Interdisciplinary Studies+International Relations: Columbia vs. Stanford

College Search & Selection
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<p>At the moment, I am struggling to determine which school(s) (if any) I should apply Early Decision, Single Choice Early Action, or Early Action to. The struggle is rooted in several conflicting desires and doubts about which universities can meet my demands. I would like to study a somewhat odd mix of different fields. My primary interest is International Relations, and I ideally picture my future as an aid/human rights worker in Sub-Saharan Africa or the Middle East working 10 hours/day and writing/researching/reading by night. Originally I thought it would be good to do 4 years of undergrad and then enter the field, but I have since read of grad students doing work/studies similar to my plan.</p>

<p>In addition to international affairs, I have a strong interest in literature and philosophy. Particularly, I have read quite extensively the works of Rene Girard, starting with his analyses of the works of Dostoevsky, Joyce, Shakespeare, Stendhal, Cervantes, and Flaubert. However, for those of you familiar with Girard, you'll also know his career and application of the mimetic theory has been marked by four distinctive stages which have encompassed a wide array of academic fields: comparative literature, religious studies, political science, anthropology, history, and many others.</p>

<p>Another scholar up on my favorites list is Francis ***uyama, who too, although to a lesser extent, ties in multiple areas of study ranging from bioethics to existentialist philosophy.</p>

<p>To the point - the authors and professors I have read have shaped my interests to be broad (I would say ambiguous, but my interest in each field is resolute). I recently had a chance to meet with several professors from Stanford involved with Girardian theory and who also teach classes that connect majors such as French Literature and Political Science. Hence, Stanford has landed itself a high spot on my college list. I like the idea of their SLE program and focus on the humanities. Furthermore, you cannot go wrong with the school of Rene Girard and Jean Pierre Dupuy. However, I have doubts as to how strong their international affairs programs and opportunities would be considering the school's location and popular majors.</p>

<p>On the other hand, Columbia University, situated in the same city at the UN headquarters, appears to have a strong international affairs program. They also take somewhat of a liberal arts approach to education with a core requirement. One of the students I met who was majoring in some math/science major told me that one of their favorite classes was a contemporary lit class with 5 students in it that she had to take for the core requirement. Another major enticement toward studying at Columbia is life in the Big Apple.</p>

<p>So why not apply to Columbia? It's hard to compare with knowing some of the professors that may be teaching you next year. However, a major reason, and perhaps a poor reason, was a poor experience meeting current and prospective students. Several of the undergrad students I met seemed to have no genuine interest in acadamia. After insisting that I apply to Columbia, they mentioned that I ought to just apply to every ivy league in addition to 4 other schools as it is the only way to get in. They seemed to care more about the idea of an ivy league name than an ivy league education.</p>

<p>And how could I forget the dreadful applicants - the obsession over how many famous people they knew/were related to, neighborhood distinctions, etc. The prospective students were the most superficial kids I've met in my entire life. They effectively fulfilled the stereotype that the surface is everything on the east coast.</p>

<p>Yes, I realize that I should not judge the school on several bad experiences. I did, after all, meet one student who seemed like an extremely quirky and cool guy. Plus, there are bound to be dull, stuck-up students at any University. Still though, it is difficult to rid myself of the bias that came with these tragic encounters. I also have optimism that a school on the West coast and a non-ivy league may just have less of the aforementioned type of student, even if it is Stanford (I realize these are somewhat rash generalizations).</p>

<p>My ideal hope would be to get accepted at one of these schools and rejected at the other, such that I would not have to make a decision. But since the class of 2009 will already be the most competitive year of college admissions ever, I want to apply ED/SCEA somewhere so I can possibly know where I am attending college in December, avoiding any admissions-induced stress in my second and last semester of high school.</p>

<p>If you made it through this monstrous post, what are your thoughts, suggestions, etc?</p>

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<p>bump…</p>

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<p>Did I not give enough details? Or this just a real conundrum</p>

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<p>I think most people are tl;dr’d out.</p>

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<p>tl;dr’d out…typo or internet acronym/code I am not familiar with?</p>

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<p>too long; didn’t read : )</p>

<p>People might be more inclined to respond if a summary was provided?</p>

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<p>Alright, good idea. I’d edit the original post, but it won’t let me. So here’s a short summary:</p>

