Part of the answer for Duke may be its heavy reliance on binding early decision. That is probably only a small part of the answer, though, since the same is true of Penn and Columbia which have the same reliance. Both institutions have relatively low acceptance rates from Harvard-Westlake. Penn (12 out of 111) and Columbia (12 out of 82)
I think it’s a very popular option for ED2 from prep school when kids get deferred in ED1/EA from comparable schools.
1 Like
@comtnmom I am confused. Duke does not utilize ED2. Are you referring to UChicago? If so I think you are correct and that is why the University started employing it. Nevertheless, one hears the the acceptance rate is pretty low compared to ED1.
I was referring to U Chicago.
1 Like
We don’t really know the number who apply ED2, or the number deferred from ED1/EA who opt to switch to ED2, or the number of ED2 applicants accepted. So pinning down an admit rate for that round is pretty difficult. And while ED2 may generally be a popular option for prep schools, do we actually know whether UChicago specifically is attracting preppies in the ED2 round? I’ve heard that a whole lot come in via RD, but maybe this is something that varies by prep school. Or maybe there is a healthy dose of preppies in both admitted groups, but RD is just larger.
My comment is anecdotal based on the fact that my son was highly encouraged to do ED2 to either Chicago, Wash U or Vanderbilt. He decided against ED2, but many kids we know got into Chicago that way.
Both my kids got in via ED2. My D was in the first applicant pool that had the option for ED (she graduates in a couple of weeks), had been deferred from UChicago EA and switched her application from RD to ED2. My son was a new applicant deferred SCEA from an Ivy. Both had a very strong preference for UChicago, ranking it either tied with or right behind their first choice. Neither was full pay at the time they applied. Both attended a decent day prep, but not anything on the scale of “elite” that is mentioned here. The super smart kids we know who have applied have had mixed results. Most who applied non-binding didn’t get in; the ones who apply binding usually do. In every case of admission, I have thought it to be an excellent fit.
2 Likes
Congratulations on your daughter’s upcoming graduation.
I didn’t list Pomona earlier due to sample size, but with 13 top GPA applicants, it is interesting that nobody was accepted. Among colleges with 10+ high GPA applicants, the colleges with the lowest admit rate for high (3.8+ GPA) applicants were as follows. HW kids have average test scores of 717/737 SAT and 33 ACT, so I’d expect it is extremely likely that the top GPA kids also had top test scores, as well as outstanding course rigor.
Lowest Acceptance Rate Among 3.8+ GPA Kids with 10+ Applicants
1 . Pomona – 0/13 = 0%
2. Duke – 1/30 = 3%
3. Stanford – 4/51 = 8%
4. Harvard – 5/58 = 9%
5. Princeton – 3/26 = 12%
6. Penn – 8/54 = 15%
7. Northwestern – 8/47 = 17%
8. Amherst – 3/16 = 18%
9. Brown – 12/58 (tie) = 21%
10. MIT – 6/29 (tie) = 21%
Some of the highest admit rate colleges were also interesting.
Highest Acceptance Rate Among 3.8+ GPA Kids with 10+ Applicants
1 . Kenyon (tie) – 11/11 = 100%
1 . UC Davis (tie) – 11/11 = 100%
1 . UCSC (tie) – 11/11 = 100%
4. UCSB – 34/37 = 92%
5. Boston College – 8/10 = 80%
6. Georgetown – 21/27 = 78%
7. Michigan – 29/40 = 73%
8. UCSD – 33/48 = 69%
9. NYU – 20/30 = 67%
10. USC – 27/42 = 64%
Pomona again is a college which heavily depends on ED1 and ED2. 2 members of the H-W class of 2020 attend Pomona and 9 matriculated in the years between 2016-2020 so the omission of legacies (and recruited athletes) may really throw off the figures reported. https://students.hw.com/Portals/44/20-21profile.pdf
1 Like
Stanford looks similar. 7 matriculants for 2020, 35 total for 2016-2020. 4 in 2018-2020 from the non-legacy/athletes with +3.8 gpa. So that means very few unhooked students getting in.
I don’t think we know if the H-W chart includes first gen and BIPOC students (so some hooked), right? That makes the admissions numbers in that chart elevated as opposed to if the chart were truly only unhooked admissions.
The school has 55% of students self-identifying as of color, and 20% on financial aid. Don’t know about urm or first gen specifically.
1 Like
I would expect a lot of Stanford legacies among the H-W student body. Not so sure about Pomona.
Pomona doesn’t consider legacy in admission decisions, but a large portion of the class are athletes at Pomona.
Regarding ED, ED vs RD may be an important factor, but most of the other non-HYPSMC private colleges also have ED, and none have as extreme a difference in admit rate. For example, Williams gets a little over half their class via ED, yet the high GPA Williams applicants had a 5/11 = 45% admit rate. It’s possible that all the Williams kids applied ED, while all the Pomona kids applied RD. Or it may be a small sample size issue that would differ in other years. However, in this limited sample, Pomona and Duke stand out as outliers among the ED colleges.
2 Likes
For whatever it’s worth, the dean of admissions (or whatever his title is) at U Chicago spoke to parents at S21’s rigorous independent school. His message was we want more kids from California. (Also, we want students from your school because we know they perform well at U Chicago.)
N.b. grade inflation is not a problem at this high school…it would not be surprising that Chicago would accept someone with a 3.6-3.8; however that same kid would probably have a test score in the 99%.
1 Like
Fascinating data set.
I’ve noticed that UChicago has become more popular among students at UK private schools.
Interestingly, H-W students haven’t fared so well applying to top UK universities (Imperial - 0/1, KCL - 2/6, LSE - 0/3; Oxford - 1/3; UCL - 0/5; Cambridge - 0/1). Sample size is small but still a bit surprising.
They have been targeting specific regions for awhile now with significant draws from large states such as CA and TX. Both the W and SW regions have doubled their representation and the Midwest has shrunk from over a third of matriculants to under 25%. So it’s not surprising Nondorf would say that to your school if it’s a high-performing one. The more they nail down matriculates from the “tried and true” high schools, the more they can spend their time finding those under represented diamonds in the rough.
3 Likes
Difference between US “holistic” and UK “non-holistic” admissions philosophy perhaps.
3 Likes
Note that the vast majority of the 55% of “self=identifying students of color” are Asian, which will not have much positive impact on admission at the discussed colleges. Roughly 18% are URMs at HW (large increase over recent previous years), compared to ~75% URM in the county’s public schools.
Getting FA also isn’t a good indicator of being lower SES since HW tuition is $43k per year, and they offer generous FA. In the examples on their FA page a family with a $105k income receives a 97% of tuition FA grant, a family with a $150k income receives a 74% of tuition FA grant, and a family with a $219k income receives a 55% of tuition FA grant.
1 Like
I don’t think a school that limits FA offers to 20% of students can be considered “generous.”
1 Like
It depends on demographics of the students. For example, if the other 80% of students at HW had >$250k income, then it’s reasonable that they didn’t get a lot of FA. The HW students who receive FA seem to think it is generous, and students from families with incomes of >$200k at HW can get large FA grants.
For example, in the article at Barking Up the Money Tree – The Harvard-Westlake Chronicle as HW student who received FA grants + a $20k merit scholarship at Chicago says that HW was more generous with FA than Chicago. In the article, the dean of HW writes,
"The biggest issue that families here have is that we tend to be more generous with financial aid than colleges will be. So a number of families who got something from us expect something from colleges because they’re even more expensive than we are, but their standards are different, and they ask for more information.”
2 Likes