<p>So is he still in school? I’m not trying to pry, I am just interested. He sounds like he is very much on his way to a succesful career, I’m just wondering if this is a head start while still in college, or is he already a graduate?</p>
<p>In the BM performance (in the U.S.) there are 1,742 students in 186 composition programs; 1,958 Violinists in 274 programs; 3,600 sopranos in 386 programs; 2,520 pianists in 352 programs; 769 students in Audio Engineering programs at 37 schools; 2,109 students in music business at 58 schools.</p>
<p>I don’t have a ton of time to write right now BUT there are NO programs listed in the data teaching pop music. The pop music industry is a multi-BILLION dollar industry. </p>
<p>If you would like to read about how well classical symphonies are doing read the articles below:</p>
<p>[The</a> Plight of Symphony Orchestras in the United States - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com](<a href=“http://voices.yahoo.com/the-plight-symphony-orchestras-united-states-5735052.html]The”>Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos)</p>
<p>[Syracuse</a> Symphony Orchestra will file for bankruptcy, board announces | syracuse.com](<a href=“http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/04/post_411.html]Syracuse”>Syracuse Symphony Orchestra will file for bankruptcy, board announces - syracuse.com)</p>
<p>[Symphonies</a> Struggle for Survival - ABC News](<a href=“Symphonies Struggle for Survival - ABC News”>Symphonies Struggle for Survival - ABC News)</p>
<p>[Sad</a> Violins: Philadelphia Orchestra May File for Bankruptcy - DailyFinance](<a href=“Stock Portfolio & Tracker - Yahoo Finance”>Stock Portfolio & Tracker - Yahoo Finance)</p>
<p>[Virginia</a> Symphony warns of bankruptcy without $1M loan | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com](<a href=“http://hamptonroads.com/2008/12/virginia-symphony-warns-bankruptcy-without-1m-loan]Virginia”>http://hamptonroads.com/2008/12/virginia-symphony-warns-bankruptcy-without-1m-loan)</p>
<p>[Dallas</a> Symphony Orchestra almost bankrupt](<a href=“http://digitaljournal.com/article/314286]Dallas”>http://digitaljournal.com/article/314286)</p>
<p>[NM</a> Symphony Orchestra Files Bankruptcy - Albuquerque News Story - KOAT Albuquerque](<a href=“http://www.koat.com/r/27614247/detail.html]NM”>Albuquerque, NM News, Weather and Sports - KOAT Channel 7)</p>
<p>I’m running out of time to copy and paste all of them, do a Yahoo search for symphony bankrupt to see the others.</p>
<p>FOR OPERA</p>
<p>[Baltimore</a> Opera seeks Chapter 11 protection - baltimoresun.com](<a href=“Entertainment - Baltimore Sun”>Baltimore Opera seeks Chapter 11 protection)</p>
<p>[Will</a> the New York City Opera Go Bankrupt? – New York Magazine](<a href=“http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/52435/]Will”>Will the New York City Opera Go Bankrupt? -- New York Magazine - Nymag)</p>
<p>[Recession</a> lowers curtain on U.S. opera - Washington Times](<a href=“http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/11/curtain-falls-on-opera-companies-as-recession-hits/]Recession”>Recession lowers curtain on U.S. opera - Washington Times)</p>
<p>[Lyric</a> Opera to file for bankruptcy protection | UTSanDiego.com](<a href=“http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/14/lyric-opera-file-bankruptcy-protection/]Lyric”>http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/14/lyric-opera-file-bankruptcy-protection/)</p>
<p>[San</a> Antonio Opera in bankruptcy talks](<a href=“http://www.statesman.com/news/texas/san-antonio-opera-in-bankruptcy-talks-2175992.html?cxtype=rss_texas]San”>http://www.statesman.com/news/texas/san-antonio-opera-in-bankruptcy-talks-2175992.html?cxtype=rss_texas)</p>
<p>IN CONTRAST - Here are a few artists/companies/productions that have MADE money</p>
<p>[Hugh</a> Jackman Shatters Broadway Box-Office Records - The Hollywood Reporter](<a href=“http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hugh-jackman-shatters-broadway-box-277234]Hugh”>Hugh Jackman Shatters Broadway Box-Office Records – The Hollywood Reporter)</p>
<p>[MARY</a> POPPINS in Brisbane Breaks Box Office Record](<a href=“http://australia.broadwayworld.com/article/MARY-POPPINS-in-Brisbane-Breaks-Box-Office-Record-20120222]MARY”>http://australia.broadwayworld.com/article/MARY-POPPINS-in-Brisbane-Breaks-Box-Office-Record-20120222)</p>
<p>[Spider-Man</a> Turn Off the Dark Breaks Broadway Record | Superhero Hype](<a href=“Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark Breaks Broadway Record - Comic Book Movies and Superhero Movie News - SuperHeroHype”>Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark Breaks Broadway Record - Comic Book Movies and Superhero Movie News - SuperHeroHype)</p>
<p>[Book</a> of Mormon tickets break Broadway records | Crain’s New York Business](<a href=“http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20110616/FREE/110619902#]Book”>Book of Mormon tickets break Broadway records)</p>
<p>[Broadway</a> Breaks Box Office Record for 2008-09 Season - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/26/broadway-breaks-box-office-record-for-2008-09-season/]Broadway”>Broadway Breaks Box Office Record for 2008-09 Season - The New York Times)</p>
