<p>@Mastadon: well done! I’m still laughing. ^:)^ </p>
<p>In all honesty, I’m surrounded by engineers, both sides of the family. They task me; they heap me. </p>
<p>btw: it’s mastos (from the Greek “breast”) + odont (Gr. “tooth”), hence mast-o-don. 
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<p>Carnegie Mellon.</p>
<p>@drgoogle:</p>
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<p>I don’t know about Satre’s definition, but if you are working with MIT/Caltech alums (who both picked the beaver as their mascot) you might be able to have some fun with this:</p>
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<p>Seems like beavers do work really hard, and build some amazing things, but I think the tape player experiment does raise some legitimate questions.</p>
<p>I wonder what would happen if you brought one of those sleep machines (that simulate running water) to work…</p>
<p>@Ctesiphon, You might also take a look at University of Rochester. Its curriculum is very flexible, with no reqired classes, easily allowing double majors. Not “pre-professional” (RIT, five miles away, is). You can minor in Chinese or Russian at UR. </p>
<p>OP, I think you are focusing on the wrong thing. </p>
<p>Engineering programs are by their very nature pre-professional. The very best ones are also intellectual and attract students who love learning - the nerds. The kids who do it because it’s cool. Since these schools are medium to large, you can bet that there is a wide variety of attitudes, but those doing it for love, do exist and are plentiful. </p>
<p>Your son has great stats. I wouldn’t take any college off the table, especially Harvey Mudd. </p>
<p>Is your son intellectual in that he wants to study philosophy along with engineering, or is he intellectual in that he wants to study engineering for the “now” rather than for the “future”. If he wants to study for the “now”, I would venture to say that at the more selective private colleges, he will have a cohort of those types of students. </p>
<p>That’s not to say that there won’t be many students slogging through it for future considerations, but most quality engineering schools have plenty of folks for whom engineering is what they’d want to be doing anyway. </p>
<p>I hire those people and I can tell you that they exist. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t recommend a small LAC for engineering except for Mudd. If your S wants to study philosophy along with engineering, a school like Mudd or Rice will offer that at a very high quality. If your S wants to delve deep into the engineering, a private school that will ensure access to cutting edge research is the most desirable. </p>
<p>Some schools to look at are: Rice, Mudd, Northwestern, Cornell, Lehigh, Rochester, RPI, Johns Hopkins, Duke, Michigan (although public, they have UROP and it’s a great school), CMU, WUSTL and Vanderbilt. I would have included Case on that list, but if he didn’t like it, he didn’t like it. </p>
<p>As an engineer who does it for love (though the money is pretty good too), I can tell you that we exist. </p>
<p>Penn is also a great choice for Engineering and liberal arts. D is an Engineering major and is minoring in Classic Latin.</p>
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Great insights. Especially valuable is the distinction between being intellectual in the sense of being deeply interested in technological principles compared to the sense of studying philosophy too. </p>
<p>If he is deeply interested in other subjects besides technology then he would want to choose a school that is outstanding for those other subjects. </p>
<p>If he is mostly interested in the science of engineering, then choosing a school which has cutting edge physics, chemistry, and math departments might be the best choice.</p>
<p>One word of caution… Ivy League schools actually have a much more pre-professional feel than you might expect. Most Ivy students are achievement oriented and focused on the future, and less on a love of learning. Of course they are not so crass as to talk about career salaries, but they are extremely interested in their future careers. This does note mean that love of learning is absent, but don’t expect to naturally drift into philosophical discussions by accident at an Ivy League school.</p>
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<p>There should be many schools, both private and public, which offer good depth and cutting edge research in engineering, and good offerings in other subjects like philosophy.</p>
<p>NROTC wrote (but I can’t figure out how to put in quote box): "If he is deeply interested in other subjects besides technology then he would want to choose a school that is outstanding for those other subjects.</p>
<p>If he is mostly interested in the science of engineering, then choosing a school which has cutting edge physics, chemistry, and math departments might be the best choice."</p>
<p>@NROTCgrad You just described exactly what my senior is looking for. We’ve been to Duke, Princeton, RPI and will be going to U of Rochester. Any other suggestions for schools that offer what you describe above? Thanks.</p>
<p>I too don’t like schools that tout employment after college but that doesn’t mean all engineering schools are like that. At one company that I’ve worked, my immediate supervisor went to Yale and is Princeton professor with a PhD from Carnegie Melon and the technical chief went to MIT. Guess who was the most intellectual. The MIT guy. He was also super great to work with as in best mentor. I still have not found the exact boss in all of my years of working.</p>
<p>@twinsmom15
Take a look at Northwestern University. Outstanding engineering school and great intellectual tradition. I am a big fan of NU, and also of U.Rochester.</p>
<p>Personally, I think Rice University might have a near perfect combination. </p>
