<p>Williams, Amherst and Middlebury are all reaches for my DS. Which LACs should he be looking at? Stats are 2030 SAT (640M 670R 720W), 7 APs, 3.75 UW GPA, top 10%, NHS. Not into pre-med, or engineering-- but possibly interested in law, business related to a music career. Strong ECs in sports (multiple varsity letters), music, writing (including musical composition). Band performs professionally, but does not want to major in music as he wants to broaden his skill set.</p>
<p>St. Olaf in Minnesota is strong in music as an EC. I think Lawrence University in Wisconsin has a conservatory – not sure if he has any interest in a double major or a minor in music. I have a nephew who went to Bowdoin and worked as a talent scout in the music industry for several years after college, but Bowdoin would be a reach for your son.</p>
<p>As a male, your S will get a bit of an admissions advantage at some of the LACs trying to maintain reasonable male/female ratios, such as Vassar and Skidmore. How about Colgate, Bucknell, Lafayette, Dickinson, Gettysburg, U. Richmond, Kenyon?</p>
<p>I know you asked for LAC’s; nonetheless…</p>
<p>He might consider Brandeis U, a medium-sized university with good focus on undergraduates; excellent in the pre-law/ business realms; close suburb of Boston where he can always find professionally performed music or attend professional sports teams.</p>
<p>Also check out U. of Rochester in upstate NY. Perhaps its relationship to Eastman School of Music will build in other college classmates who appreciate all kinds of music. Even if he doesn’t major or pursue music, I feel that someone who loves music should go where he can catch many live performances, just to nourish his soul as needed. Rochester is a small/medium city not near other cities, but with Minor League baseball team, I think; pleasant and inexpensive to see games.</p>
<p>Wesleyan (LAC in Connecticut) has interesting music coursework, including ethnomusicology and a gong in the middle of campus 
playable by a dozen people simultaneously. See if Wesleyan has Division III sports teams; they might welcome his athletic ability. Small town/suburb around an hour from Boston. Somewhat of a reach academically with his statistics, but he sounds like a well-rounded student with the music and sports, so it might be worth a shot.</p>
<p>Connecticut College is a very fine LAC with a strong music culture. It offers free music lessons to students, and there are a lot bands, and I think even a sort of barn where bands can practice. It would give a musician who doesn’t want to major in music a lot of chances to play/perform.</p>
<p>The former women’s colleges are all great admissions deals for men like your son. Vassar, Sarah Lawrence, Skidmore, Wheaton, Goucher, Connecticut College all have excellent arts programs integrated in their curriculum. The colleges you listed are reach schools and Wm&Mary has turned down kids with your son’s stats I know, so it would be a reach/match. It’s fine to include them on the list but make sure that there are also a number of schools that are very likely to take him in the mix.</p>
<p>thx for the suggestions everybody. The schools I listed in the original post are all reaches, but if he really clicks w/one he might use his ED option on it to increase his chances w/at least one reach school. He will have several others that are in-range, and at least 1 or 2 safeties like most applicants. These days, it’s hard to know what is even in-range as more schools are accepting OOS applicants that are full-paying (that fits us) and come close to making even the 25% acceptance range.</p>
<p>You got that right. It’s really been a rough season. My son did well with his list but he was not applying those high selectivity schools. There is no way to tell how things will work when applying to those schools that accept less than a quarter of their applicants, especially since those applicants tend to mostly be qualified. Having those schools as a match does not give you “match” chances of admissions.</p>
<p>Out of state admissions at William & Mary are more competitive then in state, regardless of the higher tuition. They are at no loss for high qualified students both in and out of state, willing to pay full freight. Students with the posted stats are regularly turned down from in state. They do use holistic admissions and will turn down a student they don’t feel is a good fit no matter the stats. I’ve seen this specifically with students who have ECs all over the map, so be carful how your student ‘packages’ themselves. This is not an assumption, but information gained from admissions after students are denied. They are told they are a ‘transfer-risk’.</p>
<p>The very best of luck to your student. They should have a lot of options at great schools if you cast a wide net. If this year is any indication, you just never know!</p>
<p>You may also be “in range” for Bowdoin too because it is SAT optional. Sacchi listed some really good schools, although Colgate and Kenyon will be harder admits than Lafayette, Dickinson or Gettysburg.</p>
<p>“you just never know” really is becoming a more common phrase around here. My S’s counselor said she would never tell a student NOT to apply to any school, just because she has seen some “very strange” outcomes–they may be outliers, but they do occur. One Admissions Officer at a well-regarded LAC told me: your son has a chance to be admitted to maybe one school you believe to be truly out-of-range (if you apply to 4 or 5), but will more likely be rejected at three or four schools you are reasonably sure are in-range. I guess the moral is: it’s okay to swing for the fences a little, but make sure you have a couple safeties that are truly safeties. BTW I hear more and more posters saying they have applied at about 10 schools and gotten only 2-3 accepts.</p>
<p>
blueiguana, could you elaborate on this a bit? Are you saying that students have contacted W&M specifically after a rejection and been told they weren’t admitted because of a fear they might transfer? This is at odds with my understanding that colleges will not provide a specific reason for rejection, in part because of professional standards and in part to reduce the possibility of lawsuits. W&M has a very high freshman retention rate (95 percent) - so either they’re very good at eliminating “transfer-risks,” or students are happy with their educational experiences there.</p>
<p>pleaseadvise, the W&M CC forum is read by a member of the admissions department, who comments frequently on threads. You might post any specific questions about W&M there. I’d think your s would have a very strong chance there if you’re in-state, or if he applied ED. </p>
<p>Not a LAC, but has he thought about Vanderbilt? Nice opportunities for someone interested in the business aspects of a career in music (though it doesn’t have an undergrad business major, it does have some related minors). Outstanding internships in Music City.</p>