<p>[Adele</a> Breaks Record By Selling 730,000 After Grammys | News | VH1.com](<a href=“http://www.vh1.com/news/articles/1679672/adele-breaks-record-sales-grammy.jhtml]Adele”>http://www.vh1.com/news/articles/1679672/adele-breaks-record-sales-grammy.jhtml)</p>
<p>[Jay-Z</a> Breaks Billboard Top 10 Record | lestarsmagazine.com](<a href=“http://lestarsmagazine.com/2011/12/08/jay-z-breaks-billboard-top-10-record/]Jay-Z”>http://lestarsmagazine.com/2011/12/08/jay-z-breaks-billboard-top-10-record/)</p>
<p>Um, I thought Berklee taught pop music…</p>
<p>voiceteacher,
here’s yet another well respected pop music program: [USC</a> Thornton School of Music : Admission: Application Requirements: Popular Music](<a href=“http://www.usc.edu/schools/music/admission/appreqs/popular_music/index.html]USC”>http://www.usc.edu/schools/music/admission/appreqs/popular_music/index.html)</p>
<p>I don’t want to go much further off track here since the OP (spiritmanager) was NOT posting about just Pop music, but Indie classical. Let’s all go back to the first post and actually READ the interesting article submitted by spiritmanager.</p>
<p>And spiritmanager…KNOCK IT OFF> I can hear you banging your head against the wall all the way down here in LA. ;)</p>
<p>Carry on.</p>
<p>Oh, good - I thought it was the furnace acting up again. ;)</p>
<p>It’s not all gloom and doom, even for regular old classical music (although I do recognize the challenges).</p>
<p><a href=“Emboldened Orchestras Embracing the New Music - The New York Times”>Emboldened Orchestras Embracing the New Music - The New York Times;
<p><a href=“http://www.polyphonic.org/harmony/11/Audience_Music.Dempster.pdf[/url]”>http://www.polyphonic.org/harmony/11/Audience_Music.Dempster.pdf</a></p>
<p>[Bravo</a>, Gustavo! How Maestro Dudamel Is Saving Classical Music - The Daily Beast](<a href=“http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/02/05/bravo-gustavo-how-maestro-dudamel-is-saving-classical-music.html]Bravo”>http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/02/05/bravo-gustavo-how-maestro-dudamel-is-saving-classical-music.html)</p>
<p>Lol, musicamusica and stradmom. My thoughts exactly.</p>
<p>These young musicians are finding that there’s more ways to create intelligent and beautiful music outside the old classical institutions or the tired corporate controlled popular music companies (Disney, Viacom, Sony et al) Social media and youtube has given young artists and their smart young audience some interesting and fantastic options that enables them to work outside the old well worn path. D knows several classically trained musicians in little start up ensembles playing packed crowds in night clubs, bars, and galleries. In fact in a months time she and several other singers have an evening of new music arranged around a gallery opening here in LA. And strangely enough money is being made.</p>
<p>Do you guys really think I’m banging my head against the wall? I’m not actually advocating anything! In fact just saying there are more opportunities and different paths out there available to our kids than we once might have considered. That the world of music is expanding and not shrinking for them. Which I think is exciting! (Despite the current gloomy economic outlook for traditional classical institutions.)</p>
<p>no…just kidding…I didn’t want to send your thread into an argument as to whether or not there are any actual pop music programs out there!</p>
<p>“What types of people/organizations are paying for new classical compositions”?? Well, let’s start with the fact that virtually every major orchestra has a “Composer in Residence”, who is selected by a jury based on his/her work, and that person’s sole job for the 2-3 years that they hold the position is to write new works for the whole orchestra and smaller ensembles. Major opera companies- and some smaller ones as well- commission new operas regularly. One such work was just announced yesterday by the Lyric Opera of Chicago:
[Lyric</a> Opera of Chicago](<a href=“http://www.lyricopera.org/pressroom/lyric-announces-world-premiere.aspx]Lyric”>404 Page Not Found | Lyric Opera of Chicago)</p>
<p>The Met Opera and Lincoln Center Theatre have an ongoing program to create new works to perform at their respective theatres. It’s been up and running for over 5 years now:
<a href=“http://www.metoperafamily.org/metopera/news/press/detail.aspx?id=2763[/url]”>http://www.metoperafamily.org/metopera/news/press/detail.aspx?id=2763</a></p>
<p>The Seattle Opera has a very active commission program and had great success with “Amelia”, which debuted in 2010:
[Entertainment</a> | Seattle Opera commissions new work | Seattle Times Newspaper](<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/entertainment/2003636307_opera26.html]Entertainment”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/entertainment/2003636307_opera26.html)</p>
<p>Daniel Cat</p>
<p>I’m glad to hear that classical isn’t quite dead yet. It’s a lot my my industry though. </p>
<p>I own a offset printing company. 10 years ago I had 30 competitors in my county. I think I have 14 now. In another 10 years there will likely only be five or six. Ten years after that their might be one offset printer in my county, assuming my county keeps growing. There will always be a niche for most every profession, but I don’t know that we need massive training programs for niche jobs, while we almost totally ignore the mainstream jobs.</p>
