In dire need

<p>Hi, I'm a junior attending a public high school in Texas. Here are my records: </p>

<p>Academic:
4.0 weighed GPA
AP Art history (5)
AP World history (5)
AP Calculus AB
AP English III
AP US history
AP Spanish IV
AP Human Geography
SAT: 2310
ACT: Unknown as of now</p>

<p>Extracurricular:
Created poetry club at school (president)
Editor of school newspaper (three years)
Green Cord (volunteer program)
Translator at my church
I have published a poetry book, and I am working on my second (poetry and critical essays)
Literary Criticism UIL team - high hopes that we will go to state level this year
Played violin for hospital patients through church</p>

<p>Job:
I was a math tutor for a few months
I also just applied for an internship at the Dallas Morning News. </p>

<p>Essay:
I plan to write my college essays during this summer. I don't know how much essays count for college admissions - but essays will probably be my strong point because as you can see, I am keen on writing. (But not so keen on math...)</p>

<p>Majors:
I'm interested in English/literature and/or physics. Help. </p>

<p>Question:
So I am making my college list right now! I have a list of Dream or Probable colleges. Please help me figure out which ones are suited for me. If you any suggestions beyond my lists, please let me know! Thank you so much in advance. : )</p>

<p>Dream:
Brown University
Columbia University
Barnard College
Tufts University
Middlebury College
Amherst University
Vanderbilt University
New York University
Georgetown University</p>

<p>Probable:
University of Texas
University of Texas honors programs (? I don't know too much about these)</p>

<p>Your list of colleges seems academically suitable, based on what you’ve told us, but I can think of at least three things you should think about pretty seriously.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Virtually none of those “dream” colleges can really be thought of as a sure thing. Not for you. Not for anybody. </p></li>
<li><p>Those are some really expensive “dreams.” Can your family afford them? (I’m not asking you to answer me, here on the Internet. I just want you to keep cost in mind in your own thinking.) Do you have a good safety or two–a college that you’re sure you can get into, that you know your family can afford, where you think you could be successful and reasonably happy?</p></li>
<li><p>If you’re “not so keen on math,” ditch the idea of majoring in physics. Abandon it completely. Do it now.</p></li>
<li><p>If you haven’t already paid money to take the ACT, don’t bother. You have a 2310 on the SAT. That’s plenty.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Dear Sikorsky,
Thank you for your blunt and concise honesty. Yes, I understand it’s an extensive and expensive dream school list. Thanks for being sensitive about exposing family-income and things of that nature. Since it seems like my resume did not impress you, I don’t think I can come close to standing out to the admissions people to get substantial financial aid. In this case, I will look more into financially-friendly colleges. Nonetheless, I am still curious to know if I have the chances of being accepted even if I might have to go through financial loans (a whole different realm).
I think I am too ambitious for my own good, so it’s difficult for me to think about practical college choices (financially, safety-school-wise). The only one that comes to mind is UT Austin because I am a resident of Texas. But even just UT Austin probably won’t satisfy me, and I’ll have to look into honors programs that they have there.
Thanks for the ACT advice! I won’t sign up for it. </p>

<p>Another question: Do you think I could stand out to the people of the college admission process?</p>

<p>I don’t think that your resume didn’t impress Sikorsky. Just know that anyone’s chances of getting into ivies or similar schools is very low- 25-35K apps and maybe 2K acceptances. With the exception of NYU, you won’t get better financial aid at these schools if the adcom is more impressed with your resume. NYU is known for horrible financial aid. </p>

<p>Does your class rank put you in range for auto admission to UT?</p>

<p>Oh, wait, I didn’t mean to be blunt (except about the physics), or to make you feel like a lackluster applicant. Let me try to be clearer.</p>

<p>I don’t think any of the colleges on your list will look at your application and say, “What the hell? This ruthism person had no business applying here!” These schools enroll students with credentials like yours. You absolutely should apply if they interest you. The problem you’ll have, as I think you probably know, is numbers: these colleges and universities have enough applicants to fill their freshman dorms several times over with very smart, very motivated, very well prepared students. You do seem to be all of those things. It’s just that being all of those things isn’t quite as unusual as a lot of people (your grandparents, the kids at school who think you’re “a genius,” some lady in your mom’s spin class…) seem to think.</p>

<p>“How can I stand out in the applicant pool?” is a very hard question. Probably unanswerable, really. For the most part, if you’re going to stand out, you already know it. You’ve noticed that you’re one of the most sought-after high-school linebackers in Texas, or that you were in a Broadway show and two national tours, or that you’re Chelsea Clinton. (OK, Chelsea already went to college, but you get the idea.) For most of us mortals, the best we can do is to do the best we can, and hope the numbers break our way somewhere.</p>

<p>Everything you’ve done is good. Your transcript and your SAT scores make you look highly competitive; you’ve shown real interest, talent and commitment in the literary arts. Depending on the circumstances of the publication of your volume of poetry, that really might catch somebody’s eye. (Did you self-publish? If so, that’s good. Did a real publisher publish it? That’s better.)</p>

