@Hanna:
"“Yes, it’s true that not getting into the UIUC major they want can be a factor for some Illinois kids going to Iowa, but not so much for IU, which doesn’t have engineering, and whose business school is probably more selective than Illinois’.”
Keep in mind that, while UIUC admits pretty much all its b-school students straight from HS, meaning that there are very few slots open for internal transfers, Kelley fills many of its slots from applicants in the IU freshmen population. So you could have kids who didn’t get in to b-school straight out of HS at UIUC trying their luck at IU.
The following summarizes the placement results for our suburban Chicago public high school. The local community college was the most popular destination, but here are the top 20 four year schools.
College Enrolled
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 61
Indiana University at Bloomington 37
The University of Iowa 19
DePaul University 16
Miami University, Oxford 16
University of Illinois at Chicago 15
University of Missouri Columbia 15
Loyola University Chicago 14
Northwestern University 12
University of Michigan 11
University of Wisconsin, Madison 11
University of Colorado at Boulder 10
The University of Alabama 10
Purdue University 9
Michigan State University 9
Illinois State University 8
Marquette University 8
Texas Christian University 7
University of Notre Dame 7
Iowa State University 6
I expected to see more people attending UIC, NIU and the other in-state public schools. These schools do not appear to be considered as much of an option. The popularity of IU was somewhat surprising, as was Miami, Mizzou and Alabama.
Here are the top 20 colleges (in terms of # enrolled) for our suburban Chicago area high school (4 years of data). It tells a very similar story. Indiana, Iowa combined are getting nearly as many students as UIUC. Students scattered all over the midwest. I believe Alabama offers free tuition for NMSQT Finalists. That is probably pumping up their numbers.
Applied Enrolled
1 College of Dupage 304 270
2 University of Illinois 637 240
3 Indiana 653 149
4 Iowa 506 75
5 Miami of Ohio 307 64
6 Depaul 250 64
7 UI Chicago 246 60
8 Missouri 273 59
9 Loyola 227 54
10 Michigan 150 45
11 U of Wisconsin 179 43
12 Colorado 135 39
13 Alabama 115 38
14 Purdue 218 37
15 Michigan State 140 34
16 Illinois State 152 33
17 Marquette 238 31
18 Texas Chrisitian 118 28
19 Notre Dame 45 27
20 St. Louis University 133 25
My older girl just sent 15 applications to grad school including one to UIUC. All out of state, and all but one public schools (state flagships). While this was a fishing expedition for scholarships and TA-ships as much as anything else, it really showed that at the end, there are vast variations between OOS tuition even at state schools. In most schools the names of graduate students are listed in this or that department page and one can readily see how many have a foreign name or not - of course my girl has one too and she’s as American as they get).
I am troubled by the ‘nail the OOS’ mentality I have seen in many flagships including my alma mater of Purdue. But the answer is to shop around and take advantage of any education exchanges that may help bring your tuition to ‘semi-OOS’ level.
Seems that many kids (especially those from families who can afford it) are willing to pay up for “the college experience” when it comes to choosing neighboring flagships over UIC.
I think there is also the sense, among my daughter’s friends at least, that UIUC is the too familiar. A lot of them have parents who went there (I know a lot of engineers and accountants). Many of the highest achieving kids apply to UIUC but do not choose it as their first choice because they feel that the students there will be pretty much like the ones they have gone to school with for the past 12 years (smart kids from the Chicago suburbs). Granted UW, IU, Purdue, etc., will be much the same, but there seems to be a “grass is greener on the other side of the stateline” mentality. That being said, two of D’s friends (both very serious students) are there now and love the school. As I did—40 years ago.
^^yep. It’s really a no-brainer for a high-stats LAS-type student from Illinois who wants the big state-U experience. The state flagship at approximately $25,000 (or more) annual COA or UA for free? And that doesn’t even take the gridiron effect into consideration. At least one of D’s classmates (from a large suburban high school near Chicago) is taking advantage of UA’s generous and straightforward approach to merit aid. He would have been a prime candidate for UIUC.
