Interestin thread from SAT forum: number of APs

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<p>There is an interesting thread that has started on the SAT Preparation forum. I have reposted the original question for the parents' forum. </p>

<p>How many ap's does your school offer.... </p>

<p>I see people claiming 9 aps...my daugher's Catholic school has 2 aps (language / science) for sophmores, same for juniors and 5 for seniors (2 in same study area- history (all students MUST take religion all four years) - so most you can take realistically is 8 and usually ap calculas takes do not take ap world history, as it is, my daughter needs to take gym in the summer to get ap history next year as a junior!!!.....lots of honor classes, which are weighted....how do kids get all those ap classes in? or is there some slight exageration going on..</p>

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<p>To get started, I also repost my biased reply:</p>

<p>When it comes to AP, catholic schools tend to measure the relative importance of AP versus their curriculum. Catholic schools also look at the additional financial burden to families, offer fewer AP classes, and force the students enrolled in AP classes to take the exams. </p>

<p>On the other hand, many large public schools play fast and loose with the AP program: they offer numerous watered-down honor and AP classes and do not impose restrictions on enrollment or exams. From my vantage point, I always have to smile at schools that offer 20-30 AP to a group of students unable to crack 1000 on the SAT. </p>

<p>In a perfect world, colleges should be able to analyze the different curriculum, recalculate the ridiculously high GPA, and remove AP GPA boost that are not supported by a 4 or 5 on the exams. The reality is that this does not happen at most colleges that use simplistic acceptance models. </p>

<p>Sadly enough, most catholic schools hurt the chances of the students by insisting on tougher grading policies and adherence to a strong curriculum that does not allow many early electives.</p>

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<p>My daughter's performing arts high school offers zero APs, although they hope to in the future. It's a relatively new school though (first graduating class this year), so there have been many other challenges to deal with. However, if my daughter were attending her hometown high school, only one AP course would be available, and for most of the schools in our neck of the woods, that is one more than usual. The CC world is quite different from the place we call home!</p>

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<p>From my perspective some of the APs offered in my D's HS are worthless. Teachers go their own curricular direction and kids wind up having to use the prep books to even pass the test. Offering a ton of APs seems to be the goal, and the HS seems to let content slide.</p>

<p>25-30 years ago, my HS had about 5 or 6 APs total-- but they were all excellent classes. Virtually everyone passed with 4's or 5's because the students in them were there for <em>enrichment</em>, not to resume-pad. In my HS of 1600 students I think we had about 10 kids in AP english lit... only the kids who genuinely loved english, & the teacher was also genuinely excited/experienced. Thus it ran like a college discussion section and was very valuable; very similar to seminar in college. </p>

<p>At my D's HS there is a SES that considers AP de rigeur so the classes are big, the teaching less inspired, and the results are middling. APs are no longer evidence of intrinsic interest/ability; they are more like another hoop to jump through for admission to a good college.</p>

<p>I also agree with the comment on grade inflation above.</p>

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<p>DD's school offers 10 classes including AP Art, and students are registered for 11 exams/portfolio (?does AP Art have an exam?,AP Eng Comp exam after Honors Eng 11), 12 if they choose to take both the Gov't and Econ exams. This is more than almost any public school, because up until the last couple of years the public system was constrained by the ramifications of a court case. The publics had to offer "work arounds for APs, kids took an Honors class, then tried the exam, often with mixed results.</p>

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<p>my daughters inner city quasi magnet high school offers 40 AP classes in 13 subjects.
This school is an unofficial "next step" for students who attend gifted district middle school programs. While students from the gifted programs are expected to take AP classes, other students from other programs are encouraged as well.
My daughter did not participate in a gifted program, but she is planning on taking at least a few AP courses junior and senior year. While they offer the most AP courses in virtually any public high school in washington, the classes are still very full, some even having up to 37 in the class. I am crossing fingers that by time she takes AP, they will have gotten the overenrollment process worked out with district
Most if not all students take the AP tests, and while I can't find the test scores, the numbers of students attending college, particulary competive colleges seems to be to indicate that the students are well prepared</p>

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<p>our school had</p>

<p>ap comp sci
ap statistics
ap calculus
ap economics
ap biology
ap chemistry
ap physics</p>

<p>i think that was all.. and then we had honors level courses, academic level courses, and general level courses... most people who were going on to college took the academic level courses or honors level courses... and people who did like vo tech and stuff normally took the general level courses.. we also had this mst program where it was a hands on thing for three periods straight, of math science and technology.. and you did these hands on projects and assignments and stuff that dealt with different things.. i knew a lot of people that look that and they really enjoyed it.</p>

<p>we had a ton of different kinds of electives.. i posted in a visual arts thread about the amount of art courses we had.. we had a lot of really great electives and choices for courses. for example i took mythology as one of my english courses. i took a preschool course all three years of high school, and we prepared lesson plans and did all sorts of stuff about children and twice a week we'd have kids come in that we'd teach to and whatnot.. it was a very great program, and free to the kids in the neighborhood.. ran just like a regular preschool. also, we had languages such as spanish, italian, french, german, russian, japanese.. not many high schools offer japanese.</p>