<p>Finding safeties can be hard. Often, you can do that by looking for colleges or universities that live a little bit in the shadow of the places that make your tingle with anticipation. You really want to go to the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown, but don’t know whether you can get in? The Elliott School of International Affairs at GW and the School of International Service at American U. are good alternatives, too. In your case, you have a strong literary bent. Maybe you want to look at colleges with highly respected literary reviews. Kenyon College and the University of the South at Sewanee both have well regarded literary reviews; they’re well respected institutions, but easier to get into than Columbia, Amherst or Georgetown. University of Iowa is well known for its excellent creative writing programs, but not as selective as Tufts or Brown.</p>

<p>It’s none of my business, of course, but I really like to see high school kids find good safeties. Because, as fabulous and exciting as those really famous colleges are, admission to them is fundamentally unpredictable. And, as dismissive as some posters on College Confidential can be about “second-tier” or “third-tier” institutions, some of them are really vibrant, exciting places where you can have a life-changing intellectual experience. My own daughter is enrolling at a university we all thought was her safety, but after she visited it more than once, and really looked at its course offerings and its campus atmosphere, she really liked it.</p>

<p>And, of course, there’s the money thing. If you’re paying retail at some of the institutions you’ve named, that bill is going to come to about a quarter of a million after-tax dollars. Some parents have that kind of money saved up for their kids, but many don’t. If you’re counting on financial aid to pay the bills (and I’m still not asking), then you really can’t just be playing the long shots.</p>

<p>Really, I do apologize if I seemed to be discouraging you from applying to those places. That wasn’t my intention. You look like a legitimate contender at any of them, and going to any of them could be a phenomenal experience. But I hope you’ll hedge your bets a little bit, too. Every spring there are a few posters on College Confidential who applied to a bunch of reach schools figuring that surely something would come through, but nothing did, and now they’re crushed because they had “safeties” that they hated, or worse, no safety at all. It’s a terrible story…every time it happens. Just don’t be one of those kids.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>[EDIT: x-post with prefect. Thanks for getting in there, prefect. Obviously, you understood me perfectly. It just took a darn lot of time to type all that out, and I had a phone call in the middle of it, too.]</p>

<p>Dear Prefect,
Yes, my rank does place me in automatic admission. Yeah…I feel like just sitting here and complaining about the exclusiveness of the Ivies, but I’ll save you the pointless whining… Thank you so much for your input. : ) I didn’t know that NYU was terrible with financial aid. ! </p>

<p>Dear Sikorsky,
I feel very lucky that a person like you decided to read my thread and comment on it! Thanks for the extensive reply. I feel very informed - especially the part about safety schools. I guess it’s because I’ve grown up only hearing about the famous Ivy League schools and the Seven Sisters, that it seems to me like they are the only colleges out there. I will do more research this summer of my junior year and look into the nooks and crannies of liberal arts colleges.
Yes, I self-published. I haven’t been very eager about putting my work out there mainly because it was just a collection of old, beginner’s poems. But by this fall, I hope to have my second book out which will be a much better reflection of my current writing style, and I will try and advertise that one and get word out.
I will also try and fix my college list. I joined this site in hopes of getting direct answers from people telling me that Yes, I can make this school and that school. No, I will get rejected here and there. But I know that there are no concrete answers, and that ultimately, I’ve been looking for comfort on my abilities rather than accurate estimations (which only college admission people can give in the end).
I expect that I will come back to this thread and read your advice later this summer! Thank you. : )</p>

<p>Oops, and I kind of damned self-publishing with faint praise. Sorry. It is noteworthy; it shows real commitment to a long-term project.</p>

<p>Any chance you could turn the publication process, from writing to revising to editing to publishing, into a college essay? Not the whole process, of course, but some small-but-critical component of it, that somehow taught you something valuable about your life or the world at large?</p>

<p>Oh, and if you can get into Texas, that removes a lot of the pressure to find a safety–unless you’d hate going to UT. If you’d hate going there, it isn’t really a very safe safety.</p>

<p>Brown University: Mid Reach
Columbia University: Mid Reach
Barnard College: Mid Reach
Tufts University: Match
Middlebury College: Low reach
Amherst University: Mid Reach
Vanderbilt University: Mid Reach
New York University: Match/ In
Georgetown University: Mid Reach</p>

<p>I say “mid reach” meaning that you have a little less than a 50% chance of getting in but enough that you will be a solid applicant and will generate serious consideration by the admission committees at those ultra-competitive schools.</p>

<p>There are only a few ways to really “stand out” in an applicant pool to become a top top contender and be strong enough to receive a likely letters. Those are usually the best URM (Underrepresented minority such as Hispanic, african american, etc) applicants and winners of national competitions or received national recognition, but as I said, there are very few of those compared to the applicant pool.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Huh, just under 50%. Really? When Columbia admits about 7%? With no disrespect at all toward ruthism intended, I’m curious to know you you arrive at that. </p>

<p>My alma mater also admits around 7%, and I have interviewed some mind-bogglingly good applicants who didn’t get in. Maybe Columbia is different, but I think there can be a world of difference between “about as good a shot as most of the applicant pool” and “a little less than 50%.”</p>