<p>Everytime someone sends a business email, thats an envelope, a sheet of letterhead and a business card that we no longer print. Everytime a business gets a website, a printer gets a phone call from a customer explaining that they will no longer be ordering brochures. It’s not a bad think that industries die, it actually creates new opportunities. In my business we have expanded into signs and screen printing to replace the dying offset business.</p>
<p>The music industry is not much difference. There will always be a few opportunities in every type and area of music, but it’s time that more of our colleges take a look at training for pop music jobs.</p>
<p>Oh ya, and that list of indie peformers, I youtubed all of them. There is some good stuff there. Never heard any of it before, doesn’t play on my radio, I would classify most of it as pop (rock/folk/country), and if thats the way music is headed, maybe thats the way our colleges should be headed also.</p>
<p>Regardless, my radio has this “scan” button on it, in my area it picks up probably thirty or fourthy stations. Only one plays any classical or jazz, and that’s the station that if publicly funded. It likely wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t subsidized. Some of you may be so far into the music scene that you can’t see the reality of the situation. Again, Im not saying that classical or indie classical is dead, it’s simply not where the jobs are. Still don’t believe me? Then head to your local Best Buy store and take a stroll around the CD sections, figure out the ratio of classical music cd’s to pop music. there’s a reason that pop is called pop, it’s because it is POPULAR which is a good indicator that non-pop is not popular.</p>
<p>Now remember, I’m not saying this to be hurtful, only to be honest. I have a musician son who’s dreaming of a classical performance job also.</p>
<p>imagep, I think you are missing what some of us are trying to say- it’s a case of what is right for one may not be right for another. While one kid may be happy with pop/rock/country/folk, another kid might choose to gnaw her/his own arm off rather than be forced into such fields.
Thankfully, there are varied programs available and students can choose for themselves.
I’m sorry that your particular industry has been a “victim” of the digital progression, but you’re finding ways to adapt and fill needed niches. My D is pursuing what interests her and thankfully, has several options because she has planned carefully. After years of being married to a person who made good money but who was miserable each day and who did his level best to make everyone else as unhappy as he, I am delighted to see my children pursuing careers in interesting fields which make them feel happy and fulfilled.</p>
<p>Well, this thread has me banging my head against the wall. I think the main point here is that “new music,” as many call contemporary classical (there have been interesting problems coming up with a term, since “classical” actually refers to an historical time period) has become very inclusive, free from dogma and open to influences from other genres.</p>
<p>It is difficult to have a discussion of this unless everyone is familiar, even very familiar with, “new music”. Reading the article was interesting but it was a bit of a hodge podge. I did think Julia Wolfe’s comments about the pros and cons of the current freedom, or “lack of tension” for those who used to rebel against, for instance, academic serialism, were interesting. Rebellion created a “center that holds” and in some ways the new diversity is exciting, in others it almost feels chaotic, which is what she was saying.</p>
<p>Whatever. The important thing is that wonderful music is being written, and that is a good thing for composers, yes, but also for us audience members. I went to a fantastic concert last night by a conductorless orchestra, A Far Cry, a truly democratic, entrepreneurial group of musicians who have made their own, very impressive success. The program included Shostakovich, a joyful, rhythmic piece by a young composer named Kip Jones that had the entire room grinning, John Adams’ “Shaker Loops” and an arrangement of gypsy music.</p>
<p>Concerts with this type of program are intriguing, inspiring and…fun. We were on our feet, hooting and hollering. The future looks bright for new music, contemporary classical, whatever you want to call it, downtown, or uptown or out of town entirely!</p>
<p>Sorry, I just cannot resist a few more comments. I just wanted to add that colleges, universities and conservatories are certainly teaching modern and contemporary music. Music history and music theory classes reflect the entire history of what is sometimes called “concert music,” sometimes “serious music,” including “contemporary classical” or “new music.” There are also some schools that teach popular music and commercial music industry majors. The point is, that rigid barriers between the two may be breaking down. Popular musicians benefit greatly from classical training, and “classical” musicians are dabbling in other genres. There is also some cross pollination going on with mixed media, film, dance, technology and other artistic fields.</p>
