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BTW, where is this same data for Penn's Arts & Sciences?
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<p>We don't know because Penn won't release it.</p>
<p>Frankly, between knowing Penn's SAT scores by college and having Penn field an ice hockey team again, I would much rather prefer the later.</p>
<p>Based upon some of the responses to the OP's post, perhaps someone should start a thread entitled "Meanest Ivy" . . . seriously, some of you really need to lighten up.</p>
<p>There is only a point in fielding a team if the various schools competing plan to be competitive with each other. In my day, it was much more interesting to see Cornell vs. BU than Cornell vs. Penn. Given the priorities, the loss of Penn's team, or Columbia's, then would have been a non-issue.</p>
<p>There is another thread on CC someplace that relates to this..</p>
<p>
[quote]
Imagine if I went on the Penn boards and went off about how in my experience Penn students are nothing but anti-intellectual, incurious, and pampered students -- sloven materialists who only care about their career opportunities.</p>
<p>I do hope you are able to learn a little bit more tact.
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<p>I didn't start this thread, compared to the insecure and upset Cornell trolls who started one of the Penn forum ABOUT ME. It strikes me as symptomatic of a greater inferiority complex on this board in general, especially when my first comments here were so respectful, and were compelled by the fact that people actually mentioned me on this thread before I started reading it.</p>
<p>
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especially when my first comments here were so respectful
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<p>Right. This was your first post on this thread:</p>
<p>
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I'm just going to state my boilerplate view of Cornell:
1)Absolutely top-notch departments in almost every field. Just look at NRC rankings.
2) SOME kids are verrrry smart. These are almost uniformly engineers and most Arts & Sciences kids.
3) A lot of other people are earth-shatteringly dull or outright stupid. This can be upsetting and alarming during your first semester. Examples range from watching students pronounce Shakespeare's "yea" as "yeah," seeing them say that Brazilians speak Spanish, or studying with a girl who's getting a C in intro to sociology.</p>
<p>So, why was I paying 45k a year to share my future reputation with the idiots who would be manning the counter at McDonald's in 4 years?
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<p>If that's the definition of respectful that you were brought up with, I feel really quite sorry for you. Stay off the Cornell forums in the future. Please do not come back.</p>
<p>This is part of a pattern I've seen on another board.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>make debatable, negative comments about a particular college that members of that community will obviously find offensive. Making these comments on that college's own board is a nice touch, in this regard.</p></li>
<li><p>Members of the offended college's community take exception to these remarks,
as they inevitably will. Not to preserve their fragile egos, but because they want their schools characterized fairly in the eyes of potential applicants.</p></li>
<li><p>Then, when they take exception, brand them as "insecure", or having an "inferiority complex". Because they won't sit there and just accept characterizations that they don't agree with. Posted on their board, for good measure.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>So they either accept the offending viewpoints which they might not happen to agree with, without comment or challenge, or are "insecure".</p>
<p>I prefer to simply demonstrate how completely ridiculous, immature, and out of line said posters are. Reasonable individuals can then develop their own opinions on the schools and the students associated with such schools.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.auto%5B/url%5D">www.auto</a> admit.com/thread.php?thread<em>id=864647&mc=142&forum</em>id=1#10330007</p>
<p>your link is broken</p>
<p>^ just delete the spaces between auto and admit, and 1033 and 0007</p>
<p>What other schools are you applying to?</p>
<p>I noticed a certain UPenn poster said they were done with this thread. Well, they've since posted at least 4-5 posts. It's funny they've called everyone else a troll, even funnier considering many of this person's critics don't even go to Cornell.</p>
<p>
[quote]
you must be some pretty sharp person. But as far as the implications you are making, do you have some data to show that the range of talents in the student body of Cornell's engineering college is materially different, or lower, than at Penn's Engineering College? Even if you did, I can pretty much assure you it has no negative impact on the reputation of Cornell's engineers. But I'd be curious to see it, if you have some information to back up this particular point of your argument.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I graduated Summa Cum Laude, is that good enough? But how does my intellect affect my characterization the average Cornellian's intellect? I'm not very good at basketball, so I'm can't assert that Michael Jordan is great!?!? Nice argument from authority!</p>
<p>I do not have any quantitative data suggesting Cornell engineers are any less competent. I have my personal experience working very closely (in lab, research, section, lecture, and office hours) with a wide variety of Cornell engineers. I think that suffices with regard to formulating an opinion. I also don't believe employers are aware of this reality and, as you state, it probably doesn't affect Cornell engineering's reputation. For the record, I was continually truly shocked by the lack of intellectual ability showcased by some of my classmates. I could not have predicted that. Yet, I also worked with some extremely intelligent and industrious people (many of which helped me attain very good grades in hands-on work where I'm not quite as adept). It works both ways. I just didn't envision any of the mind boggling sort to exist at Cornell.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Dontno is a pretty bright person, but he tends to exhibit a condescension towards others who might hold a different opinion or experience than his own. Frankly, it's not the first time I've seen it in a Cornell engineer, and it certainly won't be the last. Unfortunately it doesn't appear that many of these schools teach tact.
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<p>Thanks for the compliment. I do admit I am acerbic and sometimes antagonistic in arguing. I enjoy discourse and sometimes the content of my statements take precedence over their tone.</p>
<p>"Nice argument from authority!"
