<p>numbers do matter. period.
but i think they give you some break(maybe up to 100pts?) for SATs and esp. for SATI... but not so much for gpa. because if you have relatively low gpa compared to your peers in your school but really high SAT scores, that just shows that you are smart but lazy and Im sure they don't want lazy ppl.
for top tiers Im pretty sure they look at your numbers first and then look at your essays and ECs...(including passion)
in my case, my gpa was really high up till junior year, and SATI in one seating was 2020.(SATII-two 800s and one 730) I wrote reeeeally good essays for apps and ECs showed my passion. but i think my senior year messed me up. same # of APs as my junior year(no improvement i guess? though i took two college classes online) and some Bs... dammit. and it suckss</p>
<p>result:
-reject from: all ivys that i applied to(brown, cornell, upenn, harvard), and johns hopkins
-accepted from: UCB, UCLA, USC(w/ some$$), UCSD, UCI, Wellesley, UOP(5 yr accelerated pharmacy program)</p>
<p>so i could say all the top-tier schools(reach schools) rejected me.-only got into my matches/safeties..</p>
<p>oh yea, international living in the states by the way.</p>
<p>A large reason I got into the school I did was because of all that other good stuff. I can safely say that my stats do either bring them down or are in the middle. They took me for who I am, not what a piece of paper says I scored on a test (although its not like it's that low lol). I got rejected from many schools at its level and some below it. (It's an Ivy)</p>
<p>And saying that senior grades don't count is complete bs. I was just an average Honors student before my senior year. Then senior year I exceled at everything. Like in my AP classes 2nd quarter I got AP Stats: 97 AP US History:99 and AP Lit: 100. I am positive those had a large effect on my application. ALONG WITH A LOT OF LUCK (and ec's lol)! (And the best letter of recommendation EVER from my English teacher. I mean it was GREAT! Getting an English teacher to write a recommendation is so good because they have a way with words. She wrote everything that a college could want and I'm getting her flowers for that lol)</p>
<p>I'm glad a thread was started about this because it's true. The advice peddled all over these boards is that rank doesn't matter, SAT's don't matter, etc. A 2400/Val has maybe a 10% shot at getting into Yale while a 1400 with the ambiguous distinction of "showing passion" has a much better shot. We all know that is BS.</p>
<p>It's true that not just being a valedictorian or just having a 2350+ will help. I'm proof as I was one of those kids with great test scores and a lower GPA. I was accepted to a 3 top privates and a couple of Ivies but rejected everywhere else. I listened to that silly advice about spending more time raising money for the quiz bowl team rather than studying for AP Chem like I should have. </p>
<p>Having really strong academics will get you into Ivies, period. This means a rank in the top 5 of your class, SAT score of 2300+ if you're Asian or a white male, 2200+ if you're female and white, 2000+ if you're a URM. SAT II's must be also balanced (700+ in math, science, humanities subject tests). Now HYPSM are a total crapshoot and you need luck and decent to awesome EC's to get in. Otherwise, just strong academics will get you into the other Ivies and schools of comparable caliber and maybe into HYPSM. Whereas the other kids who get in on EC's alone may not be providing the whole picture or may just be exceptionally lucky. Take those stories with a grain of salt and keep hitting the textbooks. At least there are guaranteed returns with great stats.</p>
<p>I hope you guys are right about this URM stuff. I'm waiting on a decision from USC and it's absolutely killing me because out of the four schools I applied to it's my number 1 by far (And if I don't get in there then I totally wasted money I could've gotten for my National Achievement finalist statis elsewhere).</p>
<p>For the people who posted that numbers don't matter, do you fall into any of the following categories:
1) URM--I'm Asian.
2) legacy--my parents didn't go to college in America, but plenty of kids are in the same situation.
3) recruited athlete--not an athlete by any means.
4) people applying in the arts--no...
