and an advanced placement exam. I personally found the first one easy (though I hadn't covered all of the topics), and the second one pretty hard.</p>

<p>hey, thanks for the responses!</p>

<p>one thing i'm still curious about. for the math test, alleya said that you to write proofs. what type of proofs do we have to write?</p>

<p>Actually, if I recall correctly, the first placement math test has no proofs, just a few integrals and the like.</p>

<p>The tests to place out of Math 1 have some proofs -- a typical one is, "prove that the exponential function e^x is unbounded as x -> infinity; use any definition of the exponential function you like."</p>