<p>I will be entering UVA in the fall as a mathematics/comp sci major. As a high school student, I've taken AP Calculus AB (Calculus I), did really well in the course, but I never took the AP exam and the class was not dual enrolled. I've went on to take more advanced courses (linear algebra, etc.) that have Calculus II as a prerequisite, and I've always done really well. I've taught myself all of calculus II and even a lot of multivariate. Why I was too lazy to take the AP AB exam is beyond me, but I am regretting it now. Whereas some of my credit may transfer for my other higher math classes, I don't have any calculus credit. I have absolutely no problem with single variable calculus, and I don't want to be stuck in a calculus I course as a freshman. I was hoping that the school would let me enter calculus II (even though I'm comfortable with most if its material, I'm not going to ask for anything higher, as I think calculus II is a fine entry point to "mature") as you can get instructor permission if you don't have the credit for calculus I. Is this permission hard to get? I feel like the calculus I course is for people who have never been exposed to calculus, and the school wouldn't have any problem with someone like me going on to the second year of it. Will UVA let me take calculus II? I signed up (but haven't paid) for the AP calculus exam, and I plan to take it this year if UVA won't let me do this. That will be a pain because, of course, I don't remember every single integral approximation, etc. from memory, and I would have to cram. I already have other AP exams for this year, and as a senior, I'm not too big on studying at the moment.</p>
<p>Why don’t you take the AP exam this may. There is still time…</p>
<p>Like I said, I will if I have to. But I don’t really want to cram for that when I have 5 other exams to take. I emailed the director of Calculus I and II at UVA, but I can’t email any teacher directly because Calculus II only has “Staff” listed. I am still waiting for a response.</p>
<p>LOL, take MATH 1320 - Calculus II and see how good you really are at math. That course is the biggest anal **** of all time. </p>
<p>^ In all seriousness though, you can skip all the calculus classes if you want, no one can stop you from skipping them. Calc I, II and III aren’t even considered part of the math major, they’re just prep courses for upper level math. With that said, I don’t advise skipping any of the calcs. I took Calc AB in high school and got a passing score, but I decided to retake it in college. </p>
<p>Why?</p>
<p>Because no one honestly cares the level of classes you take, only how well you do in them. Yeah, you might sound like a boss taking diff eq, probability and survey of algebra your first semester, but if you can’t ace them you’ll look pretty silly. Advice from a current math major, pad your GPA in the “easy” classes (which you’ll soon find out aren’t that easy), and take your time moving up. Even though I started at Calc I, I am now taking 5000-level stat and math classes as a second semester 3rd year. </p>
<p>Final Verdict:</p>
<p>Either start off in Calc I or Calc III - non-Honors/Honors. Don’t start off in 1320 unless you really really need it.</p>
<p>I would be fine starting in calculus III, but I figured I would not be permitted to do so. Are you saying that I can just enroll in it and no one will stop me? AP Calculus in high school is a huge joke. I agree that if your only knowledge of calculus coming out of high school is an AB course, retaking is probably the smartest idea. But I had taught myself calculus before taking AB, and have been teaching it to myself since. I’m not a math genius by any means, but I’ve spent a lot of time with single variable calculus because I find it interesting. Maybe I’m wrong and should start at the beginning, but I really don’t think I need it. I just can’t see the people at freshman orientation letting me take on calculus III when I have no credit. Will they really OK that?</p>
<p>Fermat - Have you decided if you are studying in the e’school? If so, call Thornton Hall and ask one of the two amazing women that run that place for assistance. They literally know everything there is to know about UVa SEAS. Be clear, concise, and listen carefully to their answers (take notes if you have to). Most of all, be sure to thank them. They will help you so much over your four years in SEAS and it pays to be appreciative.</p>
<p>Here’s a link with some phone numbers that should help. Look under First Year Advising: Frequently Asked Questions:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.seas.virginia.edu/advising/undergradhandbook.php#faq[/url]”>http://www.seas.virginia.edu/advising/undergradhandbook.php#faq</a></p>
<p>If you have questions, why don’t you call the head of undergraduate ed in the Math Dept. and speak with him or her about them.</p>
<p>Hmm…if you’re trying to decide between calc III and I, maybe the right course to take is calc II.</p>
<p>But seriously, II isn’t as bad as some people say. In fact, if your calc course was a “huge joke” then II might be just the right level for you.</p>
<p>However, if you do decide to take III, don’t take it with Tom Mark. He’s not a bad prof, but he teaches multivariable calc using differential forms - not the sort of stuff to learn straight out of high school.</p>
