@techmom99 I agree that SUNY’s education is a bargain regardless of whether the tuition is “free.” Thus, I qualified my last point with “very small.”
Also, I did not relate quality with price at all. I used the term “psychologically difficult.”
I don’t think the issue is how can the schools handle the demand, its how can the NYS taxpayer survive this? This is just ridiculous for the already overtaxed resident of NYS to be expected to pay more. This just provides yet another reason for hard working New York State residents to leave and never look back. We are telling our own children to never, ever live in NYS, the cradle to grave state where they will be taxed to death. If you don’t work for the state or collect from the state, this is not the place for you.
prof2dad–are you aware of the typical income profile at the better state flagships?? Many are north of the NY max for free tuition.No psychological issues in those states.
@prof2dad - I interpreted “psychologically difficult” as meaning would people like me have objections to spending money on a SUNY when other people are getting it for free.
@barrons I agree with you that a good SUNY is no less than Syracuse.
But I do not think their target markets have a lot of overlap. Before the free tuition policy, a top SUNY is like $6,500, and Syracuse is like $44,000. For those in-state students who choose Syracuse instead of a top SUNY, money is really not a decisive issue. With the free tuition policy, it is now like $0 vs. $44,000. So the price differential goes from $37,500 to $44,000. For those who would choose Syracuse for whatever reasons, a “possible” additional $6,500 is actually not that much relative to the initial differential of $37,500. Furthermore, I bet a big chunk of Syracuse in-state students would be probably not qualified for free tuition anyway; as a result, the free tuition policy should have little impacts on Syracuse’s admission management.
“@prof2dad - I interpreted “psychologically difficult” as meaning would people like me have objections to spending money on a SUNY when other people are getting it for free.”
@techmom99 That was what I meant.
Let me use an analog. On CC, I bet you have read quite a few complains about need-based financial aids. Some middle-income families argued that middle-income students are the “victims” of the system in which poor students got a free ride and wealthy kids would not care at all about paying the full sticker price. I bet some (not all) middle-income families in NY would probably feel the same way when they are not qualified for free tuition. Being resentful enough about the system, a few of them may choose not to spend money on a SUNY; after all, some people do act based on their feeling, and not entirely on rationality.
@Empireapple: Have you seen how many would qualify for this new benefit? Evidently, it’s not a very big number.
BTW, I can see how some of the weaker privates, who heavily discount tuition, may be hurt by this.
I doubt many people pay the full Syracuse list price, for instance, and there are weaker privates.
I understand exactly. I am one of those people who does not qualify for the scholarship. This is actually the second time I have been negatively impacted - I enrolled in CUNY as a 17 year old in May when it was free and started classes in September when it cost money. I am resentful that my child is not getting the benefit, but if I was to refuse to send him to a SUNY out of spite, the only ones to be hurt would be my family because we would have to take out loans and/or re-mortgage the house and/or borrow from retirement savings to pay the difference. SUNY would not care whether or not my child enrolled. Making that choice would be irrational. I am not generally irrational in financial decisions. The friends with whom I have discussed this all feel the same way. Our children are going to SUNY schools regardless of whether or not we get Excelsior money. There may be some people who will react as you posit, but those are probably people who didn’t think SUNY was good enough for their snowflake anyway.
I do not live in New York, but I understand there are certain criteria for this program. What happens if your student cannot land a decent paying job in the state following graduation? Isn’t staying in the state a certain time frame a requirement?
Our ~$59k/year income makes us eligible for the grant, but my son probably won’t get it because of the credit requirements. At least 12 credits per semester must be required for the student’s degree and he’s a junior who’s down to a couple comp sci courses and a gen ed per semester. The only way he could reach the 12 credit minimum is to pile on another CS course, and I don’t think his advisor will approve that. I don’t resent the families who qualify, though, anymore than I’d resent a Pell eligible kid. Students who receive full TAP and Pell have struggles my kid doesn’t. If my tax dollars can help pull those students out of poverty, I’m happy to contribute.
I suspect it’s going to be difficult for many students to qualify for the full benefit for 4 years. SUNY’s COA is ~$22k/year. A ~$3k grant (for a $60k income) won’t make dorming an option. In our region there’s exactly one 4-year SUNY within commuting distance and it’s already competitive. Students who don’t get in start at one of the local cc’s. Many New Yorkers aren’t that fortunate. NYS is a large state and there are many areas where the closest 4-year SUNY is an hour or more away. Getting a grant won’t change the physical limitations those lower imcome students face. Even if they could commute, they still have to be accepted.
@momreads, The grant requires students to live and work in NYS for the same number of years they receive the grant. If they don’t, it converts to a loan. So a student could end up with $27k in federal loans plus ~$20k in NYS loans.
@austinmshauri - SUNY has an EOP program which takes students with lower stats. Some colleges also offer some first gen options. A SUNY my son declined invited him to a free, three day stay with etc, etc, based on his status as a first gen student. I am not sure where the school got that idea - his Common App clearly indicates that H and I both have post-grad degrees. He declined that invitation with a note. However, EOP eligible students often get PELL and TAP and have other benefits. My D worked for Upward Bound for 2 summers, which is a program that brings HS students on to college campuses to live and study for 6 weeks. The students, who are potential first gen and EOP admits, pay nothing. A number of the students D worked with are in college now.