<p>Over the long term, artistic value is not measured in money or success. And often it takes time to really clarify that value: Beethoven was reviled at first (I think he had tomatoes thrown at him). There has always been a distinction between entertainment and art, and I think that is another barrier that may be breaking down, along the lines of Spirit Manager’s initial post. For many years, new music was cerebral, dissonant, and hard to understand let alone enjoy for most listeners, even those who were educated in music. Beauty was too “accessible” and to be looked down on. (Listen to David Lang’s more recent music for beauty, by the way. He was mentioned in the article.) This was true in other artistic disciplines (modern dance for instance).</p>
<p>If anyone wants a list of contemporary (or modern) composers to listen to, I’m sure that posters here could provide a list. It’s been done before, so you could also do a search.</p>
<p>As for making a living…musicians are becoming very enterprising and making their own opportunities, more and more. Composers who network and who are entrepreneurial are also making their own opportunities. For those who don’t (yet or ever) make a professional living, there is always a chance to make art while having a day job. Actors, dancers, musicians, and visual artists have always done that. Waitressing to support one’s composing is fine, and so is working in the administrative office of an orchestra, or teaching high school, or selling stocks, or practicing medicine, or whatever else one finds bearable and sufficient to live on.</p>
<p>So well said Compmom. I tried to give a broad spectrum of artists. Mark O’Connor has written several “classical” pieces that are amazing. His Triple Concerto is a good example.
Eigth Blackbird and Alarms Will Sound are examples of “classical” groups which play modern music and have suceeded in a hugh way. Both were originally formed out of conservatories. Blackbird-Oberlin and Alarms-Eastman. As alluded to by Compmom, “classical” music is broken up into periods such as Baroque, Romantic, Classical etc. To have a deep inner meaning discussion of the subject, we need to talk in those terms. But let’s just enjoy music.</p>
<p>Funny you should mention Eighth Blackbird, who introduced me and my daughter to “new music” for the very first time quite a few years ago. They came to our local and quite conservative music festival and some of the traditional patrons were unhappy, but the rest of us were so happy with the concert.</p>
<p>They had a piece in which a letter written from Attica Prison after the riot there was read by one of the musicians with great dramatic skill, set to an incredibly poignant piece of music. There was a piece that was played over and over, starting with a different measure each time, until there was only one measure left, and the musicians were not all in sync. They said the effect was different at every concert. (This may sound trite to some at this point, but for us it was a brand new thing to think of music so flexibly). They also had a percussion piece with 4 musicians at a table facing us. There was a score with symbols for various hand movements, which made us think about the whole idea of notation. The score was intriguing, and so was the percussive effect. Also, it was beautiful to watch, like a dance of hands.</p>
<p>In our area there was a group called Composers in Red Sneakers. They all wore red sneakers, and outside any hall they played in, there was always a giant red sneaker. You got in for a discount if you wore red sneakers yourself. They packed the place. Boston Modern Orchestra Project does club and hall concerts with contemporary composers and also gets a crowd. NEC has concerts of student works that is so fun to attend. NYC, at the Tank, Poisson Rouge and traditional venues as well, has all sorts of things going on. Spirit Manager knows San Francisco.</p>
<p>The music may be harrowing or tragic or fearless or whatever, but there is sometimes this element of…fun…too.</p>
<p>And some of us are so lucky to have kids who introduce us to these things and continue to educate us!</p>
<p>I am sure your comp students know about this, but I’ll post in nonetheless:</p>
<p>[Artist</a> Opportunities | REDCAT](<a href=“http://www.redcat.org/about/artist-opportunities]Artist”>Artist Opportunities | REDCAT)</p>
<p>The deadline for submission has been extended to March 9</p>
<p>Matt Albert who was a founding member of the Eighth Blackbird now teaches at SMU. When he came to my son’s high school, he did a master class on one of my son’s compositions. Talk about priceless! Matt also heads the new music group at SMU. Last fall, they did Reich’s Music for Eighteen Musicians. It was amazing to watcxh the interaction of the musicians with their instruments, the music and the visuals.</p>
<p>Compdad that’s great for your son and an honor I’m sure!</p>
<p>I saw Reich’s Music for 18 Musicians, (well , I heard and saw!) at NEC a few years back. It was an entire evening of Reich’s works, and he sat near me with his baseball cap on, operating the board. Amazing work.</p>