<p>I am trying where to apply ED/SCEA/EA. I like the openness to multiple areas of study at both Stanford and Columbia. Although I want somewhat of a liberal arts education, I want to focus on international affairs (I just want to be able to tie in Lit, Philo, and Antro classes as well). I like the professors&grads from Stanford with whom I’ve met and had discussions. Yet, my concern is that Stanford will have a weak international affairs program or lack in opportunities relative to Columbia, which is in NYC and near the UN. International Affairs, according to a few sources, is not a “big” major at Stanford. However, I’ve had a few poor experiences meeting stuck-up, dull Columbia students and applicants that have changed my perspective on the school. I also have not had the chance to sit in on classes or meet profs at Columbia.</p>

<p>Suggestions, questions, comments, etc. appreciated</p>

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<p>First off, Columbia does not have an international affairs major. The closest thing to it would probably be political science. Second, if you want a liberal arts education to supplement your major, then the core curriculum at Columbia fits your interests very nicely. </p>

<p>New York trumps any other city as far as “international opportunities” go. Also, each year Columbia hosts various world leaders as part of its World Leader’s Forum. This is a great opportunity for Columbia affiliates to go hear world leaders speak about various important issues.</p>

<p>Quite honestly, you sound like the prototypical Columbia College student as far as your interests go. I wouldn’t worry about the few kids you’ve met…I’m sure you realize that you can’t generalize about an entire population of students based on a small, unrepresentative subsample. By the same token, I don’t think you should worry about Stanford having a weak program. I’m sure that whatever they provide is top-notch. Choose based on which environment you think would suit you best.</p>

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<p>My impression of Columbia was exactly the same as yours (pseudo-intellectual+very stuck up) when I first visited and it was the first to go off my list. However, some of the greatest kids I personally know go to Columbia so I wouldn’t refrain from applying to Columbia because of the kids. Also, remember they are prospective, not admitted students so I wouldn’t worry too much. Stanford is very much known for its emphasis on interdisciplinary studies so you really can’t go wrong there. Furthermore, Stanford offers an international relations major which would probably suit your interests. Lastly, this “core curriculum” may sound great on paper but it is a significant part of your courseload at Columbia, not so at Stanford. At Stanford, there is SLE as you already mentioned and for those less liberal-arts inclined there’s IHUM. However, even though it is a part of your courseload, the requirements aren’t in anyway taxing after your freshman year at Stanford. I hope this cleared things up a bit!</p>

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<p>First, very amused by Francis’s edited last name in your original post… CC does that automatically to certain letter combinations, and my eye glided by it before I realized that three asterisk marks replaced the first three letters.</p>

<p>Second, I think that wondering if Stanford’s program in international studies isn’t “good enough” is a bit like Carrie Bradshaw wondering if her shoe collection isn’t big enough (and how she does it on a writer’s salary? Millions want to know!) I don’t mean to call you a snob, but I do mean to point out how absolutely subjective this “good program” stuff can be. Probably the best way to tell is Stanford’s program is right for you is to contact as many profs as possible to get to know if they are people you want to learn from. Some of my favorite profs ever (profs who have sped through my school at one point or another) teach at schools ranked in the 20’s, 30’s and 50’s by USNEWS, while my school is ranked in the single digits. I would do almost anything to take another class with them and sit in their office and talk about life.</p>

<p>Third, you may want to open up some of your options, particularly for applying early. It sounds like Columbia ED is not the best choice for you, because you aren’t totally in love with the school, but Stanford SCEA sounds like a good deal. Or you might fall in love with another ED or EA school entirely… okay, I’m going to try not to sell the University of Chicago right now, but I think it’s worth your looking into :-)</p>

<p>Fourth, I don’t think your experience at Columbia is reflective of the school itself. I don’t know much about it, but I do know people who are very intellectual and academic (and also not very outwardly social) who seem to really love it there. As a prospective among prospectives, you not only have no control over who you hang out with, but also these kids haven’t even been admitted yet (I’m assuming the context is a college visit) so they’re all into ponying themselves up for each other. Once you get to college, nobody cares about how cool you think you are!</p>

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<p>Thank you so much for the responses everyone! Thanks to your input, I have managed to draw quite a few solid conclusions, and one extremely important conclusion: I need not worry about Stanford’s International Affairs program.</p>

<p>In retrospect, I realize how silly that must have seemed. I tend to dramatize and misplace emphasis on random attributes when I consider that I will be attending the University for four year of my life. How quick I am to forget that the school I currently attend was not my first-choice, and I love it nevertheless!</p>