<p>my roommate went to my junior high, and transferred to a priavte school for senior high (her parents both went there for senior high) and she told me about the lack of courses in her school... and i love that i got to take all sorts of interesting things at my public school.</p>

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<p>It is worth nothing that there are "only" 34 AP courses. </p>

<p>Because the Advanced Placement Program® (AP®) has an established reputation for high-quality, rigorous academic courses, a reputation that is recognized and respected by U.S. colleges and universities, some secondary schools have begun to attach the "AP" label to subjects (such as sociology or accounting) that are not part of the official portfolio of 34 Advanced Placement Program courses.</p>

<p>Courses receive their AP designation by following the content and curricular goals outlined in the AP Course Description booklets. A course that fails to follow the AP Course Description in a particular subject is not, and should not be designated, an AP course. Such a designation is an improper use of a College Board registered trademark.</p>

<p>AP Courses and Exams
Art History
Biology
Calculus AB
Calculus BC
Chemistry
Computer Science A
Computer Science AB
Macroeconomics
Microeconomics
English Language and Composition
English Literature and Composition
Environmental Science
French Language
French Literature
German Language
Comparative Government and Politics
United States Government and Politics
European History
United States History
World History
Human Geography
Latin Literature
Latin: Vergil
Music Theory
Physics B
Physics C: Electricity and Magnetism
Physics C: Mechanics
Psychology
Spanish Language
Spanish Literature
Statistics
Studio Art (Drawing Portfolio)
Studio Art (2-D Design Portfolio)
Studio Art (3-D Design Portfolio)</p>

<p>Source: <a href="http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/article/0,3045,149-0-0-21891,00.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/article/0,3045,149-0-0-21891,00.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>i must say that reading all the posts about the mediocre AP classes available in public schools makes the virtual high school AP classes look not too bad. My son is homeschooled and this year is taking AP Psych and AP Environmental Science through the Kentucky Virtual High School. i was concerned that this wasn't the best way to learn the material, but I though it was better than just a self-study. Next year, we move to Michigan and homeschoolers are allowed to take AP classes at the local schools in addition to the Virtual High School classes they offer....Makes me wonder what would be the better choice! i will be sure to check on student/teacher ratio as I had planned on enrolling him in AP Biology at the local high school. I can see how he would be better off taking a virtual class or a class at the local community college over an AP class of 37!!</p>

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<p>Wow, that was really helful.. I am the orignal poster on the other thread....my daughter's honors classes at her 1400 student catholic rep school are tough, every honors and ap classes has hard pre-recs, and both are weighted....I am getting a better sense now of what is going on out there....when people say they have taken several ap classes before 10th grade I wonder at the comparison to our honors classes....and believe me, at our school, honors is highly regarded....again thanks to all!!!!</p>

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<p>xiggi...I was told that unless you take the AP test, you could not call the class "AP ..." I have been to several homeschool meetings and parents there have the same idea...they say things like..."well, since he did extra work on this we are calling it AP ..." etc. We were told that the college board went to court to enforce the use of the AP designator and that we could only use the AP designation if our child actually took the test (which I was all for...not surprisingly many parents responded to that comment by saying that the test was too hard and their child wouldn't pass it). Just wondering why this wouldn't apply to public schools?</p>

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<p>Xiggi said: "From my vantage point, I always have to smile at schools that offer 20-30 AP to a group of students unable to crack 1000 on the SAT."</p>

<p>AMEN. I've been trying to tell our high school administration that we look foolish at best. Actually, I think people are laughing hysterically when they see our slick and polished brochure.</p>

<p>Our school lists on their brochure 21 AP classes. (Calc AB, BC, Eng. Lang, Eng Lit; Gov, Econ Micro, US Hist., Span/German/French/Latin 4, Chem, Bio, Physics, Comp Sci I and 2, Euro, Human Geo, Psych...and Envi Sci and Stats that have NEVER made but are always listed)</p>

<p>The average SAT is 946. The average student takes 0-1 AP exams. The average pass rate for most classes is 10% (number of students enrolled/students with 3,4,5)with the exception of the Calculus AB/BC which is about 85%. The average GPA for the top 10% of the class is over 104. Yes, you read that right. You get a 1.3 weight for AP classes and a 1.15 for Pre AP.</p>

<p>AP Econ Micro: 96 enrolled/12 exams taken/9 pass
AP Psych: at least two full sections 50+? /4 exams taken/0 pass
US History: over 300 enrolled/68 exams taken/not sure on the pass rate but I know there were only 3 "5s" this year
AP Physics: about 12 kids per year take the class, there has only been one Physics exam taken in the school's history. Same goes for the Chem.</p>

<p>oh..and our school picks up half the price of each exam, and you can lobby AP for a fee waiver.</p>

<p>This is the dilemma....you can forgo a lot of the AP "Lite" or poorly taught classes. But then your rank sinks like a brick and your "most rigorous" box cannot be checked, furthermore because 21 are offered, you better have quite a few listed or it looks funny. Or you can cram them all on your transcript, and try to self study yourself to some decent exam grades to validate your GPA. </p>