??? I wasn't making an argument, it just seemed to me that somebody who thinks a group of people who most people consider pretty bright to be idiots must be pretty darned smart. My daughter feels that way about most people, and she's got a humongous IQ.</p>
<p>"I do not have any quantitative data suggesting Cornell engineers are any less competent."</p>
<p>In that event, readers will give all due weight appropriate to your expressed opinion based on your anecdotal, non-statistically significant experience with a small sample of one, but not both, of the relevant groups being compared.</p>
<p>WishWash - I think you can bring your GPA up a bit and you may try and score well on your SAT2 tests. Score 5 (or at least 4) on your AP tests, write great essays ... your EC are good. Since you are a writer and write novels, consider writing a novel wher the central theme or characters relate to the hotel industry ... I can go on but you get the point. A lot can be done between now and Jan 1 next year. I wouldn't worry too much about whether it is possible to get into Cornell with your current stats ... I would focus on what is realistically achievable in the available time to strengthen your resume. Good luck.</p>
<p>@ monydad:</p>
<p>I don't feel like explainig what I meant when I said "argument from authority."</p>
<p>The strength of the students is a myth. That's my point. Let me clarify something briefly. The people I refer to as "dumb" or "utterly stupid" are nothing of the sort. I use those terms relatively. i use those term with relation to who I believe is worthy of attending a top-flight, prestigious, Ivy League engineering program. At a decent state school, these people would probably be in the honors program or something, but at Cornell, I find them unqualified.</p>
<p>And to be honest, a significant majority of the utterly clueless (maybe a more appropriate term than dumb) engineering students I encountered were females (maybe 65-70% of the clueless were female). Thus, it's logical to conclude that a significant majority of individuals accepted on their own merit (which of course includes females) are up to Cornell standards. To substantiate this, I've noted almost every single foreign born student to be top notch. (Well I just mentioned affirmative action, I can hear the rumblings of anger coming my way!)</p>
<p>Everyone knows that girls are accepted to these programs at much higher rates than boys, without any merit besides having a vagina. I don't think anyone could seriously question that.</p>
<p>Dontno, you graduated from engineering with summa honors? That's very impressive.</p>
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[quote]
Everyone knows that girls are accepted to these programs at much higher rates than boys, without any merit besides having a vagina. I don't think anyone could seriously question that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Like the way you put that.</p>
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Dontno, you graduated from engineering with summa honors? That's very impressive.
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<p>Thank you. It was a lot of hard work. Cornell might have dumb kids, but they sure offer a challenging curriculum. That's really one of the things I loved about Cornell. They don't dumb down the material. They make one earn his grades and if one has accomplished high marks, it has meaning.</p>
<p>"The strength of the students is a myth. That's my point."</p>
<p>and my point is:
- Where there is data, there is less room for myth, or reliance of unnormed, subjective characterization by persons of potentially unreliable personal standards of observation.</p>
<p>I have posted data relating to the capabilities of cornell engineers. That data describes the actual population, not some statistically insignificant sample from which you are making pronouncements about the actual population. It is freely available. People can read that and evaluate it, and decide for themselves whether that student body is "stupid", or less qualified, as compared to others where there is also data. Without needing to rely on your attempts to characterize two populations via your unnormed, statistically insignificant sample of only one of them.</p>
<p>Your anecdotal experience pertaining to only one group means, frankly, nothing. Show me the data. Then there will be no need for your subjective characterizations.</p>
<p>If based on the data, the population of Cornell engineering students is "stupid" in some evaluator's opinion, so be it. The data is there. Words are imprecise and subjective. Data is better.</p>
<p>This thread on all front is very disturbing. </p>
<p>We have someone that's still concerned about every school's stat after he/she has been going to a top tier school for 2 years. The reason behind it may be afraid the school he/she is attending could drop its ranking, therefore invalidate his/her intelligence.</p>
<p>We have people stating the only reason girls get into engineering program is because they have vagina. The same thing may be true for guys getting into college now. In order to maintain 50-50 split between boys-girls in many liberal arts school, requirements have to be lowed for boys. This is certainly a turn around when girls didn't go to college many years ago (before my time). </p>
<p>On this thread people are arguing about which school is better, how stupid someone is because he couldn't do certain equations, and by allowing those people in your school dilutes the quality of your school. In the real life, you will encounter those stupid people everyday. How well you deal with those stupid people will have a direct impact on your career. I have the best technologist working for me that money could buy, and also some very good developers. Most of them are smarter than me, but they would never sit in my seat because they have no people sense, and are often too arrogant for their own good. The ability to bring people to work together as a team is valued above all others, doesn't matter if you are an engineer, doctor, researcher, lawyer...</p>
<p>This may be contrary to what most posters on this thread would believe, but I encourage my daughter to spend more time to make friends at Cornell than to get a 4.0 GPA(she maintains a 3.6 to qualify for some of those internships). Connections she makes at Cornell will last her a life time, formulas she memorizes in class may never be used. A good college education is to teach her how to be accepting of everyone, not to just know how to deal with the top 5% of population.</p>
<p>I wouldn't waste you time responding to a bitter, socially inept recent alum with an inflated ego. </p>
<p>:rolleyes:</p>
<p>Urban</a> Dictionary: socially awkward
Urban</a> Dictionary: Socially Retarded
[quote]
Usually occurs in males. Excessive internet use is also a dominant cause.
[/quote]
</p>