<p>Cornell is often considered the tech school of the Ivy League. </p>
<p>Boston University definitely has potential too, and is easier to get admitted than most of the others you are looking at. The city Boston, of course, is one of the most stimulating college towns.</p>
<p>In order to do a “quote box” you put the word “quote” in between these brackets [ ] at the beginning of the quote, and then “/quote” between brackets at the end of the quote. If you want the quote to be directly attributed to a persons name then your first brackets should say quote=name. Thus, for me you would write quote=NROTCgrad.</p>
<p>My DD is enamored with BU and is interested in engineering. The engineering program only has 1400 undergrads, is known for BME and it has no ChemE major. I am making heads or tails of whether or not this would be a good situation for her. Is it a good program outside of BME? How does the engineering department interact with the rest of the university?</p>
<p>@smokinact
Actually, I think it speaks well of BU that it has no ChemE program because that means that the engineering school knows its own limits. It does not have a civil engineering program either. In other words, it is targeted. 1400 students is actually quite a few. </p>
<p>University of Rochester and Tulane have similar limitations, although both have ChemE. </p>
<p>The only problem here is if the student does not know which branch they are most interested in. In that situation, it is best to have a full slate of choices, and might be smart to avoid engineering departments with only a few programs. </p>
<p>For what it is worth, Chemical Engineering is probably the most demanding engineering field; at least among the standard offerings (BioMedical is not yet a standard offering).</p>
<p>There is almost no such thing as a poor, or even below average, engineering program anywhere. Engineering, by its nature, requires high competency. Thus, engineering programs tend to range between “very good” and “amazing.”</p>
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I am not clear on exactly what this means, but I also have a feeling that this is not necessarily something to be concerned about. The student is the one who interacts.</p>
<p>@NROTCgrad - My daughter has expressed interest in a larger university (in her mind more opportunity) but also she wants to interact with more than engineering students and take an art class or two. I guess I my choice of wording wasn’t good.</p>
<p>@smokinact
Okay, good. Thanks for the clarification. I think BU is actually an outstanding school for what you have mentioned. Definitely large, with many opportunities for art and humanities. </p>
<p>Personally, my only real concern about BU is that its campus is not especially attractive. If BU seems like a good fit, then definitely visit before deciding to attend. Not necessary to visit before applying, but don’t choose it “sight unseen.”</p>
<p>Your DD should definitely apply to other universities too. For some reason BU and Tulane keep popping up on similar lists, even though Tulane is in New Orleans. On the other hand, students from the Northeast are the largest group at Tulane – far exceeding Southern students. So, take a look at Tulane.</p>
<p>@NRTOCgrad The first time we visited BU we just attended a class at the school and thought of it as ButtUgly, but when we did the campus tour the following year, DD just loved the vibe. She liked Pitt too. Too bad Tulane discontinued there Engineering program after Katrina.</p>
<p>@smokinact
You both have visited twice? And she likes the “vibe?” – Then I just recommend making sure that BU has the programs she is most interested in. Might even ask the question "what if this major does not work out, what would be my second choice? and make sure that the second choice is available. If BU is affordable, and a good match, all you need to do is ensure DD applies to a good “safety” school.</p>
<p>Pitt is a great choice too, at least academically. Great college town! Very underrated city and university.</p>
<p>Tulane still offers Biomedical Engineering and ChemE, which are located in its school of science and engineering. I have no doubt that both programs are excellent. But only if the student is sure of their commitment to those programs. Tulane does offer an Engineering Physics major, which is not a bad way to “punt” if BME or ChemE don’t work out.
<a href=“http://tulane.edu/sse/academics/undergrad/bachelors-programs.cfm”>http://tulane.edu/sse/academics/undergrad/bachelors-programs.cfm</a></p>
<p>Thanks again for all of the insights!</p>
<p>So is my son the philosophy type or the type who wants to study engineering for “now” rather than the future? Both really. He wants to get a minor in art, and study engineering because it’s cool. So we’re looking at schools where you can do that (WUSTL, Tufts, Lafayette, CWRU do art minors; Rice, Mudd allow double majors although that may be more than he wants; Northwestern and CMU seem to make it very tricky since they have separate schools for art, engineering, etc.</p>
<p>It was mentioned that Rice had a high % engineers going to grad school. Is there a good site to look at this data for other programs?</p>
<p>If he is Interested in an Ivy, Cornell, Penn, and Columbia all have very good Engineering programs combined with broader educational opportunities. Cornell and Penn offer a fair amount of flexibility to explore your interests. Columbia is much more rigid. Michigan, Berkeley, and UICU.</p>
<p>D is in the Engineering college at Penn as a CS major with a minor in Classic Latin.</p>
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<p>I can’t imagine trying to double major at Mudd except in the specific double majors offered (I think there is math-biology combo, for example). I suppose it MIGHT be possible, but pretty difficult, and I think rarely done. The students there have a secondary concentration in a non-STEM subject, though.</p>