<p>Hi, I'm a sophomore right now at a decently large (about 500 in my class), but not necessarily competitive high school in N Illinois. I know that a lot of people that go to MIT have participated in both the Intel and the Siemens competitions, and I am just wondering how exactly you started doing these competitions. Is it something that the school brings up, do you talk with teachers, or is it something that's very independent. I see that there are mentors that you have for your projects, so I would be inclined to believe that you have to work with people at your school to some degree.</p>
<p>I didn't.</p>
<p>Sorry to be cheeky, I'm sure lots of people on this board can give you advice on getting started, but I'd just like to point out that it's not at all necessary to get in to MIT. So don't feel like you "have" to.</p>
<p>Of course, if you're interested in doing it, go for it! Sorry for not actually being helpful. =P</p>
<p>I didn't do it either, but you asked for advice so I'd thought I'd offer it.</p>
<p>First thing is to just start doing research. All you have to do is email a professor at a university that's reasonably close and say you are interested in doing research. Try to get on your own project or a small part of the project. (Don't worry. You don't have to formulate a research project on your own. If you do later on, then that will help you at intel but it's still pretty rare.) In the first couple of months you will probably be assigned to a grad student to teach you the techniques and how to do research in general.</p>
<p>The goal for the first few months is to become proficient in the techniques and then learn how to reason in the field. I'd say you need at least summer's worth of research in order to possibly have something to submit.</p>
<p>In the beginning, though, don't worry about intel specifically. </p>
<p>You might mention that you would like to develop your own project for the intel competition just so your prof doesn't have you just helping out or doing one technique over and over.</p>
<p>I didn't even KNOW about the existence of these things until after applying to MIT (which caused a lot of worry that it would hurt me a lot...). I'm sure these competitions have websites, though, I'd suggest reading stuff on there.</p>
<p>I've done siemens, intel, and am going to ISEF in a couple weeks. I'd pretty much second what collegealum said and also like to add that it doesn't have to be during the summer. The bulk of my research was after school work for my junior year and senior year. If you can devote considerable amounts of time each week, it works out well. I only used the summer to prepare my paper and submissions. It's pretty much all up to you unless your school has a history of having kids do research. If it does, there's probably going to be a research advisor person. Otherwise, just find somebody and do it on your own. Have fun!</p>
<p>I did Siemens in HS, was a semifinalist...a friend of mine and I did all of the research on our own (it was in math/theoretical CompSci), and had our CS teacher sign off as an "advisor" or whateaver the term was (maybe it was "supervisor"?) even though he didn't even know about it until we were done. PM me if you want any specific info about what we did.</p>
<p>Make sure it's a topic you're actually interested in - also, doing it with one or two other people makes it easier, and actually might even look better, because a lot of science research in the "real world" is collaborative. </p>
<p>Didn't help me get into MIT, though. I'm at UIllinois Urbana at the moment, applying to transfer out.</p>
<p>Ditto collegealum314. S started working with a local prof junior year. He emailed a couple profs at the school, interviewed, chose one, and they started getting together every week or two. Because his project was theoretical, he didn't need lab space. Most of his work was done at home.</p>
<p>He did not do his project with the intention of submitting it to Siemens and Intel, though he ultimately did, and did very well. I think that spoke to his unexpected finding (which the mentor specifically discussed in his letter), a very well-written paper and the sheer enjoyment he got from his work.</p>
<p>Don't do research because you think it will get you into MIT. Do it because you love it. The awards are purely secondary, and their use as a hook is questionable at best.</p>
<p>bball - I'm heading to ISEF too, hope to see you there!</p>
<p>I've done projects for entry to ISEF all four years, but this is my first year to advance past State level (Texas's SEF is huge!) You don't need a lab at a university or a professor's assistance to be able to create an awesome project. My project this year was done independently of any supervisor (well, my Biology teacher was my "sponsor" but she didn't really help me). </p>
<p>If you're interested in starting a project, first go and search out some of the current pertinent research being done in the world - a lot of the online science databases will allow you to view abstracts about current studies. Find a subject area you really enjoy and start asking yourself all the questions you can about it. Pretty soon you'll hit upon something you wanna study more in-depth, and voila~!</p>
<p>Also, check out this thread of beautiful reads =)
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/473020-how-do-sci-fair-finalists-conceive-winning-topics.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/473020-how-do-sci-fair-finalists-conceive-winning-topics.html</a></p>
<p>Well, personally my projects that have won awards at the Intel ISEF, Siemens Competition, and other things of that type in the past have been research projects that I have done myself without actually working in a lab under someone. However, if you live close to some type of research facility or major university, it doesn't hurt to get in touch with someone there in the area you are interested in working in and maybe also to get some guidance and borrow equiptment (that's what I did). But I think, like some others have said, these things are not necessary to get into a top college. Moreover, winning lots of recognition in these sort of things does not guarantee admission into any college.</p>
<p>People on collegeconfidential seem to think by winning some of these things you are a lock for schools. Believe me, you aren't.</p>
<p>@bballdude and vivi:
Best wishes at ISEF!</p>
<p>hmm...how long does one have to do research in order to have something that might be submittable?</p>
<p>Intel/Siemens: Can same project be submitted to both competitions? Thanks!</p>
<p>My program at my high school required students to submit to ISEF at least twice. Research competitions were something we did well...so well that ISEF made the school its own region, because nobody from any other school in the old region had gone to Internationals in so long.</p>
<p>My projects (one in health/medicine, and one in comp sci) were award-winning at the regional level, and neither of them were done in a university lab or with a supervisor. Of course, the nice thing about working in a university lab, whether you enter competitions or not, is that if your supervisor knows professors at your future university, your supervisor may be able to get you a research job with one of those professors starting in your first semester.</p>
<p>Yes, the same project can be (and many are) submitted to Intel, Siemens, -and- ISEF. The same project can even go toward other competitions such as YES and JSHS, too, provided your research topic falls within the ground covered by every competition.</p>
<p>As for how long it takes to have "submit-able research," sometimes it takes only the course of a single summer, though that's more rare, and obviously, the longer the project has been ongoing, the more (significant) results you will have.</p>
<p>Note: Siemens doesn't take social science projects, but otherwise, yes, you can submit to all three. Further note that ISEF primarily involves a display board; Intel STS and Siemens only require a board if you get to the STS Finalist or Siemens Regional Finalist levels. Siemens RFs also have to prepare a 12 minute Power Point presentation. Depending on your geographic region, a Siemes Regional Finalist may have as little as two weeks to prepare both the backboard and presentation. Just something to keep in mind as you suubmit to competitions and work on APs, applications, etc.</p>
<p>S spent about six weeks actually working on his project per se; however, he spent about two years in self-study and about four months with a mentor getting to the point where he understood the background well enough to come up with an interesting result. One caveat -- his work was very theoretical. He didn't need a lab or supervision, and in fact didn't tell his mentor his results until he had the proof written up and bullet-proof. </p>
<p>Jessie is absolutely right about the importance of the prof network. Every prof S spoke with in April (as he was deciding where to attend) knew S's mentor on a personal basis. S is looking at going into a small, specialized academic community. Work smart, be honest, treat people fairly. They may hold your future in their hands one day!</p>