<p>Blueiguana–I’ve decided to stay in A&S so that I can major in CS as well as mathematics. AbelianGrape–the problem was I had spent all summer learning calculus, and then my high school forced me to take AB the following year even though I knew the material. It was incredibly boring, and during that year, my teacher was really cool and taught me most of the BC material. I went on to take linear algebra, but like I said, I was a fool for not taking the AP exam at the time. However, I don’t want to burden myself with that now when I’m studying for several other exams, not to mention I don’t have everything memorized and not using calculus heavily for a year may not turn out well (I plan to review over summer when I have the time.) Although I could handle III, I do think Calculus II is probably the right choice for me, although I constantly hear that it is such a terrible course. Is the same course it is everywhere else–series, vectors, polar equations, intro differential equations? I don’t see how it is so terrible. My main concern, however, is still whether the math department will me let take the course. They don’t allow you to test out at UVA (or do they?), so all I can do is talk to them. I emailed the head of the math department, and he said it was possible, but to wait until orientation. I just don’t want to be forced into calculus I when I really don’t think I need it.</p>
<p>To expand on the nature of Calc II: Calculus II is a weed-out course for everything else with math at UVA. You need to pass it to declare a math major, and to do most of the science majors; for everyone else there’s Applied Calc.</p>
<p>From what I can tell (not having taken the class), Calc II is lots and lots of hard integrals, and it’s designed to be fiddly and frustrating and make you want to hate math, so that only people who are actually good and/or motivated enough keep going with whatever they need it for.</p>
<p>Thus, it is not something you want to take if you can avoid it; I’m a math major who’s taking 5000-level classes and I would probably have to work pretty hard to get an A. I know it sounds awful, especially as a second-semester senior, but I would seriously consider studying for the BC exam and taking it in May. It’ll probably make the next few weeks suck, but it’s better than having to deal with the same workload for an entire semester, especially because if you take Calc II in college your grade actually counts; you can always fail the AP exam and take it anyway, but you should make the best out of the opportunity provided by the exam.</p>
<p>In terms of actual material, you’re probably fine with skipping to Calc III. If you’re good/motivated enough to teach yourself calculus in high school, you’ll either know enough or be able to pick up what you need to do fine, because no one past Calc II expects you to just remember how to integrate sec^6 x dx or whatever.</p>
<p>I would also expect that you’d be able to talk your way in. While it’s a little different, and I have less experience with, courses below 3000-level, the math department is not usually too picky about prerequisites if you can argue that you’re prepared for a class. The problem is that I strongly suspect that you would not be able to declare a math major (or an econ major, or a physics major, etc.) without having credit for Calc I and II. Someone might be able to correct me on this, though.</p>
<p>Thus, my advice is to study at least a little for the BC AP exam (maybe take a timed practice exam and see what score you get to figure how much time to put in) and see how you do. It will probably save you a lot of effort (whether it’s in taking Calc, or in talking your way into classes/majors) in the long run.</p>
<p>Yeah, I was always annoyed by integration by partial fractions or parts, but I got the hang of it eventually haha. Still not something I necessarily enjoy doing. </p>
<p>The UVA mathematics page reads, “Normally, the calculus sequence MATH 1310, 1320, and 2310 or its equivalent must be completed before a student can declare a major in mathematics.”</p>
<p>I just don’t understand why they would make “instructor permission” an option for the 1320 course in lieu of the 1310 credit if 1310 is absolutely necessary. It doesn’t make much sense.</p>
<p>Well, I answered my own question. From the UVA page: </p>
<p>“Students who have previously passed a calculus course in high school may elect MATH 1220, 1310, 1320, or 2310 as their first course, depending on placement, preparation, and interest. A strong high school calculus course is generally adequate preparation for MATH 1320 as a first calculus course, even if advanced placement credit has not been awarded for MATH 1310.” </p>
<p>So I can take 1320, and I assume the college just considers my high school course the completion of 1310.</p>
<p>My first year son said there were some math wizzes who had trouble when they started out with 1320. You might also get an instructor with a strong accent, which requires an adjustment. </p>
<p>Remember that there are 1000 different adjustments you will need to make in your first semester, including many aspects other than academics. There is no need to start out with very demanding classes your first semester.</p>
