I'm posting it a second time as need to talk to DD over the break about Expenses!!

Parents Forum
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<p>My post: *I have a MIL who was raised in boarding schools and was quite spoiled. She never had to do things she didn’t like doing…hence she decided that she didn’t like cooking and never did. Her kids were raised on the worst diet ever…processed foods and take-out. Every single one of her kids has a serious auto-immune disease of some kind. I don’t know if eating the crap they did contributed, but…who knows… Someone never told my MIL that adults have to sometimes do things that they don’t like doing.
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<p>POIH response: * But you are not complaining about your FIL not cooking and providing all the nourishing diet to those children. Why this gender stereo type? It is fine for boys to not like cooking and eat out as some day they will get married and have some one to cook food for them. Then why not DD will find some one who will be good at work outside but also be a good cook and he will be cooking good food for her and the children.
Why it is expected of DD to learn it but not the boys?</p>

<p>Both DW and I are good cook and don’t mind cooking at all. She will also hopefully learn to cook but why it is fine for boys her age not to learn but she has too. *</p>

<p>WHERE did I EVER say that “It is fine for boys to not like cooking and eat out as some day they will get married and have some one to cook food for them.” You totally made that inference up out of whole cloth. That kind of straw man argument is really beneath you.</p>

<p>Are you suggesting that I was gender stereotyping because I would expect my MIL to cook for her kids, and I made no mention of my FIL doing so?</p>

<p>Well…first of all, my FIL was a self-employed man who worked 60+ hours a week, rarely taking a day off. Never taking a vacation, because they needed every dime to support the family…they had a modest income. My MIL didn’t work outside the home (common for their generation since they were born in the 1920s). So, should my FIL prepared the family meals once he came home very late every night? Were the kids supposed to go hungry until then??? </p>

<p>My story isn’t gender stereotyping…**the same expectation would have existed if the situation had been reversed…with the mom working constant overtime, while the dad stays home. ** By trying to make this into some sexist issue, you leaped over the point…and that point was that adults (male AND female) have to learn how to do things that they don’t like doing…whether the adult is male or female. That is part of life for those of us who aren’t trust fund babies.</p>

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<p>jym626: I got your point and the Jan - Mar does include the CC payment which might be vacation spending.
I don’t want to ask her because if she is already being responsible then it will just make her think I’m not trusting her with the money.
During the first semester she was on the lower side of the expenses. But because of the CC payment she comes to be on the higher side.
I wanted to just make sure that my upper limit is good enough for Boston and if I’ve to talk to her then what should be the best way.</p>

<p>But it seems she is doing fine and I might not need to bring the question at all.</p>

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<p>This strikes me as a lot. What kind of entertainment are you thinking about? What does she regularly engage in? Does she go to the theater, concerts, etc. every weekend? Are you OK if she can’t go to everything she wants to, or has to make choices?</p>

<p>I find it hard to believe that most college students, even in Boston, spend that amount per month just on weekend entertainment.</p>

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If you feel this way, what was your hope in starting this thread? I am truly confused. Regardless of whether you are now feeling reassured that she may be handling her finances adequately, I am a firm believer that it is ALWAYS helpful to talk openly to our kids about finances, investments, savings, spending, etc. For example, younger s recently brought up that he was dismayed that the interest rate of his online savings account was dropping, and he wanted to perhaps buy a short term CD. It gave me the opportunity to explain that tying up money when the interest rates are low is not usually a good idea, and that if he looked around at the interest rates on short term (6-12 mo) CDs, they were probably not much diffferent than what he is getting for his savings account. And that while the rate may continue to drop, it could also possibly go up, which he would miss if he tied up money in a CD at this time. He then asked about stock investrments. I suggested he and my H could talk more about this over spring break, as dad is definitely better at this than I am.</p>

<p>So we now have the oppty to talk about about investments etc over spring break, and part of the conversation may involve budgeting, financial goals (short/long term) etc. I am thrilled that he wants to talk more about this. It is perfect timing as he is looking into off-campus housing next year, this very minute as I type, and we will be able to discuss what his needs/expectations will be for living expenses next year. I had to send him his checkbook in order to pay deposits (he was doing all banking on line so hadn’t bothered to take his ckbook this year) and I discovered that he was not using a check ledger to write down the checks (check number/date/amount/payee) but was just watching his balance on line since he wrote few checks and did mostly ATM and online billpay. He thinks I am a bit of a dinosaur for manually writing cks in the ck ledger and balancing it at the end of the month. More for us to talk about over spring break!</p>

<p>I see it as my opportunity and my responsibility to teach my kids financial management. We just plant the seeds-- they take it from there.</p>