@EllieMom, yep, the “grass is greener outside the state” syndrome seems more prevalent in the well-off suburbs of the bigger metropolitan areas. Especially in states where there is only 1 (or no) FBS-level flagship:
NY, IL, NJ, MD, CT, MA
Kids want a choice and teens (especially, IMO, and especially those who live in areas where the parents can generally afford OOS tuition), want to feel that they’re special and different from their peers.
What makes Rutgers and other NJ publics so apparently despised among NJ high school students, even in comparison to the situations in other northeast or mid-Atlantic states?
One thing is that NJ just doesn’t seem to have enough room for all their kids who want to go to college. They currently only have space for 50% of all NJ freshmen who want to attend 4-year institutions, it seems: http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d10/tables/dt10_232.asp
NJ produces more kids who go to 4-year colleges than MI or GA (and far more than NC or VA; 2 states with similar populations) yet has only slightly more freshmen in its colleges than AL, KY, LA, & SC.
Also, lacking a powerhouse football or basketball program or a campus/town that kids deem pretty/fun doesn’t help.
Neither does having only 1 public FBS-level research university (and a bunch of other smaller publics that many people outside of NJ have never heard of).
Very interesting list, BTW. IL produces almost as many 4-year college freshmen as (much bigger) FL and roughly half as many 4-year college freshmen as CA despite having less than 1/3rd the population. Roughly 2/3rds as many 4-year college freshmen as TX despite having less than half the population of TX.
Another thing to consider is that for some, going OOS is cheaper than attending Rutgers or other NJ publics as in-staters. This was what several younger friends from NJ related as a reason to attend CUNY colleges like Baruch and Hunter as commuters over their home state’s colleges.
But is that a cause or result of NJ students going elsewhere? If it were really an issue of impaction (i.e. lack of space to accommodate all of the NJ students), wouldn’t Rutgers be much more selective than it is, and not have to offer full rides to top-end students? The same applies to other NJ state universities.
@PurpleTitan That chart is tracking “Residence and migration of all freshmen students in 4-year degree-granting institutions…” Several states have large number of students enrolled in 2 year CCs. For example, Florida has 28 colleges that operate in 181 sites around the state, with an enrollment of over 900,000 students (compare to Illinois that has around 350,000 in CC’s).
Very interesting chart. It’s usefully for comparing how many students stay in-state, vs going OOS (Migration of students). Illinois is only behind NJ and TX in this regard, with 23,000+ students leaving the state and only 13,000+ students coming into the state. That’s 37% of freshmen that leave the state.
Who knows what’s going on in NJ, they have 59% of the freshmen going OOS. :-??
However, that is in line with states like Connecticut, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maryland. It’s larger population likely makes it more obvious.
True, geographically small states seem to lose a higher percentage of their HS grads because many kids want to go away for college, and even kids who want to stay near home would have OOS options.
@PurpleTitan - Thanks for posting the list for Northside Prep. It is much more Chicago centric than the suburban schools. UIC, Loyola and DePaul take the place of IU and Iowa, and Columbia College takes the place of the local community college.
A big reason that people are leaving Illinois is the economy. The state has the 6th lowest population growth in the country, and it trails all of its surrounding states in terms of percentage growth. It, along with New Jersey, are the two states with the highest out-migration of population. Maybe the people in Chicago are living in a bubble and don’t realize how bad things are in the city and state, but lots of kids use college to decide where to live after graduation, and Illinois is not high on that list.
As a grad of a typical NJ HS the tradition of going away to school for college goes WAY back to before my day in the 60’s. It is a function of many factors from the small size (every school is just too close to home) to high incomes and does include lack of space too. But the avg stats at most NJ schools are not that high so it’s more a choice to go away.And many do return.