<p>DartmouthAlum you have made your point and you are entitled to your opinion. I am sorry your experience was so traumatic. You might want to get help with that. One of my children is a grad and one is a current student. Neither one thinks the school is perfect and both would agree with some of your assessments. They would just do it in a calm and rational and productive manner.</p>
<p>momfromme,
The Rolling Stones piece has been discussed quite a bit on here. The author is a not known for his upstanding character. That said, even if a fraction of what he says happens were true it would be bothersome. I will tell you what my son said when a friends son was visiting. My son insisted the visiting student go to the frats. Maybe your child should do the same.</p>
<p>As for the veracity of what really happens? I know a little. Some is appalling to me as a mom. But both of my children insist that people are not required to do anything they do not want to do.</p>
<p>DartmouthAlum, my kid has his faults, I assure you. They just arenât the ones that youâand some othersâinsist he must have because he was a fraternity member at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>DartmouthAlum, my kid has her faults, I assure you. They just arenât the ones that youâand some othersâinsist she must have because she was a sorority member at Dartmouth [and, gasp, went to parties in fraternity basements].</p>
<p>Greek facts:
- Academics. Greeks have higher GPAâs, higher graduation rates, and lower drop out rates when compared to independent peers. Academic success is valued and supported by the Greek organizations.<br>
- Leadership. Greeks over overrepresented in student government and university leadership positions. 85% of Fortune 500 upper leadership jobs are held by Greeks.
- Philanthropy. Greeks are actively involved and volunteer thousands of hours in local and national philanthropic/charity organizations. Greeks raise millions of dollars for these non-profits to better their communities. Greeks also donate more money to their universities after graduation.
- Behavioral issues. Surveys show Greeks have less loneliness, less depression and more connection to their universities when compared to independent students.
- Social. Greeks report higher quality of life scores and enjoy social gatherings with peers. Greeks are held to a higher standard and can not get away with theme parties that independent and resident housing students can have.</p>
<p>OMG, I was lulled into thinking this thread would settle down, but now youâve done it. Any moment now, some Giver of the Word will be in here telling us how Dartmouth Greeks were responsible for 9/11, the war in Iraq, the Great Recession, and most of the main ills of Western Society. It was pleasant while it lasted.</p>
<p>@Opie- Agree!</p>
<p>Dartmouth frat boy pees on woman:</p>
<p>[Dartmouth</a> student accused of public urination - SFGate](<a href=âhttp://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Dartmouth-student-accused-of-public-urination-4688709.php]Dartmouthâ>http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Dartmouth-student-accused-of-public-urination-4688709.php)</p>
<p>Fact: Opie12 cites no sources for his âfacts.â</p>
<p>Fact: The âGreek systemâ is wonderful, yet âHYPâ for some reason have been so slow to figure this out that they havenât adopted it for their campuses. Meanwhile, Bowdoin, Swarthmore and Williams took active steps to extirpate the system, while Trinity College is in the process of doing so. At the same time, hundreds of Dartmouth professors regularly urge the Collegeâs administration to shut down the fraternities; but somehow they, too, are too torpid to see the great benefits of the âGreek system,â even though they are âdistinguished by dual excellence in teaching and scholarshipâ and are the ones actually entrusted with Dartmouth studentsâ formal education.</p>
<p>To extirpate groups who donât believe the same things you believe (or that I believe) is the antithesis of higher education. Where is the line drawn? Some independent students also make bad choicesâŠdo we extirpate all independent students too? Some faculty and university presidents have trouble with the law or alcoholâŠdo we extirpate all faculty, all faculty groups and the college administration? Football teamsâŠbye bye. What about religious groups, the Catholic issue with their priests,âŠare Catholic students extirpated as well due to their association with the church? Please, stop it. Letâs give students options and let them decide what groups or clubs they care to be associated with.</p>
<p>Welcome back, Dart. I was wondering when we were going to be blessed again with more of your anti-Dartmouth rants. For the benefit of anyone new to this site, please use the search function to read DartmouthAlumâs prior posts on thread after thread after thread, and make up your own mind about the college. Iâve wasted enough time trying to deal with his (I assume) comments.</p>
<p>Opie12: Itâs not about beliefs, itâs about behavior. If you were president of Dartmouth, would you allow teenagers under your care to organize drunken vomit circles?</p>
<p>AboutTheSame: Yes, I hope visitors to âCCâ do read my posts (2,936 âviewsâ so far on this thread, for what itâs worth), and the many links I have posted to outside sources.</p>
