<p>i'm going to be a sophomore in the fall. i asked a professor for a research position and he says since I'm only a sophomore I have to do the basics such as cleaning and stuff. Is that still considered research experience and will I most likely move on to more advanced stuff later? Also, if all i'm doing is cleaning stuff how is that going to benefit me at all? I'm an engineering major and I don't see the benefits of cleaning. Also, if i accept this offer, would'nt i be spending most of my time alone, thus not being able to build a relationship with the professor and getting a good LOR? He wants me to respond soon, Idk why, so if you guys can give me some quick opinions thatd be great as i'm completely clueless.</p>
<p>As a sophomore, he is right - you simply are not yet qualified to do any real work in the lab. If he is paying you, then he can reasonably ask you to do something worth his money, and at your level of knowledge, that is basically cleaning and other scut work. No, this by itself does not count as research, and you really don’t want him to write a LOR for you if this is all you ever do for him.</p>
<p>You really want to try to find something that will expand your knowledge and position you for a real research position in the next year or so. That COULD be this job, depending on whether or not you are ONLY going to be cleaning. It is reasonable for him to ask you to take care of things like that, if he is paying you or if he is in some way mentoring you and training you to do real lab work.</p>
<p>I would ask him for more information about the position. Tell him up front what you are looking for, and make sure he understand (and that you do too) that you are not above wiping down tables and mopping floors if that progresses to calibrating instruments and eventually running tests and such. If it is straight up cleaning, with no other prospects, then tell him no and look elsewhere.</p>
<p>The “please respond soon” is probably because you are not the only person asking.</p>
<p>I think it’s a test, you know, Mr. Miyagi style. If he’s actually being serious though, he probably means dishwashing. You probably won’t be scrubbing floors or taking out trash. They usually leave that for the actual janitors. </p>
<p>I would take the job. It can’t hurt (unless you break a glass beaker and it stabs you in the eye.) If you don’t like it and you see it’s going nowhere, then you can always quit. But if you turn it down now you’ll never know.</p>
<p>It’s like a test of willingness and/or persistence/hardwork. </p>
<p>They don’t have any project that they are willing to give if you don’t have skill required. But to get skills they have to teach you. But why spend the time to teach lab skills to a person that MIGHT not be serious and MIGHT leave? Reason being, it’s a cold hard truth that there are undergrads who leave lab they said they are committed in due to “oh i didnt know its this hard” or “research is not that fun im quitting”. I believe you are not this type of undergrad but the prof doesn’t know. </p>
<p>Therefore they make it a win-win situation: You showing hardwork for even cleaning stuff <shows that you’re dedicated, and they get cleanings done (clean lab DO help, btw). THEN they will start to teach you engineering skills.</p>
<p>When I was in my first undergrad research lab (biotech), all I first couple weeks was cleaning glasses in dishwasher. They liked how all dishwasher is always empty and everything is in order that they told me to make buffers and gels. They saw that I was good with my hand and started to give me some basic tasks like DNA extraction and PCR. They liked my data and in couple months they gave me a 1 year project and make me co author.</p>
<p>I disagree with the posters above, I think it’s a waste of time if you spend your free time cleaning a lab as a “volunteer” (if they’re offering to pay you, disregard everything I say here – then it’s a part-time job, and perfectly reasonable). Calling it “the basics” is just misleading - it has nothing to do with research at all - are you meant to graduate from introductory beaker washing to more advanced topics like “working the autoclave”? 
