UIC’s overall average ACT is in the neighborhood of 24-25. Many people have the wrong idea about UIC’s average student. It is an urban, public school. The feel of the campus is very different than UIUC and the like. It is also the only decent public university in the Chicago area.
There is no need for another public university in Illinois. They can’t afford the ones that already exist. The state has constantly cut funding for them. Only 10-20% of total funding at the University of Illinois system comes from the state. UIC has its own issues with IL Medicaid reimbursements at its clinics.
On a side note, UIC’s in-state undergrad population is at its lowest level ever. It is only 95%. Considering all the problems the school has faced, it has improved greatly.
People think of UIC as a cheap school, but it is not. Overall, of all the public universities, it has the second highest tuition. People think of it as cheap because many commute. The most expensive undergrad program in the University of Illinois system is UIC’s bachelors in Nursing program with a semester’s tuition and fees at about $9400.
The joke on campus is that UIC stands for University of Indians and Chinese. For graduate programs, there is a heavy international presence.
Wisconsin is not in my wheelhouse simply because my kid had to cut the list off somewhere and they were one of the ‘does not admit directly to major’ schools (although it is one of the few highly ranked schools with an app that is still open!). I did look in to it though initially for the very reasons you state (highly ranked program that seemed easy to declare as sophomore), and asked myself the same questions you are asking. Like what has happened at Illinois, and I suspect will happen soon at UC Berkeley, they will wake up one day and simply up the requirements for declaration. Students on the borderline will be SOL and have to declare something else. The department does not have unlimited resources after all and the strength of the program is hardly a secret.
Lets play a mind game. Your local state DMV receives it’s income from fees (instead of tuition), and doesn’t need an “allocation” from the state. Should the DMV declare itself a private (but non-profit, of course!!) business and refuse state oversight? >:)
L&S CS at Berkeley was a capped (enrollment) major during the dot.com boom of the late 1990s, but the enrollment cap was removed in 2005 during the subsequent crash. From then until just recently, an L&S student could declare L&S CS after passing the prerequisites with a 2.0 GPA. Due to increased interest in L&S CS, it is once again a capped enrollment major with a prerequisite GPA threshold of 3.0.
@Gator88NE: Well, State U’s don’t have to be exempt from oversight, but if the DMV had any selective program yet received no money from the state, the only reason it would still discriminate between in-state and OOS would be due to political pressure.
@bomerr, so you haven’t really contributed to CA’s tax base. Forgive me for not having much sympathy for your feelings of aggrievement.
@YZamyatin, I know someone who declared for UW-Madison’s CS program during the height of the dot-com bubble (the last time that a ton of kids wanted to become CS majors). Yet even back then, it was pretty easy to declare for CS (B’s or higher in 3 CS classes, I believe he said; or maybe it was a 3.0 in 3 CS classes). Now it’s ridiculously easy (a C in one CS class). Of course, a college doesn’t actually have to limit the number of CS majors if they have the faculty and enough grad students to TA and big enough lecture halls (and if there is too much demand, then whoever has registration priority, which is generally by class, can get in to courses first).
Keep in mind that kids may come in with AP credits, so start with sophomore standing, reach senior standing by their 3rd year, etc.
I don’t know how many CS professors and grad students/TAs each university has, but it could be that UW-Madison simply has more capacity left (or bigger lecture halls available; or something).
That junior/senior ratio is very strange, however. Does it mean that kids aren’t able to get in to certain required classes in order to graduate (can only do so if they have senior standing) or does it mean that the CS department has excess capacity, so they don’t mind their seniors “loitering” around taking extra CS classes and not graduating? Or there’s so much excess capacity that even some juniors don’t feel the urgency to declare for CS?
BTW, I know that UW-Madison has roughly half as many CS majors working at Google as UIUC. Evidently, they generally have half as many CS majors (or even less(!)) compared to UIUC, however.
Shows the peak, crash, and then run back up, but not any higher than previous peak. But boy, the trajectory is pretty steep and it is certainly through the peak now. Two years from now at the current rate is when my kid would be trying to declare, I dunno, I bet that 3.0 gets bumped up again before then…
Yeah, I’m probably overcautious, but my kid is not a CC kid (he couldn’t name the eight Ivy League schools if his life depended on it, probably doesn’t even know there are eight; I guess my efforts to inject a concern for prestigiosity have failed). He only wants to fill out so many apps, and even those he only does on the day they are due. As a parent, I have to guide him where I think he is least likely to make a big enrollment mistake. He is an extremely high aptitude kid, but not high responsibility kid at all, not yet. I don’t think I could send him to a school where he had to hit a certain GPA to get in to the program he wants.
@YZamyatin, no prob. Keep reading down the thread. Evidently CS major declarations now are up to 495. So far, it is still ridiculously easy to declare for CS at UW-Madison, however (a C in one CS class; they must have lowered the bar during the crash; and haven’t raised it yet) and the CS population is still smaller than UIUC. However, I understand that getting in to a major out of HS is prudent. That way, even a few C’s freshman year is not a huge deal.