<p>The “Normally, the calculus sequence MATH 1310, 1320, and 2310 or its equivalent must be completed before a student can declare a major in mathematics.” clause is trivial. If you walk into college and successfully complete Diff Eq or other upper levels, you can get the calculus requirement waived. </p>
<p>For example, my friend from TJ walked in with BC credit, but no credit for calc 3 (even though he did dual enrollment in HS). He took Diff Eq his first semester and got an A (he’s actually made A’s in all the core classes thus far). When he declared his Math major recently no one stopped him because he didn’t have calc 3. He proved that he didn’t need through UVA that way.</p>
<p>Anyway, to answer your question concerning enrollment, no one will stop you from signing up for calc 3 at orientation. They might go “OMG WHY?”, but they ultimately can’t stop you. Welcome to the freedom of college scheduling =p</p>
<p>Charlieschm–I don’t consider Calculus II to be very demanding, for me, anyway. I understand the stress over the class. It is the first introduction to difficult calculus–difficult integration techniques (by parts, partial fractions, etc), series, and probably a good deal of vector calculus, which I personally do not like. However, I have already learned all of these topics in the past. Learning those integration techniques WAS a pain, and had I learned it in a traditional setting, I would probably have done somewhat poorly grade wise. But I’ve been through that stress before, and now the class will only be review for me. That is why I am considering calc II instead of calc III, which would for the most part, outside of some simple things I know like partial derivatives from physics and double integrals, be completely new and demanding. And that is awesome to hear 110percent. I’ve always wanted for teachers to just let me take what I want if I feel prepared. I know I can easily get ahead of myself, but I like options. Like I said before, my high school forced me to take AB even though I self-taught it all to myself, which would have been unbearable had my teacher not given me BC stuff to work on.</p>
<p>Also, I have a leg up on the accent, as my current math teacher has a really strong one, and he is sometimes completely incomprehensible.</p>
<p>Fermat 25,</p>
<p>I am going to be a physics/math major at UVA in the fall (just sent in my acceptance fee- yea!!!). I strongly suggest taking the BC calculus exam in May so you can skip the weed out class of Calc 2. The BC exam is an hour or two of your time. I took it as a junior and did not think it was that hard. Plus, it has a pretty forgiving curve to boot. Also, although you may be able to sign up for any math class you want (not sure about that as most courses have pre-req’s or permission of instructor), you are not eligible to declare a math major until you have taken Calc I to III.</p>
<p>Impressed you took linear algebra. At my school, we do multi-variable senior year and have no linear algebra option. </p>
<p>On a different note, does anyone have any suggestions for whether I should take 2310 or 2315 since I had multi-variable already. Also, any way to get out of that course, such as by dep’t examination? Thanks.</p>
<p>If you found by parts and partial fractions vaguely difficult at all, you need to take calc ii. Did you do all of those messy trig integrals (not the ones you memorize… the ones that go to arctan and/or use partial fractions?)? You are expected to be a by parts master at the minimum.</p>
<p>I am one of those nerds who came in and took Survey of Algebra (best class ever) and Probability my first semester. I almost didn’t qualify for my degree because I never took Calc I and had to have my advisor override requirements for me (so it’s possible to graduate without the calcs but your advisor will need to do some work for you). My background is that I took and transferred Calc II, III, and Diff Eq at Villanova at night/summers in high school while taking AB/BC. Like you, I thought the AP exams were stupid. So after I took the AB class (signed up for BC the next year, so I saw no reason to take the AB test if I were going to get an AB subscore for free the next year) I decided to take Calc II over the summer because it was just one extra chapter than I had done in AB in the same exact book. It was a really hard class even at Villanova, where Diff Eq was the most ridiculous excuse for a class ever. The professor only gave 1 A that summer, to me, and the next semester didn’t give any A’s at all. The first test I thought I failed but I got it back… 59… out of 60. It was very theoretical and I didn’t have that background from high school but I apparently did take home magic on it. Anyways. My point is that UVa calc is even harder than that. You could consider taking a Calc (I, II, or III) class at a local college over the summer before UVa like I did (I took Diff Eq the summer before matriculation) and it would be easier and a decent use of your time. The AP exam, at $82 or whatever they charge now a days, is a lot less than a college course, though, so I would still stay signed up for that and try it out. Are you signed up for the AB or BC exam?</p>