[which is also not real research, albeit necessary in a lab]</p>
<p>The way I see it, if you do take the position and go on cleaning for free, eventually you’ll probably move on to help others with research and maybe do some research on your own in a year or two. But think about the timing - by then, you’ll probably be qualified enough from courses/etc for other professors (or that professor) to take you on for research-related work anyways, without having to go through this. I don’t know what type of university you’re at (i.e. how big, how many labs, etc), but at mine (major research one), the majority of juniors were able to get real research positions, and a large number of sophs too (and some freshmen - although that doesn’t happen too often). There might also be research-oriented courses at your school where you spend a term/year working in a lab.</p>
<p>it’s unpaid, i still haven’t made sure what he exact meant by my duties. He said I wasn’t deep enough into mechanical engineering that I need to do some basics which “might” include cleaning and such. It was really vague and doesn’t seem right for a professor to send something so vague and want a immediate response. I don’t wanna waste time, but I also don’t want to turn down a potentially beneficial position. I asked for an unpaid position b/c i was afraid he’d auto reject me if I wanted to get paid. He knows my goals which is to get into a top 10 grad school. Would a professor intentionally screw you over like that and waste your time? this whole situation is confusing. I’m afraid if I decline there won’t be another position available.</p>
<p>i sent him an email asking if I will move on to more advanced research stuff as I progress. wait for a response i guess</p>
<p>edit-I remember awhile back I was reading someone asking if cleaning was considered research and a guy responded yes. like let’s say you spend half a year in a lab cleaning, then 2 1/2 years helping w/ research in same lab. can you right research experience in ____ for 3 years? or would the 1/2 year make minimal diff?</p>
<p>yes, I think you are right, you’d just say 3 yrs, and I’d take it as an entry position. If you find it won’t be leading to any further lab work (and that seems unlikely unless you are found wnating) then move on next semester/summer. Too bad you didn’t discuss paid or unpaid possibilities too.</p>
<p>Well if they ask you just to clean stuff for more than 3 months without even giving you autoclave job then it’s unreasonable, but my point is starting off with cleaning for a couple weeks IS normal for someone without any experience.</p>
<p>It’s not all that bad - while you’re doing cleaning stuff you can ask other lab resident (grad students/post doc/senior undergrad) what they are doing, and they might be able to teach you about their project. This way you learn some skills along the way and you build relationship with soon-to-be-your-lab-mates, and you will become more trusted in the lab.</p>
<p>About those sophomores given projects - maybe somehow they have done some advanced lab course/research/intern before? We don’t know this, but if you’re a sophomore and this is your first research experience then not given any project and deal with cleaning stuff for a couple of weeks is normal.</p>
<p>If you’re asked to just clean stuff for 1/2 years, or even 3 months then just quit seriously, it’s called abuse.</p>
<p>I started cleaning glassware, and after expressing my interest in being more involved in research to the people in the lab, I was given additional duties. It took a couple of months before this happened, but I worked really hard and always showed up on time even when I had basic duties. If you really show them you mean business, and they have the resources to have you conduct research, you should be “promoted” from your normal duties. HOWEVER, sometimes labs specifically hire you for a job and don’t have the intention/resources/whatever to allow you to do research (I was explicitly told this at one interview, so I immediately crossed that off my list). As others have mentioned, if after a semester (2 months minimum) you still aren’t getting more responsibilities then I would leave.</p>
<p>Yeah, i’ll give it a go. Also I was looking on the webpage I think the youngest person they have right now is a senior undergrad. I asked the professor who was the youngest and he said I would be the youngest to be working in the lab. I thought he was pretty cool and didn’t seem like the type that would intentionally “use” students, but his emails are pretty confusing, it almost feels like he’s foreign when he emails me something. also when I emailed him I asked if I will be moving on to more advanced stuff as I acquire more experience. Would he think i’m being rash asking that before I even started anything yet?</p>
<p>I don’t expect he will think you rash so much as naive - which is fine. Many professors have trouble communicating effectively, and what seems obvious or implied to them may not seem that way to others. Take the job, it sounds like a good start. You will probably have cleaning and similar duties for as long as you are the most junior person in the lab, but you should gradually get more responsibilities and opportunities.</p>
<p>The longer you hang around the lab, the more you’ll pick up. Even if you’re just dishwashing, if you show up every day on time, they’ll see you’re dedicated. And if you do it with a willing attitude, it just gives a better impression. Don’t hesitate to ask for more responsibilities once he gets to know you more. Finish everything early and ask if there’s anything else you can don. Show him you’re really interested in the research and it’ll be noticed.</p>
<p>Email one of the other students in the lab and see if you can talk to them in person while asking them to give you a tour of your lab. They’ll know more about working in that group than any of us here, and they’re usually really honest unlike the professor who might see things through rose-tinted glasses. Maybe they also started research by cleaning in that lab. </p>
<p>Ask them if the professor, in general, allows students to work on things they want. If so, it would seem likely that you can get a real research project after a month or two. You can even tell them your specific concerns and what the professor told you.</p>
<p>Oh yeah, definitely show up every day. What I did was arrive in the morning (7-8 AM), do cleaning, study before class, go class, come back, do homework/study/clean stuff in between, class etc, then go home/gym after 5PM.</p>
<p>oops I forgot to mention the schedule. It seems kinda short to me. mondays, wednesdays, and fridays from 9-11:30. it’s only 7 1/2 hours a week</p>
<p>The professor is probably concerned that too much time (a) might interfere with your studies and (b) might also interfere with the operation of the rest of the lab - remember that anything you do that is NOT cleaning (which is presumably <= 7.5 hours a week) will require someone else’s time as well, and they just might not have that much time to give.</p>
<p>The 3 days I’ll be at the lab are the days I have the least classes. I think he took my workload into consideration or it could be a coincidence, but i’m not complaining.</p>
<p>What kind of lab is it btw?</p>
<p>If it’s a chem lab you might have a lot of glassware to wash.</p>
<p>If it’s a bio lab there’ll hardly be any glassware but you may have to work with biohazards.</p>
<p>its a laser&plasma diagnostics lab for Mechanical Engineering majors. I actually went for a tour to see what research they’re conducting couple weeks back. Only saw grad students there when I went, some physicists finishing their PHD works in the lab too along with Mech engineers</p>