I do agree that it may be hard for many students to accumulate 30 credits per year but the program is a start. Education is the key to getting into the middle class.
I have hope for the program, but there are some problems that concern me. I have 1 child already graduated from Suny, and another will next month. Both had very good stats and qualified for nice awards at many privates. But they both also qualified for Presidential awards at Suny. Effectively receiving full tuition scholarships, leaving family responsibility at R&B. This made Suny a clear winner in our household for the studies they wanted to pursue. In my experience, their friends who also received these awards were by and large, full pay at many schools, like us, and high stat students. This is how the Sunys attracted their best. What will Suny do now to attract the honors students? It is hard to award merit when tuition is already 0. Tuition is set legislatively, R&B and fees are local. I doubt campuses can afford to offer discounts there.
So the fact that many other students will also be receiving free tuition (although not merit-based) makes SUNYs less attractive to high stats students? Even though the amount they will be paying vis a vis a private stays the same?
I don’t think it’s going to make SUNYs less attractive for those seriously considering them.
My oldest is in 10th grade, so a lot could change still (as far as her goals) before she is applying, however, so far the new scholarship looks positive for her.
The Presidential (please, correct me if I’m wrong) is competitive. You need the stats to be considered, but still need to write essays/be interviewed, etc. right?
Basically this scholarship is automatic if your income is under the threshold and you are at 15 credits… so basically my daughter can apply knowing that going in she will at least get the excelsior. That’s a positive for her. Now, the benefit to getting a different scholarship that may not stack but may replace the excelsior (such as Presidential) would be that she will know she can move outside of NY within 4 years after graduation without paying it back if she chooses. Additionally, we wouldn’t have to worry about the logistics of figuring things out if a miracle happened and our income level went just above the threshold.
There may be some kids who view it differently but so far, that’s how my daughter and I have been seeing it.
Great point. It shouldn’t. I should note higher stat and 125k + will no longer have access to a discount
I don’t think it will make SUNY less attractive.
Families who were at that 100k mark and were previously full pay at SUNY if their kid did nor receive a scholarship- STEM, Honors, etc. will now receive full tuition.
For this family, having the student take the $5500 loan and paying approx 10-12k out of pocket means that their kid can go away to school (if that is their choice).
It is at a cost that is still less than their FAFSA EFC. This may make SUNY more competitive especially at schools like, Bing, UB, Albany, Stony Brook, Geneseo, New Paltz, SUNY ESF (where students can take 15 credits at Syracuse as part of their SUNY tuition and receive a degree that has the Syracuse University Seal and the SUNY Seal).
Students will still be accepted to Honors Colleges, STEM incentive (which are given regardless of income) and EOP (for academically and economically disadvantaged students) at SUNY.
The problem that I see is that students may be using SUNY as a safety, especially if they can get free tuition and shutting out kids who are applying because they really want to attend SUNY.
Private colleges have the choice of opting in to the Enhanced scholarship program. Personally, I don’t see this happening if it means they have to freeze tuition for the 4 years that a student is in college to get $3k from the state.
How much extra do you think it will cost you in taxes? How much would it cost you if some of these students didn’t go to college, or started and then dropped out because of finances? Or defaulted on loans?
There’s an old saying. “If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.”
I think the program is a good start, too, @techmom99. I don’t think accumulating 30 stats overall is necessarily a problem. It’s taking 12 per semester that must meet either a major or gen ed requirement that could be a problem for students who are already enrolled.
My son’s been doubling up on courses to reduce his gen ed load and free up space for cross registration at a local private college. However, the other courses aren’t required and he’s already met the majority of the gen ed requirements, so he may not have enough courses left to fill the 12 credits/semester requirement. STEM majors have course sequences that can’t always be altered. I don’t think the state accounted for that
One unintended consequence of this bill is that the law of supply and demand will dictate that salaries will go down for NY jobs. With a huge incentive for graduates of this program to stay in-state, employers will need to offer less to fill their jobs. I am not cynical enough to believe that year 1 employers will lower their offers, but you definitely will see starting salary inflation happen more slowly in NY than in other states if this program impacts a large enough number of graduates who now can’t leave the state for four years.
@NashvilletoTexas You brought up a real possibility, but I think the possible effect should be small because it is a one-state initiative and not a federal initiative. I think this impact, if it realizes, is also likely to concentrate at the lower salary range because I believe the newly incremental bachelor-degree graduates are largely those who initially would not want to pursue a college degree at all and those who initially could only afford a community college degree. These two groups of students tend to end up at the lower salary range and may introduce a suppressing effect only at this salary range.
This effect has been widely recognized in Taiwan; of course, the situation in NY is quite different from that in Taiwan. Taiwan increased its higher education capacity from about 10-20% high school graduates being able to enter a college 20 years ago to something like 95% today. When the supply of college graduates is too high, the real income for newly college graduates today is actually “much” lower than that 20 years ago.