<p>I see that high percentages of Dartmouth students belong to fraternities or sororities.</p>
<p>How does that affect student life at Dartmouth? Do these groups have a big impact and, if so, what does that look like?</p>
<p>How comfortable are students who aren't part of one of those organizations?</p>
<p>I just came across this article: [Confessions</a> of an Ivy League Frat Boy: Inside Dartmouth’s Hazing Abuses | Culture News | Rolling Stone](<a href=“http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/confessions-of-an-ivy-league-frat-boy-inside-dartmouths-hazing-abuses-20120328]Confessions”>Dartmouth’s Hazing Abuses: Confessions of an Ivy League Frat Boy – Rolling Stone)</p>
<p>It’s very disturbing.</p>
<p>Can someone with first hand experience weigh in?</p>
<p>momfromme, there are many threads on this. The article posted above has many many inaccuracies, and the author has been disproven. My D is a '14 at DM, and she is in a sorority. She loves it, and her experience with greek life has been only positive. She has many friends in all different houses, and not one of them experienced anything remotely like what you have read. Pledging at DM is very similar to pledging at any other top ranked school with a greek system. My D also has many many non affiliated friends. There are so many clubs and organizations at DM, and her independent friends love DM just as much as she does. However, Hanover is a small town, and a lot of the parties on campus are in greek houses. What is different about DM is all parties are open, and everyone can go, whether they are independent or in a different house. That is actually a huge advantage of the greek system at DM. Be ready, there are a couple of posters that are going to bombard you with links that are frightening. Myself, and other parents, will tell you that this is not the DM we know and love, and not our experience at all.</p>
<p>MomFromme:</p>
<p>The “Greek system” at Dartmouth IS disturbing, and you should be disturbed.</p>
<p>Dartmouth Presidents McLaughlin, Freedman, and Wright all sought to eliminate the College’s fraternities; the faculty are nearly unanimously in favor of extirpating them; and their dysfunctions and outrages have been documented time and again.</p>
<p>At some point you may have seen a horror movie where the protagonist senses that something on the scene is not right, and a minor character tells him/her to run away while s/he still can? Well, if you are considering Dartmouth, run away . . . especially if you are girl. The harmful and anachronistic behaviors that unfold within and which are promoted by the fraternities are not anything a serious person/student needs to deal with in the year 2013 and beyond.</p>
<p>You may wonder why alone in the Ivy League last year Dartmouth suffered a drop in applications . . .</p>
<p>What if someone has no interest in being a member of a Greek organization? What kind of social life will he or she have?</p>
<p>Currently, Dartmouth IS the “Greek system” and vice versa. </p>
<p>Even if you don’t join it, as I didn’t as an undergrad, you will be confronted with its culture and consequences (alcoholism, a pack mentality, boorishness, misogyny) at every turn.</p>
<p>It’s really ugly. </p>
<p>A lot of my freshman-year friends and acquaintances underwent personality changes and indeed became outright alcoholics when they succumbed to the pressure to join a “house.”</p>
<p>As a non-member you will hear stories of alcoholic rituals and regular vomit-fests at the fraternities all the time. It’s grotesque and troglodytic. In retrospect, it turns my stomach; Dartmouth’s administrators should be ashamed for letting it continue down through the generations.</p>
<p>Nothing I read in the Rolling Stone article you cite did not basically square with what I heard about when I was on campus in the 1980’s. It was on the mark.</p>
<p>The Cult of Dartmouth and its PR machine have gone to great lengths to try to discredit the guy behind that “RS” piece, but there are countless independent corroborations of the basic substance and practices described in the article, dating back decades and including the present.</p>
<p>Again, successive Dartmouth presidents and the faculty know the details of what goes on in the fraternities and how damaging to the College’s mission and responsibility to students it all is; and competition in the Internet age, when information is so easily come by, will mean that Dartmouth continues to lose ground to places like U. of Chicago, Duke, Middlebury, etc. or finally joins the 21st century.</p>
<p>momfromme, DartmouthAlum was obviously unhappy with his experience at Dartmouth. I’m not going to respond here, except to say that my D does not recognize the college he is talking about. I’ve said what I have to say on the subject previously, as have others. Please look through the past threads, all of which I believe are now closed, as this one probably will be soon, since there is little point in people repeating what they’ve already said. Then, make up your own mind. Good luck.</p>
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<p>He or she can have a very vibrant social life that has nothing to do with any of the Greek stuff. My daughter and most of her friends never joined a Greek org; she drew friends from, and had fun with, people at least five different sources: the Dartmouth Symphony Orchestra, The Outing Club, her church, her classes, and her dorms. </p>
<p>It’s true that the frats dominate the drinking/party scene, but there’s still plenty to do at Dartmouth if you don’t care to party with the frat boys.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the responses.</p>
<p>I’m puzzled, though, why threads on this topic would be closed.</p>
<p>I’ve been part of CC (on and off) for six years or so and have seen multiple threads on the same topics. For instance, how many have there been about whether high cost schools are “worth it” for people who are full pay?</p>