<p>Richard Hill Dartmouth ÊŒ41, Tuck School Ê»42, former Chair of the Dartmouth Board of Trustees: âOne of the things that both [President} Dave [McLaughlin] and I felt was that we had to really clean up the fraternities, physically; somehow try to improve the conduct in the fraternities, and the parties, and so on. And we were never terribly successful at it. We assigned the supervision to the Dean, and he, at least in my opinion, he never cracked down on the fraternities as much as he should have then. This is something, as you know, thatâs gone on ever since. It went on before then and itâs gone on ever since. And whether this latest study [Student Life Initiative, 2000] will help solve the problem remains to be seen, but itâs been with us for decades.â</p>
<p>From an interview w/Dartmouthâs 14th President, David T. McLaughlin, Dartmouth '54 Tuck School '55: </p>
<p>âWe should have gotten rid of the fraternities.â (p. 71)</p>
<p><a href=âhttp://www.dartmouth.edu/~library/rauner/archives/oral_history/oh_interviews_pdf/McLaughlin_David.pdf[/url]â>http://www.dartmouth.edu/~library/rauner/archives/oral_history/oh_interviews_pdf/McLaughlin_David.pdf</a></p>
<p>Dartmouth Alum says: Yes, I hope visitors to âCCâ do read my posts (2,936 âviewsâ so far on this thread, for what itâs worth), and the many links I have posted to outside sources.</p>
<p>I say: Views do not equal agreement, so what that is worth is âzilchâ in my opinion (I view what he posts, for example, and obviously do not agree with him), but I continue to encourage people to read all his posts in order to determine what value to accord his selective citations from the last 20 years of Dartmouth.</p>
<p>ATS: Dartmouth presidents and hundreds of faculty are on record saying basically: âShut the fraternities down. They are a problem, always have been, and they impede the institutional mission.â </p>
<p>The more âviewsâ that documentation of those facts gets the better. Not everyone will agree, unfortunately, but many eyes might be opened and a proper discussion can take place.</p>
<p>Also, I notice that opie12 never provided citations for his âfacts,â nor did he explain why âHYPâ fail to dive headlong into the wholesale adoption of the âGreek systemâ given its very obvious benefits. I guess those schools just arenât interested in producing leaders, corporate or otherwise. (I canât imagine how they survive financially without donations from âGreekâ alums, either. They must have very small endowments.) Oh, well: Their loss! Youâre just not doing things right if your students arenât urinating on womenâs head and getting taken to the emergency room by the dozens with alcohol poisoning . . .</p>
<p>Letâs not through the baby out with the bath water. Yes, there are issues that could be done to improve the Greek experience. Yes universities and Greek organizations can and should do more to educate ALL students about alcohol use to both independent and Greek students.<br>
Another non-Greek university that has residential housing had 9 students sent to the local ED for alcohol poisoning. Should they eliminate their residential housing system? No clubs or social organizations because a few idiots do dumb things. Maybe lock up students in their room after dark with their books.
Greek organizations help the institutional mission of academic success, leadership, community service, philanthropy, community, and provide many students a support system when they are far from home.</p>
<p>"[P]rovide many students a support system when they are far from home."</p>
<p>Yes, because Dartmouth is so big and scary and nobody pays any attention to you. Itâs so intimidating that many boys find it necessary to retreat into a welcoming drink-and-vomit club. Itâs the best way to produce âcorporate leaders,â who by the way apparently were so homesick they couldnât stand on their own.</p>
<p>The âbaby-with-the-bathwaterâ argument, and the âjust a few idiotsâ angle have been trotted out for decades. Itâs time to drain most of the bathwater and get rid of 80% of the idiots.</p>
<p>The vast majority of the frat boys are fine, upstanding citizens. Sure, there are a few bad apples, but overall, the student body at Dartmouth are wonderful young adults. DA, have you even visited DM lately? I ask this because I visit all of the time, and the students I talk with absolutely love Dartmouth. Some are Greek, some are not. To date, I have not met one student that fits your description. I think we all agree that Dartmouth could improve, but that is the case with any school. Many many top schools have a few students that cause issues for all. Iâve been reading lately about all the problems at Yale with sexual assault. How about the exclusivity of the eating clubs at Princeton? I much prefer an open inclusive social scene where kids can mix with students from other organizations. If you research ANY school, you will find many negative articles, usually from a small group of unsatisfied students. No school is the right match for every student.</p>
<p>WOW SFGATE a San Francisco paper that no one as heard of went all the way across the country to tiny Hanover to find a public urination story. Seems desperate!</p>