<p>I do want to make a few clarifications about my Columbia concerns. I attended their Model United Nations Conference last February, and that was when I came to be repelled - yet also attracted to - by the school. It was a combination of my experiences with two current Columbia students and numerous prospective students that led me to my concern. I am not making any sort of absolute condemnation. If anything, going to school with a different type of crowd is probably best for me as a learning experience (extremely cliche…I know).</p>

<p>And now to ask questions regarding specific posts (or simply make comments):</p>

<p>

I hope I didn’t sound ill-informed. When discussing majors online, I try to use one name so as to avoid confusion, as opposed to switching between global affairs, international relations, international affairs, political science, etc. Apologies.

It was actually when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (sp?) visited Columbia that the school initially caught my attention (despite my discontent with both President Bollinger and Ahmadinejad’s comments).

Excellent! This is the impression I have been getting.

One of the best names in academia :stuck_out_tongue:

I had to wikipedia this reference :(</p>

<p>I have more questions&responses and an update. I’ll post later though, as my dinner is ready (and my posts are unnecessarily long).</p>

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<p>Which is your first choice? Which do you like more? Apply to that one’s early program. From your post, you seem to like Stanford more. A few things:</p>

<p>Stanford emphasizes an interdisciplinary approach to education. In fact, this is explained in virtually every one of the publications that Stanford sends out. It offers a wide array of interdisciplinary majors and 13% of the students are in such majors (that’s more than engineering, which is the second largest category of student majors, ignoring the broad social sciences category). That said, Stanford offers a very strong IR major. Here’s the page for it:</p>

<p>[ICA[/url</a>]</p>

<p>You can also try the international policy studies:</p>

<p>[url=<a href=“http://ica.stanford.edu/?q=ips]ICA[/url”>http://ica.stanford.edu/?q=ips]ICA[/url</a>]</p>

<p>Or if you really like SLE and the humanities, you can try the interdisciplinary studies in humanities:</p>

<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/group/HSP/GPH/]Interdisciplinary”>http://www.stanford.edu/group/HSP/GPH/]Interdisciplinary</a> Studies in Humanities](<a href=“http://ica.stanford.edu/ir/]ICA[/url”>http://ica.stanford.edu/ir/)</p>

<p>Here’s a full list of interdisciplinary programs offered at Stanford:</p>

<p>[Stanford</a> University | Academics](<a href=“http://stanford.edu/home/academics/programs.html]Stanford”>http://stanford.edu/home/academics/programs.html)</p>

<p>You can, of course, design your own major, even, and with the 1,500 courses offered to undergrads and the myriad courses offered to grads that undergrads also have access to, you have plenty of options to design a strongly defined major.</p>

<p>Stanford also has top departments in English literature, comparative literature, and philosophy, and counts over 40 members in the American Philosophical Society in its faculty.</p>

<p>Another matter to consider is Columbia’s core; while you may like it, it may prove difficult to take classes in all your interests while pursuing a major and satisfying all the core requirements.</p>

<p>Columbia is an excellent school, obviously, and you can’t go wrong with either, but your post seems to show that Stanford fits you perfectly (though I might be a teeny bit biased! :)).</p>

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<p>

This is excellent to hear! Pretty much the only basis for my interest in Stanford is a great experience I had several weeks ago at an academic conference which featured quite a few Stanford professors, phd students, and grad students.</p>

<p>I am assuming you are a University of Chicago student or alum…I recently had the pleasure of attending one of Professor W.J.T. Mitchell’s lectures on the Abu Graihb photographs (and I was lucky enough to have the closing comment :P). Furthermore, I greatly enjoyed UChicago’s high school Model UN conference the two times I attended, especially the incredible sense of humor of the college students running the committees. The University of Chicago would be a candidate for ED were it not for its location. It’s actually the only school in the midwest to which I am applying. Although I am sure the south side of Chicago would be a new living environment, I am somewhat eager to discover a new region of the country since I’ve had little to no substantial traveling/vacation experiences.</p>

<p>Nevertheless, I would still love to go to UChicago. And as money dictates where I go to school more than location, UChicago is still one of my top choices being in such close proximity (just a few CTA train rides away). </p>

<p>Thanks very much for the insights unalove (and everyone else, this post was more directed toward her post)!</p>