<p>Just one more game.....</p>

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<p>I forgot to mention, DD's school is private, college prep, AP exam fees are rolled into tuition, everyone must take exam except Gov't/Econ, if a student wants to take both exams, they must pay one extra registration.</p>

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<p>my daughters school graduated 27 National merit finalists last year, teh avg SAT score was 1205 and they took 900 AP exams. ( the school has about 1650 students)</p>

<p>her sisters private prep school didn't offer AP, and her sister didn't take any exams, while we appreciate the opportunity for the younger daughter to take AP courses, it was the diversity of the school and the dedication of the community that attracted us, not the high ( for an innercity school) SAT scores.</p>

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<p>I'm currently taking 7, and will have taken 11 by the end of high school...so I don't see how 9 unrealistic</p>

<p>my school offers somewhere around 16</p>

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<p>First, I have mentioned this before but last fall I read an interview with the director of admissions at Stanford who pointed out that the AVERAGE number of SATs taken by Stanford admits is only 5.</p>

<p>My daughter's (Catholic) high school offers 13 AP classes, plus honors classes in many other subjects. </p>

<p>However, they have a limit on the number of AP's they allow students to take - no more than 2 per year without special permission from the principle and guidance office. Admission to the AP classes is highly competitive, you must have taken honors English or other honors classes as pre-requisites, and have "A" averages in those. Plus you must get written recommendations from both your English teacher AND the honors teacher in the subject area. The classes are definitely rigorous and not for the faint of heart (50-100 pages of reading a NIGHT is not unusual in some of them) </p>

<p>In truth, only the very "top" students manage to take more than 4 or 5 AP's because of these rules and the rigor of how they are taught. Yet, the school has no problem getting people into the Ivies, STanford and the UC's every year. The school claims that 95% of AP students (who all are REQUIRED to take the test) pass, 85% receive scores of "4" or "5".</p>

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<p>just thought i would give this link.... <a href="http://www.csh.k12.ny.us/highschool/data/TheTopHighSchools.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.csh.k12.ny.us/highschool/data/TheTopHighSchools.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>this is a list of the top schools based on AP IB classes offered and passed. What I thought was interesting was that my high school (from way back when) was not listed... Shawnee Mission East in Prairie Village, Kansas. It lists tons of AP classes (not that they had them when I went there) and is considered one of the top school in the Kansas City Area. I email the author of the article and this was his response...</p>

<p>I wrote: I am a graduate of Shawnee Mission East High School in Prairie Village, KS. I believe it should be represented on your list. It is an IB school with numerous AP courses and many National Merit Finalists. Please check on this.</p>

<p>He responded: it is my favorite example of a sham AP school. it has lots of courses, but at least through 2002 did not encourage very many of its AP students to take the exam, which i think is crucial. I would assume the IB program is better about that, but smehs still only reached a feeble level of half a test for every graduating senior in 2002. you might want to encourage them to rethink their policy. ---jay</p>

<p>so it seems that we aren't the only ones that notice this problem!!</p>

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<p>I took 8 in high school... but i think my school offered maybe around 14 or so? they offered a lot of the sciences, but they required ALL freshman to take normal biology, etc. so i only took 2 of the AP sciences.. many people at my school took AP exams in classes the school didn't even offer - so I know of people who took probably 15 or more exams in their high school career (and did well on all of them)</p>

<p>however, my school/county is going IB crazy and they are offering less AP's and more IB courses, with extra after school sessions for people wanting to take the AP exam</p>

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<p>I realize that one of my earlier comments might be viewed as offensive to some. So allow me to rephrase, "On the other hand, many large public schools play fast and loose with the AP program" with a more appropriate, "Many large public schools in the area where I attended HS play fast and loose with the AP program". </p>

<p>I think that the range of competitiveness in public high school is quite diverse. It would not make much sense to compare high schools such as Stuyvesant, Malibu High, or New Trier with the large public schools in Texas, especially the ones located in Bubbaland. Before jumping up and down at that last remark, I use the term with a little note of endearment. I am quite certain that posters like Texastaximom understand that there is nothing malicious about the label. It is simply an assessment of schools where Friday night reigns supreme ... think football! :)</p>

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<p>Our hs currently offers 13 APs, of which 4 are languages and 1 is Art. Because of pre-reqs, until recently the most APs a student could take were 6: 2 during junior year (APUSH and a science) and 4 as a senior. The school recently added AP World History as an option for 10th graders because parents were concerned that taking "only" 6 APs made their students less competitive applicants to top schools. (Haven't seen any evidence of that myself .....)</p>

<p>The pass rates seem pretty good. In a school of 1500 students (1150-plus average SATs), 218 students took 345 exams, and 87 percent received scores of 3 or higher in 2002. Certain areas of teaching are particularly strong - no scores below 4 in AP Chem the year my oldest d took it. The Latin teachers strongly discourage anyone from taking AP Latin unless they think the student can pull at least a 4 on the exam (not that many marginal Latin students even consider going for it).</p>

<p>Interesting thread - I wasn't aware of the huge discrepancies in AP policies at different schools.</p>