Well, there is your explanation about AP credit. Students with lots of AP credit may stay for eight semesters, but spend three or four (instead of two) of them as seniors by credits. However, extra seniors can also be due to extra semesters, if students are taking full course loads (and thus accumulating credits – students taking light course loads will reach senior standing late) but not completing the subject requirements for their majors on schedule).
@ucbalumnus, right, but if you compare UW-Madison’s junior/senior CS ratio with UIUC’s junior/senior CS ratio, they’re still wacky.
UIUC has almost 40% more seniors than juniors in CS.
UW-Madison has 158% more seniors than juniors in CS.
Are that many more kids coming in with AP credits at UW-Madison than UIUC?
OK, UW-Madison does make it easier to pick up many (useless) AP credits as a 3 on any AP test will get you some credit. In fact, I thought the WI legislature requires them to give that.
*Useless, however, as many of them don’t actually meet distribution or other requirements; instead, they’re just something like “general electives” credit.
This is likely first year (or early 2nd year students) who have enough AP/DE/AICE/IB credits to be classified as juniors, but are still taking the core classes. My DD is currently starting her 2nd semester (at UF), and is still Calc and Physics classes, but is classified as a “Junior”. At UW, most don’t declare a major until they have (or are close) completed the classes (Calc, Physics, etc.), and sometimes that doesn’t happen until you’re classified as a Senior. Also, note that schools that have a significant number of co-op students, will have a much higher ratio of seniors to juniors. You have to be careful what you read into enrollment stats.
For those CS programs in the COE, you can find info on faculty on the ASEE website:
To me the problem is that UIUC wants more high quality students, and has had no plan to get them.
UIUC is an excellent University. Clearly, one of the premier public Universities in the country. I do not understand why they do not spend some money on increased marketing to students in neighboring states. With a modest marketing campaign, they could easily attract more US students without taking 10% of their class from China.
I don’t think they can “easily” take students from neighboring states. For one, all neighboring states have far cheaper in-state tuition compared to UofI’s OOS tuition. In fact, that’s true of pretty much the entire Midwest.
So keeping in mind that kids in neighboring states have far cheaper options and UIUC’s biggest draws are its engineering, CS, and accounting programs, let’s go compare state by state:
WI+MN: UW-Madison is in-state, b-school isn’t worse than UIUC’s, and engineering is good; not much worse than UIUC. Madtown is generally deemed more fun than Chambana as well.
IN: PU can be seen as on par with UIUC in engineering and IU has a better b-school.
IA: Has few people.
MO: Opportunity here. But someone good enough to get in to UIUC engineering likely can attend Mizzou for almost free.
UIUC could market more, but they’d have to draw from far away. Right now, they get some kids from CA who couldn’t get in to Cal/UCLA/UCSD as well as Jersey/East Coast, where there are few highly-ranked in-state/cheap engineering schools. Not a lot, though.
They really should target TX as the 7% rule at UT-Austin means that many smart kids get shut out there (and A&M’s culture isn’t for everyone), but the simple fact is that many highly-qualified Internationals (especially Chinese) are willing to pay UIUC’s list price OOS tuition for what UIUC has to offer while many OOS American kids are not. A much larger portion of OOS American kids care about stuff like whether the school is in a pretty/fun college campus/town and has a good football team compared to Internationals. For instance, let’s compare UIUC with UW-Madison from the perspective of OOS kids. Both have their strengths in STEM/quant fields, but UW-Madison is cheaper OOS, has a better football team, is in a town that is perceived as prettier/more fun, and is highly ranked in engineering, CS, and accounting. UIUC costs more but is ranked at or near the top in engineering, CS, and accounting. In the US, I get the sense that UW-Madison’s overall reputation is higher than UIUC’s because it’s good in many fields (including lib arts domains). In the Sinosphere, UIUC enjoys more prestige based largely on it’s ranking dominance in STEM/quant fields. UIUC admits mostly by major. UW-Madison mostly admits undeclared. More American kids like to explore. Chinese and other Asian kids (almost the whole rest of the world, in fact) are use to a system where you enter a major/department straight out of HS.
Is it a wonder that more Internationals are willing to pay up for UIUC while more OOS American kids go to Madtown to party and watch football games?
" I do not understand why they do not spend some money on increased marketing to students in neighboring states."
I haven’t looked up the pop figures, but I’m guessing the most populated neighboring state is WI. Why would one pay OOS for UIUC when you have UWisconsin in-state?
Indiana has a beautiful campus and Kelley is well-regarded.
Michigan (doesn’t touch, but I’ll call it close enough) of course has UMichigan -so same concept as Wisconsin.
Iowa has two flagships (UIowa and Iowa State) at cheaper prices.
I am unsure why you think it would be “easy” to market UIUC to neighboring states.