<p>Because one or two individuals are relentless in their efforts. One of them has never been a D student, and the other one was there in the 80s.</p>
<p>Please. Look at the older threads.</p>
<p>My S was one of those “frat boys,” coureur, and your D would be hard pressed to find someone who is more thoughtful, intellectual, and respectful of smart women. He was raised with gay godfathers, and doesn’t have a homophobic bone in his body. His closest D friends are people of color, as were his major GFs there. </p>
<p>momfromme, as I’ve said elsewhere, despite his generally positive experience as a frat member, S thinks D would be better off without them. But a) he was generally inclined to be anti-fraternity in the first place and is not naturally a joiner, and b) there is a lot of ground between that opinion and flinging around the stereotypes and exaggerations you have seen in this thread already and will see more of, should it continue.</p>
<p>MomFromme:</p>
<p>Did you not follow the “Dimensions protest” this spring?</p>
<p>That was the catalyst for my recent research into the College, which revealed that the glaring problems of the 1980’s had not changed by 2013, and indeed may have gotten worse.</p>
<p>Without question, Dartmouth features a sick cultural underbelly that grows from the fraternities.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is the school where kids beat the crap out of Robert Frost, and which so repulsed Joseph Campbell that he left, and in essence it’s still the same.</p>
<p>It’s funny. Every place I look, I see happy, successful, talented, well-rounded Dartmouth grads. What a horrible place it must be.</p>
<p>Joseph Campbell chose to change academic directions. He transferred to Columbia (he came from just outside NYC, one might note). BTW, while at D, he belonged to a fraternity.</p>
<p>You might just as well attempt to use the fact that he married a Sarah Lawrence student as evidence that SLC is a place where professors prey on the students. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>“While at D, [Joseph Campbell] belonged to a fraternity.”</p>
<p>Exactly. And he saw what campus social life was like and got the heck out.</p>
<p>You’ll note also that in its 244-year-long history, Dartmouth has produced only three Nobel laureates, and not a single Supreme Court justice.</p>
<p>It’s a school for pretty smart, but well rounded, conformist and self-satisfied beer drinkers who really like money. It’s not a place for extraordinarily well-focused and highly driven intellects.</p>
<p>One shouldn’t be too surprised that a group of young people with relatively high I.Q.'s and relatively prosperous family backgrounds graduate and don’t normally fall flat on their
faces. That’s not impressive.</p>
<p>But I’m certain that the student body underachieves in terms of careers and postgraduate studies compared to what it would absent a campus culture that centers on binge drinking and worse.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to control for all the variables and run some regression analyses.</p>
<p>DartmouthAlum</p>
<p>I object to your statements. My daughter is NOT a “self-satisfied beer-drinker[] who really like[s] money.” Nor are her friends. Dartmouth was the perfect place for her “well-focused and highly driven intellect[].” Your “certain[ty] that the student body underachieves” is less than speculation. </p>
<p>Here’s a question. How well have YOU achieved?</p>
<p>Well, I’m not on the Supreme Court yet.</p>
<p>But I have a correction: It appears that Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase was a Dartmouth grad.</p>
<p>And I do often think that anything I’ve accomplished in life is more IN SPITE of having attended Dartmouth rather than BECAUSE of it. I don’t think the place did me too many favors.</p>
<p>There was too much general ass clownery and alcohol-fueled dysfunction. I had seen enough of that by the end of junior high.</p>
<p>Plus, the treatment of women and minorities in my day was abhorrent.</p>
<p>“the treatment of women and minorities in my day was abhorrent”
Would you care to identify (in general terms) what your day was? </p>
<p>And, why you offer yourself as an expert on current conditions?</p>
<p>Add to your list of Dartmouth grads to be proud of rather than denigrating:</p>
<p>Norman Maclean '24 (author of A River Runs Through It and Young Men and Fire)</p>
<p>I’m an expert on current conditions by virtue of the dozens and dozens of hours I did researching and communicating with various stakeholders in the wake of this spring’s “Dimensions protest.”</p>
<p>As for Maclean, well, good. Now try to name a contemporary thought lead who went to Dartmouth, a visionary with influence. Maybe Robert Reich comes closest, but any list will not be well populated.</p>
<p>I tossed Maclean out there because he has been one of my favorite writers for years, and I found it amusing to learn that he was a Dartmouth grad. Note to anyone following this thread: check out the Dartmouth alumni magazine. It’s a good read. [Dartmouth</a> Alumni Magazine](<a href=“http://dartmouthalumnimagazine.com/]Dartmouth”>http://dartmouthalumnimagazine.com/)</p>
<p>Oh my. Anyone who uses “stakeholders” loses 5 points. My scoring. I hate psychobabble.</p>
<p>I have no idea who you talked to, but I kind of question how many people you talked to who disagreed with the protest. Feel free to correct me. </p>
<p>Huh. Name a “contemporary thought lead” – see my comment about “stakeholders” above. Can we use plain English? I assume you mean someone who is breaking new ground. I decline the challenge. I expect that there are any number of Dartmouth grads out there doing great work. i expect there are any number of grads of other schools of high reputation out there doing great work. I don’t feel a need to spend time on Google finding them for you. </p>
<p>Here: I’ll trust in this guy for the future:</p>
<p>Joel Malkin '13
Valedictorian
2d Lieutenant
United States Marine Corps</p>