<p>Vandy is a great suggestion, but he is out-of-range. almost need 700s across the board and he only has one. BTW needing 700s across the board applies to so many top tier colleges these days, and that percentile equivalent means about only 3-5% of all applicants need bother applying. Still, it seems a ton of people (nearly everyone) posting have those scores, not just a few percent of the applicant pool.</p>
<p>Anyway, since he enjoys performing live so much, being at an elite LAC in the middle of nowhere—no matter how beautiful or prestigious—may not really be the best choice. Nashville would be terrific. He has mentioned NYU-but it’s too close to home and we don’t see it as a “true” college experience. Maybe we should broaden our horizons.</p>
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<p>@ frazzled1 - Yes, that’s what I’m saying.</p>
<p>You’re right, pleaseadvise - Vandy’s stats for admitted students have skyrocketed in recent years. ED might still work there, though - and finaid is generous (no loans), so if you have need, that would be met. A safety for your son in Nashville would be Belmont, which may not be his cup of tea but has very strong ties to the music industry. Doesn’t sound like a very good fit for him, though, since he wants to do some academic exploring.</p>
<p>Thanks for responding, blueiguana. Would you be willing to specify whether this is first-hand information (were you or your child told this by an adcom)? It’s surprising, considering what I’ve read about admissions in general and W & M in particular.</p>
<p>Thought we might jump in here to clarify some information provided about W&M on this thread.</p>
<p>We are absolutely a highly selective institute (admit rate is approx 33% overall, a bit higher for IS students, a bit lower for OOS students) and as blueiguana noted, we use holistic review. We believe that us the best method by which to review all of a student’s credentials and to make the most informed decisions. However, we do not turn students down just because we think they’re not a good fit. We think that most students can absolutely fit in at W&M because this community doesn’t cater to a specific type. However, we do unfortunately deny and waitlist some amazingly talented students not because they’re unqualified and not because they wouldn’t do well at W&M but simply because we have more great applicants in our pool than we have space for in our incoming class. Our Admit It! blog Decisions Decisions series ([W&M</a> Blogs Admit It!](<a href=“http://blogs.wm.edu/author/admiss/]W&M”>Admit It!, Author at The William & Mary Blogs)) talks about this a great deal.</p>
<p>blueiguana, we have never informed a freshman applicant that they are a transfer risk. We would have no basis on which to make that assertion. We have at times denied transfer applicants who have been to multiple colleges (we’re talking 3-4 colleges with no clearly articulated reason for all the transferring) because we believe that they may transfer out of W&M and that doesn’t do them or W&M any good but we have never made a decision on a freshman applicant based on whether or not we think they might transfer out. That has never been a part of our committee discussions. We’re sorry if the information you received led you to think that we base our decisions on such matters. We do our best to institute a very thoughtful and fair review of our applicants. We know that our decisions may be viewed as unfair or disappointing but we absolutely believe that our process is fair.</p>
<p>Well, that’s interesting.</p>
<p>Have you thought about Lewis & Clark or Macalester? Goucher and Sarah Lawrence are also good suggestions. And how about Ithaca College?</p>
<p>Thanks for your response, W&M Admissions. I think the explanation of how holistic admissions work at a school like W&M will be helpful to the OP as she and her son develop his college list. And I appreciate you addressing blueiguana’s statement about transfer risks, as well.</p>
<p>W&M Admission said:
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<p>I never said, or insinuated, that anything about the W&M admission process was anything but fair. Colleges make determination on fit all the time, especially when they have an overabundance of well qualified candidates, which I pointed out that W&M did. </p>
<p>Simply because I assume this question may follow, my student did not apply to W&M (ie. this is not sour grapes of some sort). I have stated publicly on this forum that he would have loved to apply for consideration however his major is not offered. I was simply passing on information, a hallmark of this forum. What is troubling is when something can not be said about a university without the ever present admissions rep showing up to shut down open conversation. Sometimes it’s really, really best just to let parents discuss…seriously. Honestly, you have no idea what a student’s family and GC may have been told. It may not be policy, it may not be common, but you have no way of saying 100% this is not the information that has been given. I have no problem discussing issues with fellow CC members.</p>
<p>Again, my very best wishes to the OP’s student. You appear to be doing a great job of background work to help them form a list that will allow them great choices next year!</p>
<p>Taking this even further OT (apologies, pleaseadvise), only to address post 19. blueiguana, I’m quite sure that W&M Admission’s intention was not to “shut down” discussion on any aspect of this thread. I’m the person who was surprised by your statement about students being rejected at W&M because they were “transfer risks” - surprised that any student would be given this reason (or any reason) for rejection by an adcom, and particularly surprised that this might have happened at a school I know well. The conventional wisdom is that there’s no point in calling admissions at any school after a rejection, because no one on the staff is going to tell you why a student was rejected. </p>
<p>This is why I asked if you had first-hand information - my intention was certainly not to imply that sour grapes played any part in your post. If you were the parent of an applicant and were personally told by an adcom that your student was rejected because his/her ECs hadn’t been packaged properly, or because he/she seemed to be a transfer risk, that would carry more weight with me than if a friend related it to you. In fairness to the school, I think the circumstances of how we come by information that’s counter to the conventional wisdom, or what the school upholds as policy, are relevant. I’ve been around CC for a long time and know how easily assertions are seen as facts. </p>
<p>Apologies for stirring things up - it was not my intention. And, pleaseadvise, just to show that I do indeed know what it means to stay on-topic, I have another suggestion for you, which would be a safety for someone with your son’s stats, and probably offer significant merit aid: Point Park University in Pittsburgh, which offers a major in sports, arts, and entertainment management. It’s known for its strong performing arts program.</p>