<p>

FA isn’t given out based on standing out, it’s based on need. If you are a low income family then many of the schools listed are the best to choose. However, if you are NOT low income then those schools will not believe you have financial need and will charge you accordingly for the school. Check out the Net Price Calculator on each school’s web site to get an pre-read on FA.</p>

<p>Go to each school’s web site and use its “net price calculator” to give an idea of what kind of financial aid it may give.</p>

<p>And UT Austin is an excellent school, so having that as a safety (if you can afford it) is a good place to be.</p>

<p>Dear Erin’s Dad and ucbalumnus,
Good point (about financial aid dependent on just financial status). Also, I’ve never used the net price calculator, but it sounds convenient. Thanks!</p>

<p>ruthism,</p>

<p>If you are a girl, take a look at Hollins In Virginia which has a bang-up writing program.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>When I say “50%”, I mean it’s a 50-50 shot shot because those schools are so ridiculously competitive and random sometimes in admissions that it’s hard to give a prospective applicant specific chances unless that applicant has a hook (legacy, URM, athlete, development admit) or an “X factor” (Major award, national recognition, Uber-Extracurriculars, etc) and even those applicants don’t get in all the time (but a majority of the time). You don’t have a hook or X factor as far as I can see but you have excellent grades, course rigor, and SAT score that you are definitely academically qualified for those schools, but so are the 20,000-30,000+ applicants to those schools, so you have a little less or maybe about a 50-50 shot of getting in. Write great essays to give you the best chance you can and good luck!</p>

<p>Cortana: like Sikorsky, I think we understand that you’re not trying to unduly bolster the OPs hopes by saying 50/50. What Sikorsky (and I) would say is that 50/50 is too optimistic. To say an applicant is 50/50 at Columbia means his/her chances are seven times greater than the statistical norm.</p>

<p>If indeed, you even feel the OP is twice as competetive as the normal pool, her chances would go to ~14% or one in seven – not one in two.</p>

<p>Ultimately I agree w/both of you that the OP is viable. We just think that to say 50/50 is too optimistic.</p>

<p>There’s no way in hell to give ANY sort of percentage chance of getting in. All we can do is look at the kind of students these colleges enroll and compare them to the OP. OP is within range for any of them with a 4.0 and a 2310. There is no college in the country that isn’t worth the application, though of course a school that admits one in twenty applicants should never be relied upon.</p>

<p>So basically, OP, be optimistic about your chances. Your stats are absolutely top notch. If you apply to all those schools, you’ll almost certainly have a wonderful place to go to, and even if you don’t get accepted to one, you already have a great safety lined up (which is what I usually have to tell people around here). There’s really nothing more for us to say. You’re doing great. One more stretch and you’ll be there.</p>

<p>The only thing I’d like to say is that financial aid really is an issue. If you haven’t yet, you should have “the money talk” with your parents. Find out what your parents can really afford. If they can’t pay 50k/year, then frankly, you should probably take NYU off your list.</p>

<p>Have you considered College of William & Mary? For out-of-state students, the tuition fee is below the usual ivy league universities; FA is always available based on your family income. English is one of their top majors; my S applied ED in 2009 and immensely enjoying W&M.</p>

<p>Dear happymomof1,
Thanks! I haven’t heard of that college, but I’ll look into it if it has a good writing program. </p>

<p>Dear cortana431, T26E4, and Kudryavka,
I think the most unnerving part of the exclusive acceptance rate of these schools is that although we feel like we know so much about what the college is looking for - there’s really no way of predicting the exact outcome because so many talented students get turned down.
50/50 <em>is</em> too optimistic, so I will only apply to a very select few (one or two) of these dream schools (and talk to my parents about financial aid). It’s just really difficult to get it down to two when all that’s clouding my mind is, “What if?!” and the likelihood of $60 going to waste if I apply to a less than 50% chance school. : /</p>

<p>Dear ParadiseMT,
College of William & Mary did pop out on some of my search for good schools for English majors. The tuition is definitely an attention-grabber. Thanks. : )</p>

<p>I don’t know enough about Hollis to vouch for it. I know the name, but not much more.</p>

<p>I went to graduate school in English lit with several people who’d been undergraduates at William and Mary. I don’t know what they were like when they were admitted, but they sure were smart as heck when they graduated!</p>

<p>@Sikorsky, if this in Facebook, I will click the Like icon in your message! Quite a compliment for W&M undergraduate and W&M education.</p>

<p>As to “what they are like when they are admitted” I would say a bunch of smart kids! My S applied ED in 2009 (a flip coin between W&M and NYU), graduated with IB diploma (which he only received way after being accepted and graduation), one of highest scores in his IB extended essay on The Literary Merit of the Graphic Novel - Alan Moore and Art Spiegelman: Two Comic Book Writers. Two Works, 3rd in their class of 40 (quite a small private school in our island) and just really loves to read (he is into his 3rd Kindle) and talk at times. He is now a junior majoring in English - his first and only choice. </p>

<p>@ruthism, if you want to know more about W&M first hand, PM me and will advise my S. Good Luck!</p>