<p>Older s was in town for a day this weekend. When I drove him to the airport yesterday (he is doing volunteer work in Honduras) we talked about his Morgan Stanley and Vanguard stock accounts that he has opened on his own. He wanted me to know that DH and I are his beneficiaries, should anything happen to him. He mentioned that DS#2 was a beneficiary on one of his other accounts-- just to balance things out, he said. It was an unusual conversatin to have with my 23 yr old son, but it made me very proud, and I feel we helped him to learn a lot about financial management. You will enjoy the same wonderful feeling.</p>

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<p>My D is responsible for all her incidental expenses - books/materials, food, clothing, entertainment, using her own money. I don’t participate in her spending decisions in any way except to tell her when her credit card bill has come. She then goes on-line, checks the transactions, and pays. I file the paper bill at home, out of habit, I guess. I just looked back at her old bills, and $750/month, while generous, doesn’t seem completely out of line to me. What I notice also is that there are peaks and valleys in spending - much more at the beginning of the semester when she is buying books, stocking her larder, and adding to her TechCash card. </p>

<p>She was originally averse to cooking but had to learn to do it as a survival technique and now enjoys it. It’s most fun to cook with a partner. She was part of a cooking co-op for quite a while but now cooks on her own or with a friend. We were very concerned about her nutrition her first year, but she now eats very healthily. When she got a single after freshman year we bought her a small refrigerator and got her set up with some cooking essentials, including a couple of good knives. She has since purchased an inexpensive blender and rice cooker and a couple of good cookbooks. A friend of ours gave her a panini-maker for Christmas this year, and that has been a terrific addition. </p>

<p>I estimate about $250/month at the grocery store, and I see charges about once or twice a week for take-out or eating out, generally under $10. Plus I know that she is using TechCash mostly for food, so maybe another $100-150/month for MIT-provided food. Maybe an extra $50/month for transportation (the T) and entertainment, because except for the occasional movie she and her friends generally find their entertainment on campus. So - at a maximum $550/month for everything but books.</p>

<p>About cooking - it’s not a gender thing, and while you may find it enjoyable, that is not the primary reason to become proficient. The food you cook for yourself will probably be healthier, and it will certainly be cheaper, than what you can buy. The good news is that if you can follow directions in a lab, you can learn to cook. My D is the third generation of women who have discovered this by experience.</p>

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<p>POIH, I don’t know your daughter, but MOST people have an innate desire to hang on to what they have. This has been proven time and time again in psychological studies – people are very loss-averse. </p>

<p>So if a person has a bank account with $10,000 in it, and they want to go on a vacation that will cost $2000 – you might think that the person would simply think “cool, I’m rich, I’ll just write a check right now.” But actually, because of way people’s brains work, it usually works in reverse. The person with $10K in the bank gets very attached to that $10K – they start to think of it as their personal nest egg and get very dismayed if the balance falls to a mere 4 figures. Meanwhile, people who have nothing often charge up their credit cards and spend beyond their means, because – having nothing, there is no fear of loss, and they rationalize to themselves that they will earn the money and easily be able to pay it off later. </p>

<p>So you have definitely been right to have your daughter make her own credit card payments from her account – that keeps it very real for her. I am sure she has already experienced the shock that happens to us all when the credit card bill arrives and is higher than we expected. </p>

<p>There are some people who don’t seem to have this hoarding instinct – kids, and adults, who will find a way to spend every cent that comes their way, who think --“whoa! I’ve got $100 – let’s go shopping!” … but that’s not how most of us tick. </p>

<p>I do think that it can be counter-productive to give your d. too much, because then she doesn’t have to worry about her internal desire to maintain the balance. She’s got (hypothetically), $10,000 in her savings account and can spend whatever she wants, because even with lavish expenditures, the money daddy sends is enough to cover it all and that $10K sits in the bank earning its 0.5% interest or whatever pittance the banks pay on savings these days. </p>

<p>So my point is – even if she has abundant savings, the fact that it is her money she has to dig into if she goes over budget, as opposed to someone else’s money – will generally be at least a mild deterrent. She’ll still spend, but she will apply her internal sense of value to what she spends. </p>

<p>Totally different question: has she ever held a paying job? (I can understand why a parent might not want a kid at MIT to have to hold down a job on top of school – MIT has a reputation for being pretty demanding – but I’m just wondering if any part of her savings is earned money, perhaps from summer jobs).</p>

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<p>For those of you who think my D’s food bill sounds excessive, keep in mind that here in California we expect to eat fresh fruits, vegetables, salad every day. Good quality bread and cheese. No living on hot dogs or mac and cheese here! Transfer that mind-set to Boston, and your grocery bills go way up. My D came into the local Safeway with me over the holiday break and went nuts over the quality of the produce and the low prices. And I generally don’t buy produce at Safeway as there is much better to be had… The weekly produce market at MIT has truly been a godsend.</p>