<p>One last question. I should first clarify that I do not expect to get into Stanford, Columbia, or Chicago. It’s somewhat silly to be discussing this when the odds are astronomical, which is somewhat what this next question deals with. I’ve taken the SAT twice: once in May and once in June. I did dreadful on the May test date as I had gotten back from a track meet at 11 the night before and received very little sleep. Therefore, I immediately signed up for the June SAT test date. All of my scores went up for the June testing (150+), but I know I can do better if I get the chance to do a little prep (review arcane math and grammar rules). Additionally, odds are that my score will go up for at least one of the sections since June was in a sense my first “true” sitting of the test. Schools advise not to apply ED/EA if your application is not completely ready. Should I try to improve M-750, CR-730, W-710 and just apply RD only? Or will Stanford overlook slightly low scores for SCEA?</p>

<p>Once again, thank you everyone so much for the insights, links (kyledavid80), and advice.</p>

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<p>You can take the test in October for Stanford’s SCEA. I don’t know if your scores will go up, but as they always say “The more, the better!” Remember though that a 2190 is in the middle 50% range of those accepted to all 3 schools, so your score isn’t weak. If you do want to retake it, you should have a plan on how you’re going to improve your scores though. Another aspect to consider about Stanford vs Columbia/UChi is that Columbia and University of Chicago are located in major US cities, Stanford is not. If you feel strongly (positive or negative) about city life, that may help you make a decision as to which school you like more. Personally I think for you Stanford would be more of an adventure, but that obviously the other schools are excellent as well.</p>

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<p>LOL - Stanford doesn’t lack for opportunities relative anyone (well, save perhaps Harvard, in some areas.) And I would argue, actually, that it’s better known internationally than Columbia. </p>

<p>But to answer your question – you can’t go wrong with either, academically or in terms of opportunities. </p>

<p>If you are going to seriously pursue a career in the international arena, you will most likely have to go to grad school anyway – that’s the school that will REALLY count. </p>

<p>My advice is, focus less on the minutia of what you think you want right now and more on the overall experience you want out of your undergraduate education. Both schools will get you where you want to go. But in very different ways. Now it’s up to you do decide which ‘way’ is for you.</p>

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<p>Cervantes, I haven’t taken the subject tests yet. Now, Stanford does not require subject tests, but they do recommend taking 2. I have a feeling that it’s better to take them than to retake the SAT. I’ve pondered whether my AP scores (five 5’s and a 3) could perhaps make up for not subject tests, but I think that it’s better safe than sorry -> taking the subject tests is probably the best thing to do, right?</p>

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<p>brendan, that’s great to hear about WJT Mitchell-- he’s an awesome guy with terrific course evals, but I decided his class was probably not the best place for somebody with almost no aesthetic philosophy experience…</p>

<p>We have a lot of fun putting together the Model UN conferences. We have an awesome time, and it’s great to hear that other people who are not us have fun at them too!</p>

<p>As far as living on the south side is concerned, I’d say it’s not a big deal. First, Hyde Park is a neighborhood littered with the bohemian- rich (college students, profs, grad students) and the superrich (Obama family) along with some-- but not very many-- middle income and lower-mid income families. The more you live in HP, the more you get used to living in and feeling comfortable in socioeconomically and ethnically diverse neighborhood, the more you get defensive when out-of-towners get uncomfortable because they see somebody with a different skin tone on the other side of the street. If you feel unsafe, there’s a great security and police force available, but many students don’t take advantage of them.</p>

<p>And as far as your SAT scores go, I’m sure you are aware that they are well within the a solid range for the schools you’re considering. I’ve seen from reading results threads that solid SAT scores usually correlate to an acceptance but do not cause an acceptance-- meaning, the kid with 700’s and a great all-around profile gets in, while the kid with 800’s and not as much to show might not. Your scores are also higher than mine were, and I’m a current U of C student.</p>

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<p>Yes, take the subject tests at first chance.</p>

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<p>You’re comparing disparate experiences – professors at Stanford who share your interests, and random students at Columbia.</p>

<p>I did read your entire first post. My reco is to contact professors at Columbia so that you’ve got a real basis for comparison.</p>

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<p>Re: Your SAT scores – the Writing portion will most likely be disregarded by the schools you’re discussing. They will use your essay(s) as a basis for determining your writing ability.</p>

<p>Your 1480 on the two parts that matter is at the midpoint for all the CHYMP schools, and above the midpoint for Stanford and Columbia.</p>