<p>But seriously, if by parts was at all difficult for you, you need to take the calc sequence. You’ll be called on at various points to do Newton method, Taylor series multiple times, by parts and maybe even partial fractions integrals, double and triple integrals, etc AT WILL and you need to be strong at those skills so that you can focus on learning the new content and not remediating your weakness in calc. You seem like a smart kid, and it would be stupid for you to get bad grades at UVa math because of calc.</p>
<p>In Calc II at UVa you start learning multivariable, because Calc II is the prereq for probability, which has double and triple integrals all over the place. UVa has a vaguely normal order from what I understand, compared to UPenn for example, but they still do things in a weird order compared to the norm for some things like intro’ing multivar in calc 2.</p>
<p>Anyways, hope this post is helpful and feel free to ask any other questions.</p>
<p>Thanks, hazelord. I didn’t find integration by partial fractions/parts that hard when I learned it, but it was hard in comparison to every other thing I had done. Sometimes I say hard when I mean time consuming, because most of the time when I know I can get to the end of a problem, I don’t even bother to solve it. Yeah, I’m lazy, but I don’t enjoy solving problems that I know I can solve. It defeats the purpose. (I know I’ll have to work on this). That type of integration actually required my attention and time, which was pretty cool really. I just don’t understand the rave about calculus II. I learned this material on my own, and while it was hard in comparison to the calculus I had learned, it never stumped me or drove me crazy. It required more thought and time. That is pretty much it, so I don’t understand the huge animosity towards the course, especially for someone like me who has already been acquainted with the material. I have been away from in-depth calculus for a while now, even though we use integrals in my physics C class, it is nothing like calculus II stuff. I think calculus II is the right course to get me back into the rythmn, whereas calc III may be too much. Calc I will just be boring. I hope you can see where I am coming from. I know most of the material and even some introductory multivariate, but I am not a master of it, which is why I need calculus II. I can clearly say I am a master of taking a derivative or evaluating a simple integral. I don’t need calculus I. </p>
<p>Also, I find your calc I situation interesting. As I previously said, UVA’s mathematics page reads: </p>
<p>“Students who have previously passed a calculus course in high school may elect MATH 1220, 1310, 1320, or 2310 as their first course, depending on placement, preparation, and interest. A strong high school calculus course is generally adequate preparation for MATH 1320 as a first calculus course, even if advanced placement credit has not been awarded for MATH 1310.” </p>
<p>You taking AB without the college coursework would put you in this situation, so I don’t understand why they would allow such a thing if it is in anyway going to conflict with you obtaining your degree. Will they just override requirements for everyone who does this? Also, I know I could probably get a 4 or 5 on the BC exam, but that doesn’t mean I know the material to the extent I want to. To be honest, I knew nothing about Mechanics and got a 4 by the grace of god.</p>
<p>It was the first year the current SIS system was in operation, so it was probably just a bug. I jokingly told my advisor I would take Calc I if I couldn’t graduate without it and she laughed. I hope they’ve fixed it by now, a lot of people skip calc i.</p>
<p>Hey Fermat25. Here’s something that needs to be said that hasn’t been said in this thread: You are basically allowed to enroll in any undergrad class you want and no one will stop you. I’ve messed around a lot with the prereqs and flat out ignored some of them and no one ever stopped me from taking a class. The important thing is that if you are going to completely skip a class you need to have a replacement for it in mind.</p>
<p>I suggest that you go ahead and sign up for Calculus II, if you are confident about your understanding of the Calc I material (which it seems that you are fine with). I personally found Calc II to be extremely easy and barely did any work for it. If you are the kind of person who is used to messy algebra then it should be a breeze. That’s the main problem people seem to have with that class, it can get messy and people just don’t have to computational brute force to go through with the problems. I’m using that term very lightly though as the kind of computational messiness you have to go through in that class is nothing compared to some of the 300-level physics classes (try quantum mechanics to understand the true meaning of that term).</p>
<p>If you’re comfortable with linear algebra and have had some exposure to proof-based math (and are also serious about math) then I’d also suggest that you try advanced linear algebra. That class should be give you the challenge that you are looking for. If you don’t think you can handle it your first semester then I’d recommend taking survey instead. That should be a much more doable class. If you know basic linear algebra I’d suggest avoiding Elementary LA (3351). I took Calc II and Elementary LA my first semester and I wish I had taken Advanced instead.</p>