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<p>Hey, OT … POIH, my nephew just got accepted to MIT today. He is rather well-to-do. If he decides to attend (he is waiting on other acceptances), I’ll get him set up with your D :-)</p>

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<p>But she does not like to cook, and so she eats out. Which is different from buying fresh fruit, etc… ,and far more expensive and not necessarily more nutritious.</p>

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<p>Good thread, though prone to pontificating. My D did her spring break with her gospel choir, $50 for 5 days in New Orleans, which was primarily about community service and habitat for humanity, but still a good deal. Unfortunately, D has "asthma’, and while there, had to get two prescriptions filled, for which she paid $90. This was in spite of me texting a word-for-word script , to avoid getting “ripped off’”, which she did not follow. Now she has almost zero left for the rest of the semester, and I don’t know if I should subsidize. Next semester she will be in New York with no meal plan and no kitchen. I’m hoping this is a learning opportunity, and will follow your thread.</p>

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<p>Just thought I’d add my 2 cents on the amount. I personally think that $750 is high – I’d suggest $600 a month, which would still be quite generous. But I also stand by my feeling that it should be what the parent is comfortable with. Although I think $750 is high, it is not outrageously high. And if you go lower than an amount that you personally feel is adequate, you’ll be tempted to supplement, which will defeat the purpose. </p>

<p>You may actually be providing an added incentive for your d. to save with that amount. I’m not saying that you should give it to her for that reason – I’m just saying that if a kid is getting $300 monthly from their parents, they probably think in terms of just getting to the end of the month with that amount. But a kid getting $750 might start thinking in terms of how much they can save each month out of that $750 for some future desired purchase. </p>

<p>That’s not altogether a bad thing. You say you trust your daughter, and if she is likely to spend wisely – for example, use her savings to travel to interesting places, or to finance an unfunded internship if she would otherwise be expected to work over the summer, or even if she decides to include a monthly donation of $100 to charity in her budget – those are all part of money management skills that are useful to have. </p>

<p>But I do think that once you decide on a set amount, then you should let her manage things and not monitor her account balances or ask her how she’s doing financially. Just let her know you are always open to talking about finances if she runs into any problems, and then give her a little room to make her own mistakes – and hope they are small mistakes . The mistakes are a learning experience, so we as parents really need to give our kids room to make a few. And if you decide on an amount like $750, then you are definitely giving her enough to have room for mistakes.</p>

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<p>calmom:

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<p>All of her money during high school was from summer internship/job and prize money from science/math competitions.</p>

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<p>PizzaGirl:

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<p>Congrats!, cool yup! I think they’ll have fun.</p>

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<p>Shrinkrap:#210
Yes, I think every parent find themselves in the same boat sooner and later with respect to their children finances.
It is good to have a feeling of what is a modest if not outrageous allowance because you don’t want to make your children unnecessary feel hardship and you don’t want to spoil them too.</p>

<p>That is what the main purpose of the thread.</p>

<p>I got the point that it might be helpful in making DD learn about budgeting if I put a fixed amount every month to her checking account and let her manage the finances without replenishing the funds in between.</p>

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<p>Actually, I think a little hardship is a good thing. You learn more from the bumps then you do from a paved road.</p>

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<p>Kathiep:^^^ Not necessarily. I won’t second that.</p>

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<p>POIH - I did not read the whole thread.
There are many variables in the cost for foods. If your D eats steaks, salmon, seafoods in a sit down restaurant then it costs more than eating salad, pasta,… in a convenience store. I think you need to ask her what she really eats each day before you can know what should be the budget. I think the important point is she does not waste. It takes time to learn and balance budget for the young people who did not have hardship. I agree with some other people saying that boys are thrifty than girls.</p>

<p>My son cooks and does not spend much. But my D spends more on drinks and social activities in HS. One think you might need to watch: drinking wine in restaurant. One glass costs $7.</p>

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Careful about setting up relatives with girls with expensive taste who don’t like to cook :)</p>

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<p>“I got the point that it might be helpful in making DD learn about budgeting if I put a fixed amount every month to her checking account and let her manage the finances without replenishing the funds in between.”
give it a try… At first kids who have never been told “no” may balk a little, but as she gets comfortable and finds others kids at MIT who are on a budget, she will learn that life doesn’t end if she has to mind her pennies too, and years from now, she WILL thank you for not spoiling her.</p>

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<p>Lol, jym. He’d be used to it since that’s his mother :-).</p>