5) people with lopsided SAT scores (ie 800+600=1400)--710/700 (rather low by top tier-standards)
6) women applying in engineering/technical fields--Never.</p>
<p>"I don't care. I will accomplish so much more than some of the "geniuses" at Harvard. I know I'm not merely "above averege" and that I could thrive at an extremely competitive university. I don't need a 2400 to know that. You are very ignorant to think that I'm averege because of my 1920. I go to a French HS which is EXTREMELY competitive and difficult. I just got into the best university in France. SATs are not part of the French system and for good reason. I will make a change and I don't need Ivys (or similar schools) for that -- but it could have been helpful."</p>
<p>I love the part when someone (in this case, me) says something that the OP doesn't like, and the OP then goes on a megalomaniacal rant. Classic.</p>
<p>Well, I take your point about some other kid working hard for 4 years and a person like me only working hard for 2.5 years. </p>
<p>Still, I have a 4.0/4.0 uw 4.9/5w gpa-the highest in my class. This is the 2nd time I've gotten it (I'm a junior) If you discount the years when I sucked, I would be Val. I've taken the hardest honors classes, the most Ap classes in my school and I am pretty good with all the other stuff needed for an App (Sat, EC's etc.) I'm working my butt off and am moving up the ladder, but my rank is still only 22/365.</p>
<p>I am working hard, but I guess other kids have been working just as hard longer. Still, I don't think the first 3 semesters of high school really show what I can do.</p>
<p>But I guess an adcom with little time on their hands will look at it the way you did and say too bad. Thanks for being blunt.</p>
<p>Jpps, you are pretentious. If you truly believe that all students who score low on standardized tests are "merely above-average," you are seriously mistaken. Standardized tests only measure a small portion of one's knowledge/ability, and in extremely restricted capacities. I can tell you that, when taking the tests in the time allotted, I scored a mediocre score. However, when I took the test outside of the testing circumstances, untimed and without anxiety, I answered nearly every question correctly. Now, you cannot tell me that I am "merely above-average."</p>
<p>Ya shark that is very similar to my situation. My freshman year I was like like...ok...I'm just gonna get high 80s. My sophomore year I did like 93 average. My junior year a woman from spain came to teach spanish and...well my class had a failing average (obviously not me, but my grade was not good lol). Now its senior year and I easily have over a 100 average weighted and about a 96 and 97 average the 1st two quarters (wit a load of APs). Colleges DO see improvement and recognize it. I hate that I was bad earlier, but hey I'm doing really well now and I'm never gonna stop.</p>
<p>And anxious is right. In my interview from Brown that was actually one of the things that we talked about (in the way that anxious is talking about it)</p>
<p>standardized tests are <strong><em>ING USELESS. You dont have to hear it from us about how much *</em></strong>** standardized tests are, you can go to Fairtest.org and read about it yourself. And if you stick to your guns about how important and awesome standardized tests are, you clearly have social and character flaws. </p>
<p>Well, I could defend 24 like crazy, but I havn't even seen Lost. I should see it first and then tell you that 24 kicks the crap out of Lost. (lol jk)</p>
<p>If you would just ask any admissions officer at ANY institution they explicitly tell you in order or preference what matters. First and foremost are grades, usually second r SATs and the other stuff in various orders. Of course that isn't the end all be all of their decision, but surely you can't not have known that these were the most important ( unless you didn't speak to any admissions officers or just really don't pay attention.)</p>
<p>NYU can be picky because it has man, many applicants, so they can pay attention to stats. Ditto with UC schools, where in-state kids are clamoring to go.</p>
<p>If the numbers were true, I would have gotten into all my safties, and matches. I did not, although I did get into about half my reaches.</p>
<p>"Jpps, you are pretentious. If you truly believe that all students who score low on standardized tests are "merely above-average," you are seriously mistaken. Standardized tests only measure a small portion of one's knowledge/ability, and in extremely restricted capacities. I can tell you that, when taking the tests in the time allotted, I scored a mediocre score. However, when I took the test outside of the testing circumstances, untimed and without anxiety, I answered nearly every question correctly. Now, you cannot tell me that I am "merely above-average.""</p>
<p>Try reading the whole thread.</p>
<p>The fact that the OP has very low test scores for the schools to which he applied, combined with his 3.7/3.9 GPA (3.7 UW is good until the weighted is 3.9...which means he has not been taking too many honours/APs/IBs) leave me the impression that he is merely above-average. Why does everyone always have to generalize a post about a specific situation?</p>
<p>Seriously...the kid has a 1900, doesn't even have a 4.0 weighted, and is complaining about being rejected at schools like Harvard and Brown? Then he goes on a rant, saying he will accomplish more than those "so-called geniuses" at Ivies, and claims that his school is "extremely" competitive (yet his weighted GPA is only .2 higher than his unweighted GPA). Give me a break. You must be seriously disillusioned to think that "numbers don't matter" to the point that a 1900 and 3.7/3.9 make you a competitive Ivy candidate.</p>
<p>for once an insightful comment from jpps. No offense, but someone with a moderately good grasp of english(not gangster talk) and math should be able to score over 2000.</p>